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  1. #97
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I would show you and explain to you number 1);
    There would be no need to show any of the others, your potential success would not depend on any of them.
    If it did, no one would ever join a brand new distributor and all those successful distributors, who were all brand new at one time or another, would never have made their success in this business.
    Noagenda's questions are reasonable for the purposes of due dilligence. Perhaps the sponsor's upline could provide the requested information, since they're more well established, no?

    It's all this secrecy and vagueness regarding the distributor's income and business statistics that turns me off to MLM. No one can demonstrate any measure of success. As such, we're all left to believe that any sponsor precenting an MLM opportunity is running a failing business (fake it until you make it again, common theme). No one seems to be able to show any tangible business success in MLM, just a few incomes from the handful of high earners that exist, but nothing from their own efforts.

    Your above post is a perfect example of the MLM double talk that turns off the less ignorant and more rational prospects.
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  2. #98
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Noagenda's questions are reasonable for the purposes of due dilligence. Perhaps the sponsor's upline could provide the requested information, since they're more well established, no?

    It's all this secrecy and vagueness regarding the distributor's income and business statistics that turns me off to MLM. No one can demonstrate any measure of success. As such, we're all left to believe that any sponsor precenting an MLM opportunity is running a failing business (fake it until you make it again, common theme). No one seems to be able to show any tangible business success in MLM, just a few incomes from the handful of high earners that exist, but nothing from their own efforts.

    Your above post is a perfect example of the MLM double talk that turns off the less ignorant and more rational prospects.
    Of course his questions are reasonable, as was my reply to him. I don't do financial claims and guesses of any kinds. What I can do is go through the compensation plan and show you factually, how much is paid when there are a certain number of people in your team.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  3. #99
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Of course his questions are reasonable, as was my reply to him. I don't do financial claims and guesses of any kinds. What I can do is go through the compensation plan and show you factually, how much is paid when there are a certain number of people in your team.
    That's only part of the picture. When you explain the comp plan and nothing more, you're essentially speaking only of hypotheticals, what's technically possible. Noaganda was requesting examples of the comp plan in a real world situation - the comp plan in actual practice. If the results are favorable, the upline should have no issue with providing the info that noagenda requested.

    I see it as perfectly reasonable to be provided with this information. To refresh, here's the original post by noagenda:

    "The Anti-MLMrs keep asking the Pro for personal financial information and claim that they don’t do it because it would show that they are not making any money. The Pro say it is for legal reasons. Taking on the role of a prospect trying to do his due diligence, I was wondering if a recruiter could provide me the following to verify real potential for making money:

    1) Show me the comp plan.
    2) Show me 3 months of personal sales volume
    3) Show me the number of people in your downline.
    4) Show me 3 members of your downline (anonymously) with their PV and downline
    5) Total 3 months sales volume of your team

    I hope I could take that info and review the comp plan to get a general idea of income potential. Thoughtful comments please"
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  4. #100
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You could find the income potential from a study of the compensation plan for one. In my opinion, you could join a seasoned professional or a brand new distributor and still have the same potential, especially if they are using a common, duplicable system, which in my opinion is the key. If the new distributor couldnt explain that system you would of course go further upline to find someone who could.
    Here you go again - you're using the words "could," "if," and "in my opinion." You're continuing to speak subjectively, in hypotheticals. noagenda is asking for factual data, not what could be, if certain conditions occur, that sort of thing.

    Factual data such as the sponsor's personsonal volume, the number of their downline, the distributorship's total volume etc. can show a real life example of the comp plan's efficacy, as well as the sponsor's competence. These figures also cannot be easily explained away. That, of course, works against the "fake it until you make it" distributor, which is most of them (90-99% depending on who you ask), statistically speaking. So, I can certainly understand why no one here chooses to divulge their business statistics. It only makes sense...
    MLM's Mission Statement:

    "The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

    "Almost everyone is not going to learn the skills and use them consistently over time, you would be better off joining Costco" -Dank111

  5. #101
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I would imagine all of them do, but probably not actuaries, which is what we were talking about. Forgotten already?
    If they employ accountants, how come you keep pretending that basic business numbers don't exist every time you are asked?

    We weren't talking about actuaries, I was. Forgotten already?

  6. #102
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle
    Why would I need to prove that on here?
    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Credibility, that's why.

    Money talks and bull$hit walks. You can pontificate about the virtues of MLM all day, and make any claims you want about your alleged success, but your claims and views need to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

    http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/...+grain+of+salt

    There's no way to tell if you're doing the "fake it until you make it" thing, or if you're the real deal. If you were the real deal, this secrecy and vagueness would be unnecessary and actually counterproductive to building an MLM network.

    Income claims can be made, after all. Haven't you posted the top 400 MLM distributor incomes several times? Those are income claims, no?
    Good point. In essence, Doyle is no better than a Nigerian scammer.

  7. #103
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    There's no way to tell if you're doing the "fake it until you make it" thing, or if you're the real deal. If you were the real deal, this secrecy and vagueness would be unnecessary and actually counterproductive to building an MLM network.
    Not necessary, I only prospect people who I know... I have a list of over 1500 people, each one of those knows upwards of 100 to 200 people so I never need to prospect strangers. These people I know me well enough to know I dont fake it till I make it and if they know me, like me and trust me and the business is something they believe can help them, then they'll join.
    The point I'm trying to make is that no one that I know will ask the kind of questions you ask, certainly nothing like ''how much do you or your team earn?''
    You and your friends on here asking it is irrelevant because you know and I know that you have no wish or intention of joining me, so whinge and cry all you wish, you ain't gettin' no numbers from me pal.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  8. #104
    James R's Avatar
    James R is offline I'm no crook...my upline told me to do it!
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Not necessary, I only prospect people who I know... I have a list of over 1500 people, each one of those knows upwards of 100 to 200 people so I never need to prospect strangers.
    HMMM...

    1500 X 200 = 300,000

    TTM, are you saying you have a potential recruiting pool of approx. 300,000 new MLM victims?

    I can see you working the LifeStyle Trainer math now on the recruiting trail....

    "If I get 300,000 and you get 300,000, we will own the entire planet earth and the people on it."

    You have my permission to use this script on the recruiting trail for your new mystery MLM.

    Good Luck!

    MLMer's are an interesting bunch when it comes to math and reality.
    Excited about Nopalea Cactus Juice? Learn how to make your own for FREE!
    Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


    Here's a good one....
    "That's why I changed my 'story'".
    Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

  9. #105
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    HMMM...

    1500 X 200 = 300,000

    TTM, are you saying you have a potential recruiting pool of approx. 300,000 new MLM victims?

    I can see you working the LifeStyle Trainer math now on the recruiting trail....

    "If I get 300,000 and you get 300,000, we will own the entire planet earth and the people on it."

    You have my permission to use this script on the recruiting trail for your new mystery MLM.

    Good Luck!

    MLMer's are an interesting bunch when it comes to math and reality.

    Now you might begin to understand the power of networking, every adult knows upward of 100 people, who all know 100 people, who all know 100 people and so on. Done correctly, you'll never run out of people to talk to and you'll never have to advertise or buy a lead.
    And don't be daft, of course you don't have to, or expect to sign up 300.000 people, 4 or 5 serious ones along with 4 or 5 customers will do.

    Here is another interesting take on it...six degrees of separation
    Six degrees of separation refers to the idea that everyone is on average approximately six steps away, by way of introduction, from any other person on Earth, so that a chain of "a friend of a friend" statements can be made, on average, to connect any two people in six steps or fewer
    Last edited by ChrisDoyle; 09-09-2012 at 04:42 AM.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  10. #106
    James R's Avatar
    James R is offline I'm no crook...my upline told me to do it!
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Now you might begin to understand the power of networking, every adult knows upward of 100 people, who all know 100 people, who all know 100 people and so on. Done correctly, you'll never run out of people to talk to and you'll never have to advertise or buy a lead.
    C'mon TAC....

    You said your 1500 people know 200 people, not 100. Big difference.

    Why are you running away from advertising your fantasic biz op this time?

    That doesn't make any sense.

    Buying leads (customers) like your sidekick Kactus Willy is also a shot in the dark. Agreed.
    Excited about Nopalea Cactus Juice? Learn how to make your own for FREE!
    Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


    Here's a good one....
    "That's why I changed my 'story'".
    Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

  11. #107
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Not necessary, I only prospect people who I know... I have a list of over 1500 people, each one of those knows upwards of 100 to 200 people so I never need to prospect strangers. These people I know me well enough to know I dont fake it till I make it and if they know me, like me and trust me and the business is something they believe can help them, then they'll join.
    The point I'm trying to make is that no one that I know will ask the kind of questions you ask, certainly nothing like ''how much do you or your team earn?''
    You and your friends on here asking it is irrelevant because you know and I know that you have no wish or intention of joining me, so whinge and cry all you wish, you ain't gettin' no numbers from me pal.
    So, how come you aren't making any Vitamark or Wikaniko residual income from any of those 1500 people or the one or two hundred people that each of them knows?

    I guess the reason we get no numbers from you other than the ones you like to pretend with is that there are no numbers.

  12. #108
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Now you might begin to understand the power of networking, every adult knows upward of 100 people, who all know 100 people, who all know 100 people and so on. Done correctly, you'll never run out of people to talk to and you'll never have to advertise or buy a lead.
    And don't be daft, of course you don't have to, or expect to sign up 300.000 people, 4 or 5 serious ones along with 4 or 5 customers will do.
    Here is another interesting take on it...six degrees of separation
    Let's see. 1500 x 100 x 100 x 100 x 100 = 20 times the population of the planet.

    We would need several more planets to make it to those last two degrees of your separation.

  13. #109
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    Re: PRO-MLM...BUt No CHECKS...WHY????

    Quote Originally Posted by Once Upon a Time View Post
    So, how come you aren't making any Vitamark or Wikaniko residual income from any of those 1500 people or the one or two hundred people that each of them knows?

    I guess the reason we get no numbers from you other than the ones you like to pretend with is that there are no numbers.
    The numbers might be negative.

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