+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 67

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,471

    Everybody's got one...

    So, what did you think I was talking about? Actually, no, I was refering to "The Golden Rule" (but I like the way yer thinkin') Anyway, I thought I would start with the "big three"

    Judaism;
    "What is harmful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the Law; all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat, 312

    Christianity;
    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12

    Islam;
    "No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself." Sunnah

    Same thought different wording...more to come...
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    I've heard many people make a religion out of this sentiment: "Just do good to people, and you'll be fine."

    These people believe that in the chance there is a god, this perfect god is going to look the other way at the bad things we've all done in the past, and look the other way and let them in heaven. God would not be just if that's what happened, and therefore this idea of god is a contradiction that simply doesn't exist. That's why the golden rule can't save you. No rule can. Instead, it condemns you to being guilty of evil.

    And wow would you apply the golden rule to someone who's pro-choice on abortion? "I'd like to aborted, so I will abort others?"

    If you remove the rules of religion and just stick to that context, you'll get a lot of bizarre results. Take the character Quagmire from Family Guy. He wouldn't mind being forcefully tied up and have some S & M stuff happen to him. Does that mean he should want that for others?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,471

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I've heard many people make a religion out of this sentiment: "Just do good to people, and you'll be fine."

    These people believe that in the chance there is a god, this perfect god is going to look the other way at the bad things we've all done in the past, and look the other way and let them in heaven. God would not be just if that's what happened, and therefore this idea of god is a contradiction that simply doesn't exist. That's why the golden rule can't save you. No rule can. Instead, it condemns you to being guilty of evil.

    And wow would you apply the golden rule to someone who's pro-choice on abortion? "I'd like to aborted, so I will abort others?"

    If you remove the rules of religion and just stick to that context, you'll get a lot of bizarre results. Take the character Quagmire from Family Guy. He wouldn't mind being forcefully tied up and have some S & M stuff happen to him. Does that mean he should want that for others?
    You raise some very valid points Ronald, I started this list really just to point out that every religion has a "golden rule" and although, to me anyway, it is pretty straight foward, but with anything religious it is completely up for interpretation no matter how cut and dry it may appear.

    And as far as the character Quagmire...yes, yes, I think he would:shocked:
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,471

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Here's more...

    Hinuism;
    "This is the turn of duty; do naught unto others which could cause you pain if done to you." Mahabharata, 5, 1517


    Buddhism;
    "Hurt not others in ways you yourself would find hurtful." Dadistan~i~dinik, 94, 5


    Taoism;
    "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    846

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I've heard many people make a religion out of this sentiment: "Just do good to people, and you'll be fine."

    These people believe that in the chance there is a god, this perfect god is going to look the other way at the bad things we've all done in the past, and look the other way and let them in heaven. God would not be just if that's what happened, and therefore this idea of god is a contradiction that simply doesn't exist. That's why the golden rule can't save you. No rule can. Instead, it condemns you to being guilty of evil.

    And wow would you apply the golden rule to someone who's pro-choice on abortion? "I'd like to aborted, so I will abort others?"

    If you remove the rules of religion and just stick to that context, you'll get a lot of bizarre results. Take the character Quagmire from Family Guy. He wouldn't mind being forcefully tied up and have some S & M stuff happen to him. Does that mean he should want that for others?

    So what would you rather see Ronald and eye for an eye?
    It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs.

    "All things are perfect to every last flaw and bound in accord with Eris's Law."
    -HBT; The Book of Advice 1:7

  6. #6
    Godeskian is offline I have taken all knowledge to be my province. User Rank
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    763

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Leaves a lot of blind people in the world.

    I'd like to add confuscius to the list. He said the same thing about doing unto others in about 512 BC in China.
    Close your eyes, but keep your mind wide open.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    846

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Buddhism;
    "Hurt not others in ways you yourself would find hurtful." Dadistan~i~dinik, 94, 5

    Hinuism;
    "This is the turn of duty; do naught unto others which could cause you pain if done to you." Mahabharata, 5, 1517

    Judaism;
    "What is harmful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the Law; all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat, 312

    These three seem to state that we shouldn't bring harm to our fellow humans. I don't see anything in there that says god will forgive you or god will look the other way, pretty much just a treat each other as decently as you can. Pretty good guide lines if you ask me.

    Looks like a cultural ideal to me than a hard and fast rule.
    It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs.

    "All things are perfect to every last flaw and bound in accord with Eris's Law."
    -HBT; The Book of Advice 1:7

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason View Post
    So what would you rather see Ronald and eye for an eye?
    The eye for an eye law was not one that allowed violence, but restricted it. If you bothered to actually pay attention to the Bible while you read it, you'd notice a character named Lamech. You can search his name in any online Bible.

    This guy declared that if anyone wronged him, he would pay them back 77 times!

    When someone wrongs you, you don't have to bring that charge to court. You can say: "I forgive them."

    The law does not insist that you gouge someone's eye out if they gouge yours. It merely states that you have the right to, but are forbidden to damage one further than they damaged you. You can't blow someone's brains out if they stubbed your toe.

    It's a pretty darn, fair law if you ask me.

    The law was laid so that people could know what was just, but mercy is preached all along the way, and mercy in various instances is not against the law.

    The law demands a price be paid for crimes. For example, if you destroyed someone's property, someone has to pay for it. That is justice. But, if someone comes along and pays the amount owed for you, you can be free to go, no matter how mad the person who owned the property is at you and wants to see you suffer.

    You may wrong someone in the course of your life, whether you know it or not, and they may not forgive you for it. But there is one man who paid your tab, if you should choose to accept. Jesus' whole body went dead so that no one's eye would have to be gouged out.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,471

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godeskian View Post
    Leaves a lot of blind people in the world.

    I'd like to add confuscius to the list. He said the same thing about doing unto others in about 512 BC in China.
    In fact, I am just about to get to him, in my third installment...
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    846

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The eye for an eye law was not one that allowed violence, but restricted it. If you bothered to actually pay attention to the Bible while you read it, you'd notice a character named Lamech. You can search his name in any online Bible.

    This guy declared that if anyone wronged him, he would pay them back 77 times!

    When someone wrongs you, you don't have to bring that charge to court. You can say: "I forgive them."

    The law does not insist that you gouge someone's eye out if they gouge yours. It merely states that you have the right to, but are forbidden to damage one further than they damaged you. You can't blow someone's brains out if they stubbed your toe.

    It's a pretty darn, fair law if you ask me.

    The law was laid so that people could know what was just, but mercy is preached all along the way, and mercy in various instances is not against the law.

    The law demands a price be paid for crimes. For example, if you destroyed someone's property, someone has to pay for it. That is justice. But, if someone comes along and pays the amount owed for you, you can be free to go, no matter how mad the person who owned the property is at you and wants to see you suffer.

    You may wrong someone in the course of your life, whether you know it or not, and they may not forgive you for it. But there is one man who paid your tab, if you should choose to accept. Jesus' whole body went dead so that no one's eye would have to be gouged out.
    I don't really care to read the bible your war god is not for me.

    So instead of treating your neighbor in a civilized manner like the golden rule says you would rather see poor man be tortured for some crime because he can't afford to pay the government off? Thats equal justice for you yes the poor will be tortured to death because they can't come up with the money to pay off the government but the rich will live on because they can afford to pay the bribe/blackmail.

    Typical war/bloodthirsty god stuff.
    It is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs.

    "All things are perfect to every last flaw and bound in accord with Eris's Law."
    -HBT; The Book of Advice 1:7

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,471

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Oh boy, I got all mixed up there, The Buddhist quote was actually written by Udana-Varga 5, 18...And, I meant Hinduism...anyway, the Buddhist's author was actually the Zoroastrianism's one, so, with that clarified...:drunk: let us move on...

    Zoroastrianism;
    "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself." -Dadistan-i-dinik, 94, 5


    Confucianism
    "Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you." -Analects,15, 23


    And I saved my favorite for last...

    Secular View
    "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -George Bernard Shaw
    Last edited by jigglepete; 12-17-2007 at 02:44 PM. Reason: i before e...
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
    -Hunter S. Thompson

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,324

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    If you remove the rules of religion and just stick to that context, you'll get a lot of bizarre results. Take the character Quagmire from Family Guy. He wouldn't mind being forcefully tied up and have some S & M stuff happen to him. Does that mean he should want that for others?
    That's a pretty silly way of looking at it. You could instead say that he wants people to perform an activity on him that he would enjoy, and so he should perform activities for other people that they would enjoy. We're adults here, not 5-year olds, and should be able to tell the difference between performing the same physical act on another person, and performing an act that will have the same end result for another person (ie. something they would enjoy).

  13. #13
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. User Rank
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Religions Golden Rule: Give often, give til it hurts.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    That's a pretty silly way of looking at it. You could instead say that he wants people to perform an activity on him that he would enjoy, and so he should perform activities for other people that they would enjoy. We're adults here, not 5-year olds, and should be able to tell the difference between performing the same physical act on another person, and performing an act that will have the same end result for another person (ie. something they would enjoy).
    The rule doesn't apply when catching a criminal, or stopping someone from committing suicide by jumping off a building when they want to, or making a kid practice the violin, or punishing a child for doing something, etc.

    Enjoyment has nothing to do with decisions. Would it be right to kill one child so we could all enjoy our lives more? What if we would enjoy it to the intensity that it feels like we're winning the lottery? And if we let the child live, they'd only live 10 more average years?

    It doesn't matter. You don't murder. Morals do exist. Actions may be subjective, like its good to have sex sometimes, like your wedding night, but not when Michael Jackson does it to kids. Actions are subjective, but there are objective moral principles. For example, it's always wrong to torture babies for fun. Always.

    If you want your moral behavior to be guided solely by the "Golden Rule", that's fine, but it isn't really so golden. If you put that one rule in a vacuum, it doesn't work. You wind up having situations where you don't treat people the way they want to be treated.

    Even in Christianity, that rule is superceded by the Great Commandment before it - to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength. You basically do the will of the thing that had the genius and generosity of creating the entire world.

    That's why people turn to the Ten Commandments, not just that one Golden Rule. You don't commit adultery ever. You don't give false testimony against your neighbor ever. You don't ever dishonor your mother and father.

    But to tell some kid "Treat others the way you want to be treated. That's all you need to know!" is just a joke. That's not all you need to know about morality (which evolutionists think doesn't exist, but merely some behavior that helps perpetuate our genes). You wouldn't believe the hostility towards objective morals by atheists.

  15. #15
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. User Rank
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    "But to tell some kid "Treat others the way you want to be treated. That's all you need to know!" is just a joke. That's not all you need to know about morality (which evolutionists think doesn't exist, but merely some behavior that helps perpetuate our genes). You wouldn't believe the hostility towards objective morals by atheists."

    Now, there's a stupid comment. Talk about conflating topics.

    Evolution has nothing to do with morality...just as gravity has nothing to do with morality.

    Tell me, how are atheists able to be moral without religion?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Everybody's got one...

    Quote Originally Posted by jigglepete View Post
    And I saved my favorite for last...

    Secular View
    "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same." -George Bernard Shaw
    That word there shatters the "secular-ness" of the quote. "Should"? What's "should"? Why should someone have to do anything? Why is there any "should"? I thought morality was supposed to be just an imaginary concept that doesn't really exist.

    From an atheist point of view, if you can murder someone and take their money and get away with it with 100% certainty, then why shouldn't you? If the prize of the sin is more pleasurable than the remorse felt, then what's going to stop this animal called man?

    There's no "should" in the atheist world. Just whatever gets you the most pleasure.

    Anyway, I just thought I'd point out the slip-up.