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Thread: Morals, Ethics

  1. #17
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Slavery is wrong in any context. It is practiced, however, in more complex forms using propaganda to enslave people to national interests, which doesn't make it right.

    Morals and ethics seem relative because there is no mechanical or mathematical formula for such things, as there are no equations for beauty, truth. and happiness.

    The basic test is, if no one is harmed, then do it. That's why there must be a n increasing feedback system so that people can say "ouch!".

    Also, in slavery you might think of the golden rule. If you happened to be a slave, how would you like it?

    Or place yourself in the situation of a jew in WW2 Germany during the holocaust.

    Empathy might sum that up.

    The large3r the organization, the more likely there will be temptations to bad ethics and morals. A system such as a corporation or government, driven only by basic rules of profit maximization, has no empathy, except that provided by those who are a part of it.

    Even in religions, when people join large religions, they may undergo what Eric Hoffer calls "estrangement from the self", that is, they consider their individual lives as less important than the organization to which they belong.

    A history of the early catholic church or other such religions would show the results of that.

    If morals and ethics were subject to defineable rules, those same rules could be programmed into a computer from algorithms, and machines could do anything morally that humans are supposed to do.

    Computers could be equally sons of God. And, if we could define the "Holy Spirit", that, too, could be programmed into computers so that we would have computer sons of God with qualities of the Holy Spirit.

    In morals and ethics, the issue always boils down to YOU.

  2. #18
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by howdy View Post
    Made my brain hurt for a little with this post. After thinking about this for a bit. I would have to say that humanity is decent and good. Except for the reich wingers. Not their fault though. So much was put against them. The reich wing knows how easy it is to brainwash people. Though this is America, and at least alot of us have not fallen pray to evil that is the reich wing party. Though some have. What a shame to have to live among such freedom hating, constitution hating people like this. We have to live with people that hate every good thing this country stands for. I am very angry at you reich wingers for destroying the country that I love. You reich wingers are nothing but a bunch of week minded fools. I have a question for you reich wingers.... Why do you hate America so much?

    Whoa.. huh? I'm not following you... Where did reich wingers come from? (do you mean right wingers?) And is that the liberal wing or the conservative wing? American politics is too confusing.

    I thought we were discussing the difference between morals and ethics.
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  3. #19
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    Whoa.. huh? I'm not following you... Where did reich wingers come from? (do you mean right wingers?) And is that the liberal wing or the conservative wing? American politics is too confusing.

    I thought we were discussing the difference between morals and ethics.
    Yeah I know. My bad. Sorry about that. I have no idea what happened to my ethics there.

  4. #20
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by howdy View Post
    Yeah I know. My bad. Sorry about that. I have no idea what happened to my ethics there.
    Oh Okay :spin2:

    No worries
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

  5. #21
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by howdy View Post
    Made my brain hurt for a little with this post. After thinking about this for a bit. I would have to say that humanity is decent and good. Except for the reich wingers. Not their fault though. So much was put against them. The reich wing knows how easy it is to brainwash people. Though this is America, and at least alot of us have not fallen pray to evil that is the reich wing party. Though some have. What a shame to have to live among such freedom hating, constitution hating people like this. We have to live with people that hate every good thing this country stands for. I am very angry at you reich wingers for destroying the country that I love. You reich wingers are nothing but a bunch of week minded fools. I have a question for you reich wingers.... Why do you hate America so much?
    Both parties brainwash people to the same degree (if you want to call it brainwashing)- that's how they get elected. Don't be naive. Liberals must have gotten to you first and it looks like their propaganda was very effective. It is important to realize that both sides are not being completely honest so that you are able to make rational decisions instead of becoming a tool for one party or the other, puttering around the internet making posts like this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by doojie View Post
    Slavery is wrong in any context. It is practiced, however, in more complex forms using propaganda to enslave people to national interests, which doesn't make it right.

    The basic test is, if no one is harmed, then do it. That's why there must be a n increasing feedback system so that people can say "ouch!".

    Also, in slavery you might think of the golden rule. If you happened to be a slave, how would you like it?

    In morals and ethics, the issue always boils down to YOU.
    Why is slavery wrong in any context? Why should Chief Ktulu care if someone else is harmed? If he's in a pretty strong position, he might not worry about the Golden Rule because he knows that what he's doing unto others won't be done unto him. If the issue all boils down to HIM and he doesn't like the idea of not having slaves for his tribe, he will most likely disregard the Golden Rule unless it is made out of real gold that you're using to buy his slaves' freedom.

  6. #22
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by dougsnuggler View Post
    You don't necessarily have to ask anyone. Maybe it's all based on how you feel.
    i was always gonna start a thread on that 1!?be true to yourself,your feelings,and you can do no wrong!?asking alfie means to sing the song!?or lip sinc!?or mind sinc!?stay on my case,iiiiii... like it!?: :spin2: :crazy1: hehe!!....just askn....
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  7. #23
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by dougsnuggler View Post
    Why is that wrong? Why should you care? Is there any reason you shouldn't just play along with the whole thing if it benefits you?
    i'm tryin to follow you but it aint comin natural!?and this is what i am seeing about this statement of yours!?it's really 2 questions that have no reasoning!?for the second you reason them you lose your freedom!?you lose your graceful innocent immortal existence!?WOW!?.......i'm really proud of myself for thinkin up that 1!?: :spin2: :cwm14: hehe!!.....just askn.....
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  8. #24
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    i'm tryin to follow you but it aint comin natural!?and this is what i am seeing about this statement of yours!?it's really 2 questions that have no reasoning!?for the second you reason them you lose your freedom!?you lose your graceful innocent immortal existence!?WOW!?.......i'm really proud of myself for thinkin up that 1!?: :spin2: :cwm14: hehe!!.....just askn.....
    I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to say. But if you assume that we all have a graceful, innocent, immortal existence (which is a safe bet) then you can make a pretty good case for trying to do right.

  9. #25

    Re: Morals, Ethics

    I came across this BBC article today regarding moral and ethics in a medical setting.

    The minefield of medical morals

    It is quite interesting.
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  10. #26
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by dougsnuggler View Post
    I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to say. But if you assume that we all have a graceful, innocent, immortal existence (which is a safe bet) then you can make a pretty good case for trying to do right.
    i tend to relish communication problems when there is no economic/personal gain involved!?for it means the parties involved all have a chance to learn something new and even come to a common understanding!?requiring no verbal continuation!?::spin2::crazy1::madgo:hehe!!!...just askn.....
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  11. #27
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Dougsnuggler, chief Ktulu may enjoy slaves because he doesn't have to worry about the golden rule, but his need for slaves or gold doesn't make it right.

    Assuming you were one of the slaves chief Ktulu sold for the gold, I think I could make a safe bet you wouldn't think it was right, either.

    In a historical setting, we can look at the United States. The Constitution was a pretty good document, as documents go, but it didn't mention slavery, and it didn't mention slavery because the original policy of the Constitution, as stated in the 10th amendment was, if the power is not mentioned in the Constitution, it was left to the states or the people. The states, therefore, could maintain slaves if they wished.

    The Constitution endorsed slavery simply by not mentioning it, using the same logic as you did.

    Where was Lincoln;s Constitutional authority to free slaves? Acting as president, his powers were only those listed in the Constitution. So, he claimed a higher moral power, and his higher moral power was named in his most famouis speech, the Gettysburg address. It began "fourscore and seven years ago...."

    A little math tells us that 87 from 1863 is 1776, not 1789, when the Constitution was ratified.

    Lincoln based his authority on a time when there was no government and no office of president, while the colonies were just declaring their independence. So Lincoln's government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" was no government at all.

    He used an authority that did not exist, to free slaves that were perfectly legally enslaved, and paved the way for the 14th amendment, so nine people wearing black dresses could tell us all how to live our lives and take away our freedoms one by one.

    Without slavery, the states could still be sovereign and act as a check on the federal government, as intended. The founders knew it was there. George Mason, a Virginian and slaveowner himself, refused to sign the Constitution because he saw it all coming.

    Slavery has a way of biting you on the ass, and usually in ways you never expect.

  12. #28
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    so how can morality and ethics EVER PREVAIL!?or is it impossible!?since evil/hate has no respect/consideration for either!?or does biblical advice show a way to circumvent the problem!?of course this circumvention is dependent on the willingness to self sacrifice if necessary and the faith to carry it out!?to me,it's all tied up in the phrase,"do not resist evil"!?and what it means in terms of self defense and aggressive forgiveness!?: :crazy1: :sun_smiley: hehe!!....just askn....
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  13. #29

    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Morals and Ethics are synonymous; however, morals describes the actions of one, the decisions of one that personally affect any one or any multitude. Ethics is described as being a higher standard than morals because it is held as the rule of right with groups of one or more.

    If a dad lets his 10 year kid drink alcohol and smoke a joint , he has bad morals.

    If that dad is the CEO of a company who knowing sells or distributes a dangerous or just bad product, he also has bad ethics and his entire company will be said to be unethical.

    The simple difference is that we hold one as accountability for individuals and the other for groups of people that make up a single company.

  14. #30
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by PaceMyself View Post
    Morals and Ethics are synonymous;
    That's not what the dictionary says...
    Quote Originally Posted by PaceMyself View Post
    however, morals describes the actions of one, the decisions of one that personally affect any one or any multitude. Ethics is described as being a higher standard than morals because it is held as the rule of right with groups of one or more.

    If a dad lets his 10 year kid drink alcohol and smoke a joint , he has bad morals.

    If that dad is the CEO of a company who knowing sells or distributes a dangerous or just bad product, he also has bad ethics and his entire company will be said to be unethical.

    The simple difference is that we hold one as accountability for individuals and the other for groups of people that make up a single company.
    Anyone can find reasons why a person or people are immoral or have bad ethics, though in many cases it is highly subjective and based on you're own personal views.

    For instance, if an old man on his deathbed wants to give a good kidney to their child who will still die before them, is it immoral or of bad ethics to allow the old man to die on the table when they take out the kidney and save the youger kid who will go on to live for another 20-30 years? or is it better to let the child die first and have the old man die two months later?

    There is a lot of grey areas where people would say killing the old man, even by his wishes is the worst evil, whereas many other people would say that it is better to go with the option that allows for MORE life...

    Also, can you think of an example of good morals, but bad ethics or vice versa? That really differentiates the two.
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  15. #31
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    what is the basis of morals and ethics!?what is the cause!?is happiness the cause/goal!?if the mind/emotions of man are to be taken as a FORCE!?should a man ever go against his feelings/thoughts!?the strongest/dominant 1's i mean!?that's really a form of mental/actual suicide is it not!?the mentally healthy individual must be true to themselves as they are compelled/forced to act out their own best/worst wishes!?and society is just an agreement to provide mutual compensation(or punishment/confinement!?) to alleviate the most destructive of those forces/wishes/thoughts/actions!?and morals and ethics are the proposed guidelines to be carried out to guarantee a universal society holds together as a community/commonwealth!?a preemptive strategy!?practice makes perfect,example speaks the loudest!?good night and good luck!?: :crazy1: :sun_smiley: hehe!!......just askn...
    Last edited by lexx; 08-15-2008 at 11:38 AM.
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    Re: Morals, Ethics

    I came to office promising major ethics reform to end the culture of self-dealing. And today, that ethics reform is a law. While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for. That luxury jet was over-the-top. I put it on eBay.

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