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  1. #1
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    For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Christ Jesus is the Messiah, and the Son of God. Believe in him! He died for our sins, and rose again the third day, that all those that believe in him should not perish but have life eternal. He is the Saviour, even salvation.


    It is written in The Gospel according to John Chap. 4 : 21:

    Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

    26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.





    The Book of Revelation Chap. 22 : 16 states:

    I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


    Acts Chap. 13 : 22 states:

    And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

    23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus




    The Book of Psalms Chap. 72 : 18 states:

    Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.

    19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.

    20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.



    Reference:

    The Book of Isaiah Chap. 11 : 1 states:

    And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

    2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

    4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth:and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.



    10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.




    The Epistle of Paul to the Romans Chap. 15 : 8 states:

    Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

    9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

    10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

    11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

    12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

    13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.





    COPYRIGHT UNITED SYNAGOGUE - LONDON & WAS PROVIDED BY
    BRIJNET


    Some Thoughts on Jewish Music for Shabbat Shirah
    ------------------------------------------------
    by Rev. Geoffrey Shisler, Minister, Bournemouth Hebrew Congregation


    The superscriptions for the Psalms, that is the opening phrase that most of
    them have as an introduction, such as Lamnatzeiach Mizmor LeDavid, Shir
    HaMa'alot and so on, are interpreted in various ways by our Chachamim. Two
    of them, Mizmor LeDavid, 'A Song of David' and LeDavid Mizmor 'To David a
    Song', appear to be the same thing. And yet the Rabbis teach us that they
    have different implications.

    The Midrash explains that when a Psalm begins with the words 'LeDavid
    Mizmor' this teaches us that the Holy Spirit first rested on King David and
    then he was inspired to compose a Psalm. But 'Mizmor LeDavid' means that he
    began to sing and this caused the Holy Spirit to descend.



    The Book of Psalms Chap. 110 : 1 states:

    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

    3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.




    Before Abraham was, Christ is, and the head of every man is Christ, he is Lord, through whom all things were made. Seems even David acknowledged him.



    The Gospel according to Mark Chap. 12 : 35 states:

    And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David?

    36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


    12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.



    The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians Chap. 11 : 3 states:

    But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


    The Gospel according to John Chap. 8 : 58 states:

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



    Christ Jesus is the Son of God, and was the son of man, being born from the virgin Mary.



    It is written that Christ said in The Gospel according to John Chap. 5 : 25:


    Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

  2. #2
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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    The promise made to the fathers was the promise concerning isaac, who was born of promise to Abraham.

    Notice that there was nothing Abraham could do to bring about the birth of isaac. Sarah could not have children, so Abraham sought to fulfill the promise by his own efforts, using Sarah's handmaid, Hagar.

    But God told Abraham, that he, God, would bring this promise to pass. In genesis 21:1-3, we see that God made the whole thing to come to pass.

    Paul goes further to explain that this promise would be to those born to Abraham according to promise(Galatians 3:29), and that those of the promise would be born as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28).

    You will also notice in Romans 8:29-30 that those who are the children of Giod are foreknown, predeistined, called, and glorified. Isaac fit all these definitions. He was foreknown, and predestined to be born to Abraham, and he was later called to perform the work which God had ordained.

    As Jesus pointed out in John 6:44, no one can come to him unless called by the father. While salvation was of the jews, it was throuhg the promise made to Abraham, of which Isaac was a type. As Paul points out in Romans 9:7 "In Isaac shall your seed be called".

    Paul further explains in the next verse that "it is not the children of the flesh(israel) who are the children of God, but the CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are reckoned as descendants.

    And in Romans 9:11, Paul further explains, "Though they were not yet born, a nd having done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue. Not because of works, but because of his call."

    In other words, God is "calling people who are born in the same fashion as Isaac, called according to God;'s plan and not man's, and no human organization can represent this group of special children.

    Thgis cancels all religions, all human organizations, all human powers, anything that humans would use to control other humans.

    The simple fact is, we cannot prove there is a God, we cannot decide to become like God, because there is no capacity within our brains by which we can imitate God. This is fully consistent with Romans 8:7 and with Godel's theorem in mathematics. There is no process by which truth(Big "T") can be completely discovered, which means that all such attempts to organize in the name of an absolute God will result in the infinite speciation of religions, all of them in error.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians Chap. 3 : 6 states:

    Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    so a more practical note,what's the relationship of drawn by the father and christ be formed in you!?and if love is in the air,are the hills alive with music!?and where exactly are the "gates" of hell located!?and what are the seals that are broken!?the seal over the gates of hell!?did either of you see the sci-fi horror movie(1983)called "the keep"!?where a sealed cave!?entrance is opened!?or "time bandits" where hell is just a matter of busting an invisible glass wall that is protecting/reflecting their normal reality/existence!?: :crazy1: :spin2: hehe!!.....just askn....
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by muarader64 View Post
    The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians Chap. 3 : 6 states:

    Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.


    Certainly no point to disagree with that. But what was Abraham promised? That his seede would be gkiven the kingdom of God, here on earth. And how waas it to be fulfilled? Throught the promise made which Isaac was to be representative. "In Isaac shall thy seed be called".

    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


    What faith? Whatever faith they choose? Just believe? That would be very hard to believe, in light of what Jesus warned in Matthew 24, to "take heed that no man deceivre you for many will come in my name."

    It would matter what you believe, since only the truth will make you free.

    [quote8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


    And how were they to be blessed? By a bunch of human beings going around and preaching what made sense to them? And hw would we know if they were telling us the truth, since as Romans 8:7 says, our natural minds are enmity agfainst God and cannot be subject to God? Would you argue that the Holy Spirit made us understand? But if our natural minds are enmity against God, how do we know we have the Holy Spirit? Especially since there are over 30,000 cults, sects, and denominations claiming to have the Holy Spirit?

    The fact is, if our natural minda are enmity against God, then any time we preach and try to persuadwe others to believe, they will believe what their own minds suggest that they believe, and they will begin to organize in that fashion, producing an infinity of religious ideas.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


    What faith? What truth? Point me out the truth that will show who those people are.


    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


    How is that blessing to come? If there are millions of people who never heard of Christ, will their faith save them? Aren't they doomed to go to hell, according to your beliefs, since they never heard of Christ and therefore cannot choose Christ? Wouldn't they then, by your beliefs, be predestined to go to hell? And if God is all knowing, he would know this in advance, as well as those who would choose him, so there would be no need to put us in this spot when we have no choice.


    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    the promise was quite simple. God predestined Isaac to be born, foreknew Isaac, and called him for that purpose, in just the same fashion as he did with those others born of that promise(Romans 9:29-30, Romans 9:16 through rest of chapter). This faith, however, was not their own faith, nor their own works, nor even of their own abilities(Ephesians 2:8-10). They were individuals, through history, selected just as Isaac was, and the faith of Abraham and God's faithfulness would make it so.

    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


    Precisely, and what was the word of promise? "About this time will I return, and Sarah shall have a son(Romans 9:9)".

    That son would be born in the same fashion as other "sons" would be born, predestined, foreknown, and called. Galatians 4:28: "Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise".

    If you ain't born of that promise, you ain't it.

    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


    Yes, believe what? Out of the 30,000 contradicting religions, what are they to believe?

    .

    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


    You mean all those who are able to accept Jesus, right? Forget those who never heard of him, they're going to hell, right? Forget those who honestly follow their sense of reason and ask for proof, they're going to hell, right? We must believe in some fractured fairy tale told about something which no one can agree on, and believ it against all evidence, and we'll be saved, right?


    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


    Precisely, and if we are to be "saved", it cannot be by our efforts to know the truth, because we can't know it. Either the sacrifice of Jesus covered all people at the time of his sacrifice, or God has obviously selected a few in his "love" to go to heaven while the rest go to hell.

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    And Paul defines the promise quite well in Romans 9.

  6. #6
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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Arguing over the Bible is like arguing over who has more powers, Superman or the Silver Surfer.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Arguing over the Bible is like arguing over who has more powers, Superman or the Silver Surfer.
    Silver Surfer, hands down.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Well played. ;-)
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Arguing over the Bible is like arguing over who has more powers, Superman or the Silver Surfer.
    You are exactly right. Either God is doing something we don't and can't understand, or God is one ascrewed up individual.

    But Romans 8:7 pretty much verifies your statement. It's a waste of time to convice either believers or non-elievers, which means that if there is a God, it's pretty much irrelevant for us to argue about it. Again, Romans 8:7.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    What is screwed up is, believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

    A book written by man, translated by man, and then man makes the decision what books are allowed to be within the Bible...is the inerrant word of God?

    How is that even a logical argument???

    If you have a faith, then good for you...run with it. BUT, don't believe it is better than anothers, or push it on others.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    If a book written by a man presents a truth that is consistent with the physical evidence, we can say that it is true, but we cannot say it is the inerrant word of God. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, or Godel's incompleteness theorem, or Einstein;s theory of relativity, all these point out truth about this universe as far as we can yet understand, but none would claim to be the inerrant word of God.

    The fact is, we can grasp truth, but not all truth, nor can one system of thought represent all truth.

    In any set of conjoined propositions, if one propositrion is false, then the whole set is false.

    That's why the bible does not establish any truth that can be determined or controlled by man. There is nothing within the teachings that leave any form of construxction available to man. Either there is a God doing it, or not.

    In either case, it cannot matter, as far as human knowledge is concerned.

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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    [/U]

    And how were they to be blessed? By a bunch of human beings going around and preaching what made sense to them? And hw would we know if they were telling us the truth, since as Romans 8:7 says, our natural minds are enmity agfainst God and cannot be subject to God? Would you argue that the Holy Spirit made us understand? But if our natural minds are enmity against God, how do we know we have the Holy Spirit? Especially since there are over 30,000 cults, sects, and denominations claiming to have the Holy Spirit?

    The fact is, if our natural minda are enmity against God, then any time we preach and try to persuadwe others to believe, they will believe what their own minds suggest that they believe, and they will begin to organize in that fashion, producing an infinity of religious ideas.

    [/SIZE][/U][/B]

    What faith? What truth? Point me out the truth that will show who those people are.


    [/U]

    How is that blessing to come? If there are millions of people who never heard of Christ, will their faith save them? Aren't they doomed to go to hell, according to your beliefs, since they never heard of Christ and therefore cannot choose Christ? Wouldn't they then, by your beliefs, be predestined to go to hell? And if God is all knowing, he would know this in advance, as well as those who would choose him, so there would be no need to put us in this spot when we have no choice.




    the promise was quite simple. God predestined Isaac to be born, foreknew Isaac, and called him for that purpose, in just the same fashion as he did with those others born of that promise(Romans 9:29-30, Romans 9:16 through rest of chapter). This faith, however, was not their own faith, nor their own works, nor even of their own abilities(Ephesians 2:8-10). They were individuals, through history, selected just as Isaac was, and the faith of Abraham and God's faithfulness would make it so.

    [/B]

    Precisely, and what was the word of promise? "About this time will I return, and Sarah shall have a son(Romans 9:9)".

    That son would be born in the same fashion as other "sons" would be born, predestined, foreknown, and called. Galatians 4:28: "Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise".

    If you ain't born of that promise, you ain't it.

    [/SIZE][/U][/B]

    Yes, believe what? Out of the 30,000 contradicting religions, what are they to believe?

    .



    You mean all those who are able to accept Jesus, right? Forget those who never heard of him, they're going to hell, right? Forget those who honestly follow their sense of reason and ask for proof, they're going to hell, right? We must believe in some fractured fairy tale told about something which no one can agree on, and believ it against all evidence, and we'll be saved, right?




    Precisely, and if we are to be "saved", it cannot be by our efforts to know the truth, because we can't know it. Either the sacrifice of Jesus covered all people at the time of his sacrifice, or God has obviously selected a few in his "love" to go to heaven while the rest go to hell.

    [U][B]

    And Paul defines the promise quite well in Romans 9.

    It doesn't have to be complicated. Just believe:


    The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians Chap. 15 : 1 states:

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



    The Epistle of Paul to the Ephesians Chap. 2 : 8 states:


    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    Salvation is a gift from God, given through Christ Jesus. He is the bread of life, even eternal life, and gives it to all whom have faith in him. One is saved by grace, getting something they neither worked for, nor deserves. God is worthy of praise.


    It is written that Christ Jesus said in The Gospel according to Luke Chap. 6 : 47:

    Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.


    Acts Chap. 2 : 38 states:

    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.




    It is written that Christ Jesus said in the Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 11 : 27:

    All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


    Acts Chap. 4 : 10 states:

    Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.




    It is the Holy Spirit that convicts a man of sin.



    It is written that Christ Jesus said to his disciples in The Gospel according to John Chap. 16 : 7:

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.






    Ecclesiasticus Chap. 2 : 1 states:

    My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation.
    2 Set thy heart aright, and constantly endure, and make not haste in time of trouble.
    3 Cleave unto him, and depart not away, that thou mayest be increased at thy last end.
    4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate.
    5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity.
    6 Believe in him, and he will help thee; order thy way aright, and trust in him.



    The Epistle of James Chap. 1 : 2 states:

    My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
    3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.



    The Book of Jeremiah Chap. 17 : 9 states:

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


    It is written that John the Baptist said of Christ in The Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 3 : 11:

    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.



    It is written that Christ Jesus said, when he spoke concerning Jezebel, in The Book of Revelation Chap. 2 : 23:

    And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.




    The First Epistle of Peter Chap. 4 : 12 states:

    Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

    13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that,when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.




    The First Epistle of Peter Chap. 2 : 2 states:

    As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
    3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.



    The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians Chap. 3 : 5 states:

    Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
    6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
    7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
    8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
    9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
    10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.




    Those whom have faith in Christ have become joint-heirs to the Kingdom of God, through him.



    The Book of Psalms 100 : 3 states:

    Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
    4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
    5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
    Last edited by muarader64; 08-23-2008 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #13
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    Jun 2006
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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    What is screwed up is, believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

    A book written by man, translated by man, and then man makes the decision what books are allowed to be within the Bible...is the inerrant word of God?

    How is that even a logical argument???
    .
    Actually it is book written by man trying to interpret what they believed is word of God. Then another group of people decided that only few of original writings are worthy for the Bible. Anything with sex, enjoyment and powerful women did not cut it. Than came interpreters and Popes that cut Bible even more. And so on.

    How anybody would take Bible as 100% word of God, I do not know.

  14. #14
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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    maybe the bible is like a hologram!?1 little piece when shined on with the light of objective understanding and sincere questioning,reveals the whole picture!?certainly other things work that way!?it strikes me that that while the argument against religion is that most of it is not true as in visible physical fact and yet you can say the same thing for technology and science!?alot of science fiction has not come true yet!?why!?it has not been discovered!?so for man,discovery is the secret of success!?and the bible uses the phrase,my father has revealed it to you!?question is,what kind of eyes do you need to see truth!?how do you acquire those eyes!?it should not be any different than any other kind of curiosity!?you are drawn to something!?if the natural mind cannot hold truth,at least it can show an interest in acquiring it!?therefore if a god exists,he would not play tricks on man!?if religion is supposed to represent truth,he would see to it that truth would be findable in/thru religion!?does it matter what religion!?only 1 way to find out!?life is a maze that may have a way out!?only by knowingly choosing an identity by educated calculation or accidental/intentional association is there any chance of real success!?now the question i have is,is truth separateable from existence!?can a man be psychologically blind to the material/physical world!?and still function as a human!?walk by faith as they say!?has anyone ever enquired(about themselves) as to the difference between physical sight and psychological sight!?is this where the maze is found!?we spend our lives learning to deal with the maze!?the more successful we are,the more we want to stay in it!?the less successful we are,the more we want out!?is death the way out!?it could all depend on how "1"(true individual!?) defines succes.....or stops defining it!?: :crazy1: :sun_smiley: hehe!!....just askn.....
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  15. #15
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    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by muarader64 View Post
    It doesn't have to be complicated. Just believe:
    That's always a nice answer. Just believe. Except people don't do that, because they can't. You cater to those poor folks who are going to be suckers for any con man that comes along "preaching Christ" in spite of Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:23. You allow no process of critical thought, no process by which any person may become responsible for him/her self.



    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
    Even accepting that as truth, it tells us nothing about who is speaking the truth, who is a counterfeit and who is not, as Jesus warned us.




    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    You missed one part above, "which God hath before ordained", referring us back to Romans 8:29-30.


    Salvation is a gift from God, given through Christ Jesus. He is the bread of life, even eternal life, and gives it to all whom have faith in him. One is saved by grace, getting something they neither worked for, nor deserves. God is worthy of praise.


    Yes, a completely free gift that no man can manipulate, nor are we told to give money to any person who claims to represent Christ. Because it is free, we are not to follow any person, as Jesus stated.


    Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth
    them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
    And then he contradicted himself by saying that no man could come to him unless the father drew that man.


    Acts Chap. 2 : 38 states:

    Then Peter said unto them, 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    And Paul plainly stated in Romans 9 and in Galatians 4:28 that those born of promise are those born as Isaac. This cancels all human interopretation of religion.




    All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
    learn of me
    ; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
    But you're not telling people to learn. You're telling people that all they have to do is believe, no matter what they believe, or how little sense it makes, as long as they rouse themselves into some kind of emotional frenzy and "convert" others.






    It is the Holy Spirit that convicts a man of sin.


    No, men have a sense of guilt for wrongdoing. It takes no mystical spirit to cause such a sense of guilt. There are religions other than christianity in which people teach guilt/remission of sins. There are more than 30,000 christian religions claiming to have a contradictory Holy Spirit that "convicts" them of sin.



    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
    And apparently the truth is a mass of contradictory beliefs that leave any thinking man with a sense of futility and outright hatred of the junk you teach.








    My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation.
    2 Set thy heart aright, and constantly endure, and make not haste in time of trouble.
    3 Cleave unto him, and depart not away, that thou mayest be increased at thy last end.
    4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate.
    5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity.
    6 Believe in him, and he will help thee; order thy way aright, and trust in him.
    This can be applied to any religion other than christianity.





    My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
    3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
    Again, all religions teach this.




    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
    Precisely, and it is therefore necessary that people know how to determine truth, to develop the ability to think.



    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
    This is utterly meaningless in any context of truth. Any religion promises a "spirit of truth" for its accolytes.

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
    So, if we challenge this on the basis of logic, we go to hell. That sounds like a real nice God you have there.




    And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    And this tells us absolutely nothing about truth. All religions usually have a promise of a God coming again to reward his true believers. But who are they?




    Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:


    Again, same argument. Believers are told to hold fast to their faith, no matter what might come to show them the flaw in their beliefs.

    13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that,when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
    Come on, already. Show me something that sets your belief apart from any other non-christian religion.





    As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:


    Become little, trusting children. Do exactly what your God fearing preachers tell you. Never turn away from them, and convert others to this confusing nonsense. You offer nothing of any substance. Any thinking person would laugh at you and your superstitious Jesus.




    Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
    6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
    7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
    Precisely. And God decides, not man, what is going on, and what the increase is to be. Men cannot offer any truth that sets their belief apart from any other belief.
    10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    Exactly. No man can claim any follower, no man has any special understanding of the truth(Romans 8:7) and no man can claim authority as representatives of Christ. It is only God who decides who are his(Romans8:29-30)







    Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves


    Well, there you are. Men do not establish any truth of God, nor can men offer any truth that sets them apart from any other religion. If we did make ourselves, we could decide on a true religion and a true God. But if we could do that, we would be God.
    Last edited by doojie; 08-24-2008 at 05:51 AM. Reason: changing typos

  16. #16
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    Sep 2004
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    26,309

    Re: For, and to the Jew! (and others)

    you have said/proposed that organized religion cannot have/be a system method by which an individual can find truth/absolute truth!?but this is looking at it with the natural mind!?existing in the natural universe!?if it is true that man cannot find god with his natural mind!?and god is also the chooser of those he favors with his knowledge,what is the missing "link" here!?it has to be the christ!?the mind of christ,the replacement mind for our natural mind!?a mind that knows and obeys god!?and isn't KNOWING,the SAME as OBEYING!?so does/can religion hold the key to change of mind!?i dont see why not!?: :crazy1: :sun_smiley: hehe!!......just askn...
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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