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  1. #1
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    My problem with Judaism

    I went to Biblegateway.com and did a search for the word "Judaism". It never shows up in the Old Testament. Not once. Not in the Torah, not amongst their prophets - never. The word only appears in the New Testament, only after Christ has been killed. Then the word springs forth.

    Judaism is not the religion that the Old Testament prophets believed in. Judaism is not defined as the practice of the law of the Torah. Because to practice that law, you have to stone adulterers, homosexuals, witches and many others. You have to slaughter animals as sin offerings.

    What Judaism is now is a bunch of pretenders, people who pretend they follow the law. They come up with the complex system of rules. They take liberties, interpreting literally where they like and liberally where a literal interpretation is too diffuclt for them.

    Judaism is this - the belief that crucifying Jesus was the right thing to do. That is its center.

    I've seen wonderful displays of morality by people who believe in Judaism. I really have. I do not deny that good comes from this, but I can say this about any religion. The deceit of Judaism is this - that you can work hard enough to worthy of entering heaven. They believe that they are good, righteous people.

    The best of Christians are ones who know what awful people they are, and this is what they must proclaim. Anyone who does not confess that they are bad is a deceiver. None but God are good. All are bad, and heaven is not heaven with bad people in it.

    Our two cultures have interacted, but we've always kept our mouths shut about it. We always criticized Islam, but we never say anything about Judaism.

    I love Jews. They're good people. I'm glad that I have the Jewish friends I work with. But I have to say that this is a religion of foolishness. You can't hide behind merely following the Old Testament law. The foundation of this is the murder of Jesus, and you of Judaism have not defended this. Your evidence is scarce and your reasoning poor.

    The oral tradition - I couldn't believe what I heard when a Jew tried to explain this to me, that they actually considered this reliable. Apparently no one ever played the game "broken telephone" with them in school.

    I sit and I watch Christians and Jews be friends. Just friends. They smile at each other, being nice, helping each other out, while one thinks the other is going to hell and the other thinks the Christian commits idolatry, but neither say a word. Their faces are full of lies and deceit, both Christian and Jew.

    I mean no racism, and I believe in peace. I believe in being honest and kind to people of any faith, protecting them. But I can't keep quiet on this, even if it means offending people. I do not see ultimately wisdom or goodness in their path, but foolishness. I see denial, unreasonableness.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Well im not a jew but what the hey ill play along

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I went to Biblegateway.com and did a search for the word "Judaism". It never shows up in the Old Testament. Not once. Not in the Torah, not amongst their prophets - never. The word only appears in the New Testament, only after Christ has been killed. Then the word springs forth.
    unless ur planning on turning this into a battle of semantics i suggest you look for the word jew instead. If your argument is that its not "judaism" with the ism then its the same with christianity(for the older versions at least)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Judaism is not the religion that the Old Testament prophets believed in. Judaism is not defined as the practice of the law of the Torah.
    Funny how them jews got it all wrong for all those thousands of years then

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Because to practice that law, you have to stone adulterers, homosexuals, witches and many others. You have to slaughter animals as sin offerings.
    Well thats a sort of problem, the god in the OT seems to be kidnapped and replaced with another one from book to book, we go from one that seems to be part of a group of other gods to one that hates them. She goes from being quite a bloodthisty killing machine to a peaceful ghandi that loves everyone and depending on your denomination she may or may not make you burn in a lake of fire if u dont beleive in Her

    stone adulterers, homosexuals, witches and many others
    On another note havent we seen in the past and even now that christians do all of these things and more. Killing doctors and bombing abortion clinics, showing up in the funeral of gay men who were kia with banners that read "god hates ***s". Denying them the right to marry. Going to wars and massacring everyone there who dont beleive in your faith. Seems to me that any moral laws that any religion sets up can be warped to fit the needs to of the people



    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    What Judaism is now is a bunch of pretenders, people who pretend they follow the law.
    Or you can take the stance that the cultural norm was different at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    They come up with the complex system of rules. They take liberties, interpreting literally where they like and liberally where a literal interpretation is too diffuclt for them.
    Or not, saying that to be a jew you must follow those laws is a strawman, the jewish identity is very varied, heck you can be an atheist and still be a jew by parentage
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Judaism is this - the belief that crucifying Jesus was the right thing to do. That is its center.
    silly me and here i thought Jews simply didnt beleive that jesus was the messiah. Im pretty sure that 99.9% of the jews will agree that the cruxifiction of jesus was a bad thing but will argue that he was not the big cheese

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I've seen wonderful displays of morality by people who believe in Judaism. I really have. I do not deny that good comes from this, but I can say this about any religion. The deceit of Judaism is this - that you can work hard enough to worthy of entering heaven. They believe that they are good, righteous people.
    Ah yes this seems to me like its going into the works vs faith argument, i assume that you have the same problems with the catholics. You must beleive in jesus or you burn in hell, why? well your benevolent god doesnt like people who are skeptics and question things, she prefers to be surrounded by bobbleheads who agree with everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The best of Christians are ones who know what awful people they are, and this is what they must proclaim.
    Im in agreement here, ill also add that i find very sensible those who agree that for almost any religion its incredibly easy to distort the message given in order to satisfy their needs, that no matter how many messages of peace and love a religion has, people will still find ways to commit atrocities. David koresh comes to my mind atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Anyone who does not confess that they are bad is a deceiver. None but God are good. All are bad, and heaven is not heaven with bad people in it.
    Ah yes we are all bad and and will burn in hell unless ur with my particular religion, some of it is very humble but unfortunatelly that claim to special knowledge and revelation, that confidence that you are the ones who are right and will never think otherwise is rather condescending.

    Also your god doesnt stike me too much as good, she seems to like to hold a grudge and gets very jealous. Why the hell does bad exist in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Our two cultures have interacted, but we've always kept our mouths shut about it. We always criticized Islam, but we never say anything about Judaism.
    Thats a pretty big generalisation, i thought you also criticized anyone who didnt beleive in the bible. Ive even heard some say science came from satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I love Jews. They're good people. I'm glad that I have the Jewish friends I work with.
    Well thats nice, normally im only aware of other peoples beleifs on fridays when the philosophy department and us have 2 breaks together, they make for some fun debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    But I have to say that this is a religion of foolishness.
    I happen to beleive that too, with christianity also
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    You can't hide behind merely following the Old Testament law. The foundation of this is the murder of Jesus, and you of Judaism have not defended this.
    And once again its foundation is not the murder of jesus, as an atheist i too share criticisms towards judaism but even i get irked when someone is purposedly misrepresenting someone elses views(even if i dont agree with them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Your evidence is scarce and your reasoning poor.
    i really want a shirt that says this

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The oral tradition - I couldn't believe what I heard when a Jew tried to explain this to me, that they actually considered this reliable. Apparently no one ever played the game "broken telephone" with them in school.
    youre right on the mark that this isnt reliable, the same applies with written paper that gets translated over and over


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I sit and I watch Christians and Jews be friends. Just friends. They smile at each other, being nice, helping each other out, while one thinks the other is going to hell and the other thinks the Christian commits idolatry, but neither say a word. Their faces are full of lies and deceit, both Christian and Jew.
    well youve blown me away, based on ur writtings on top i assumed that you were most likely an evangelist or similar denomination, im not so sure now so if im wrong i apologise in advance, its wrong to assume i know what others are thinking(i lack esp you see)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I mean no racism, and I believe in peace. I believe in being honest and kind to people of any faith, protecting them. But I can't keep quiet on this, even if it means offending people. I do not see ultimately wisdom or goodness in their path, but foolishness. I see denial, unreasonableness.
    I see foolishness too for any other religion, but hey its my opinion, not like i have special knowledge in the unknowable and im certainly open enough to the possibility of being wrong that i refuse to make claims that are not properly supported

  3. #3
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    unless ur planning on turning this into a battle of semantics i suggest you look for the word jew instead. If your argument is that its not "judaism" with the ism then its the same with christianity(for the older versions at least)

    Funny how them jews got it all wrong for all those thousands of years then

    silly me and here i thought Jews simply didnt beleive that jesus was the messiah. Im pretty sure that 99.9% of the jews will agree that the cruxifiction of jesus was a bad thing but will argue that he was not the big cheese
    You would be surprised. I've seen YouTube clips where they quote the law of Moses as justification for killing Jesus. A person of Judaism would state that though the crucifiction may have been over the top, stoning him to death would have been just right.


    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    And once again its foundation is not the murder of jesus, as an atheist i too share criticisms towards judaism but even i get irked when someone is purposedly misrepresenting someone elses views(even if i dont agree with them)
    Think about it. The word "Judaism" only emerges after Jesus' death. It isn't found in the Old Testament, or even the gospels. Jesus never once uses the term. It's only after Jesus' death is the term suddenly coined. Religious Jews were divided about the identity of Jesus, and two new terms arose "Christianity" and "Judaism".

    The root word of Judaism is not "Jew". No, it's either "Judah" or "Judas". Take your pick.


    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    youre right on the mark that this isnt reliable, the same applies with written paper that gets translated over and over
    I'm no longer a Christian, but I'm reading a book called "Evidence that demands a verdict". You couldn't be more wrong about the reliability in the translation process. The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls proved that the Old Testament was copied with incredible accuracy from 0 to 1000 AD. People have some very old copies of the manuscripts. The New Testament in particular has an enormous amount of manuscripts available dating very close to the time it was written. The thing about an evangelical faith is that the Bible can't be translated to suit their needs because someone with an older copy can just bring it forward and expose the new changed copy as false.

    Scholars are in a great amount of agreement as to what the original texts say, even if there are multiple versions of the Bible (King James, NIV, NASB, etc.) Despite the variations in translations, all the translation generally say the same thing. The variances are nowhere near as great as the common grounds they find.

  4. #4
    Godeskian is offline I have taken all knowledge to be my province. User Rank
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    Im pretty sure that 99.9% of the jews will agree that the cruxifiction of jesus was a bad thing but will argue that he was not the big cheese
    Maybe it's me, but I'd like to think that 99% of all people, everywhere would consider nailing a fellow living being to a wooden cross and leaving him to die due to blood loss and exposure would be a bad thing. :P
    Close your eyes, but keep your mind wide open.

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    Godeskian is offline I have taken all knowledge to be my province. User Rank
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The root word of Judaism is not "Jew". No, it's either "Judah" or "Judas". Take your pick.
    First Lexx, now you. Would it kill you people to actually look up some of these words on reputable etymology websites before declaring what the root of a word is.

    sigh.

    Judaism from the online etymology dictionary.

    1494 (attested in Anglo-L. from 1251), from L.L. Judaismus (Tertullian), from Gk. Ioudaismos, from Ioudaios "Jew" (see Jew).

    So yes, it does have it's root in the word Jew.
    Close your eyes, but keep your mind wide open.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    You would be surprised. I've seen YouTube clips where they quote the law of Moses as justification for killing Jesus. A person of Judaism would state that though the crucifiction may have been over the top, stoning him to death would have been just right.
    lol i think its sane for me to reason that some videos dont represent the mayority or even a large percentage of views for the same reason that some americans claiming theive beem abducted by aliens dont represent americas view on whether ufos exists

    tell you what, ask around. Go to a rabbi and ask him what is the stance on the cruxifiction of jesus of his denomination


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Think about it. The word "Judaism" only emerges after Jesus' death. It isn't found in the Old Testament, or even the gospels. Jesus never once uses the term. It's only after Jesus' death is the term suddenly coined. Religious Jews were divided about the identity of Jesus, and two new terms arose "Christianity" and "Judaism".
    Well thats true, jesus was jewish and so was everyone else who belonged to the target audience at the time, what doesnt make sence is your claim that judaism as a religion came along with cristianity, judaism is 2000 years older than christianity.

    As i said this is just arguing over semantics, tell me what is the difference between what those "religious jews" beleived and judaism(hint its not a misrepresentation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The root word of Judaism is not "Jew". No, it's either "Judah" or "Judas". Take your pick.
    I thought that the greek for both words made no difference between them, in any case i have to ask what is the point(if any) that you are trying to make here

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I'm no longer a Christian
    I need to ask what you are then, seriously all the points you have made so far make you look that way
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    , but I'm reading a book called "Evidence that demands a verdict". You couldn't be more wrong about the reliability in the translation process.
    The process isnt the problem, its the result. Even if you translate things word for word it still gets lost when going from a language to another, you know like lost in translation. If you are fluent in a second language then im sure you understand how much meat per say is lost that way


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls proved that the Old Testament was copied with incredible accuracy from 0 to 1000 AD. People have some very old copies of the manuscripts.
    thats nice, it still tells us nothing as to wether these papers have anything to do with this god

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The New Testament in particular has an enormous amount of manuscripts available dating very close to the time it was written. The thing about an evangelical faith is that the Bible can't be translated to suit their needs because someone with an older copy can just bring it forward and expose the new changed copy as false.
    Of course not, there is no need. All you have to do is twist what the bible says to make it fit with what you want. conversely if your a literalist then try to convince people that the scientific view on reallity is wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Scholars are in a great amount of agreement as to what the original texts say, even if there are multiple versions of the Bible (King James, NIV, NASB, etc.) Despite the variations in translations, all the translation generally say the same thing. The variances are nowhere near as great as the common grounds they find.
    they can be pretty great heck even those who beleive in the inerrancy of the bible agree on that and thus prefer to just use the kjv

    (http://www.hissheep.org/kjv/a_compar...e_kjv_niv.html)[pretty funny and kind of sad]


    im kinda sleepy and feeling sick so sorry if im not coherent

  7. #7
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Godeskian View Post
    First Lexx, now you. Would it kill you people to actually look up some of these words on reputable etymology websites before declaring what the root of a word is.

    sigh.

    Judaism from the online etymology dictionary.

    1494 (attested in Anglo-L. from 1251), from L.L. Judaismus (Tertullian), from Gk. Ioudaismos, from Ioudaios "Jew" (see Jew).

    So yes, it does have it's root in the word Jew.
    Nonsense. Jewish and Jewry have the base word "Jew" in in it. Juda-ism is clearly derived probably from the tribe of Judah.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Nonsense. Jewish and Jewry have the base word "Jew" in in it. Juda-ism is clearly derived probably from the tribe of Judah.
    lol and im sure those people spoke english

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    lol i think its sane for me to reason that some videos dont represent the mayority or even a large percentage of views for the same reason that some americans claiming theive beem abducted by aliens dont represent americas view on whether ufos exists

    tell you what, ask around. Go to a rabbi and ask him what is the stance on the cruxifiction of jesus of his denomination
    I don't know any rabbis, and since none are here, we'll just have to make do. But, I know a little about what Judaism thinks, and here is a passage they could use to justify killing Jesus.

    Deuteronomy 13
    Worshiping Other Gods
    1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God

    It doesn't ever matter HOW you kill him. Ever flogging and crucifixtion is kosher in this instance.

  10. #10
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
    Well thats true, jesus was jewish and so was everyone else who belonged to the target audience at the time, what doesnt make sence is your claim that judaism as a religion came along with cristianity, judaism is 2000 years older than christianity.
    No, Judaism is not older than Christianity. Christianity says Abraham saw the coming of Jesus and was glad for it. Christianity shows Jesus while transfigured speaking with Moses.

    Before the time of Jesus, the Jews did not know how to get to heaven, nor were they even aware there was a hell. They were not made aware at the time because there was nothing they could do about it. The knowledge of them being hellbound would only have burdened their hearts.

    The knowledge of hell comes when Jesus enters the scene, and only then since he provides the solution to it.

    The term Judaism is not found before Jesus' death. This proves where it was born.

    If merely following the law of the Torah is what Judaism was defined as, then techinically Jesus was of that faith. But he wasn't. That faith speaks against him while Jesus speaks FOR himself.

    Judaism's foundation is the death of Christ, the attempt to justify it.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    I don't know any rabbis, and since none are here, we'll just have to make do. But, I know a little about what Judaism thinks,
    right, you have not shown me that since you claim that all jews are very happy about jesus crucifixtion. At least search online for what the jewish mayority think of it. The answers that you are going to get is most likely that killing anyone on a stake is bad and that the fact that it is jesus is irrelevant

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    and here is a passage they could use to justify killing Jesus...
    You seem to think that the jews from now have the same ideologies as the ones from before, based on that i could say that all christians want to kill and convert us because of the crusades

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    No, Judaism is not older than Christianity. Christianity says Abraham saw the coming of Jesus and was glad for it. Christianity shows Jesus while transfigured speaking with Moses.
    you seem to have a warped view on time, judaism has been around for 4000 years, the passage you said in the bible comes from the gospel of john which was written from 70-100 ad

    if you want to keep arguing that this is not the case and that judaism after jesus is not the same but rather some strawman interpretation then this really isnt worth my time

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Before the time of Jesus, the Jews did not know how to get to heaven, nor were they even aware there was a hell.
    theres nothing you cant do in judaism to go to heaven, its either heaven or a form of purgatory which you spend a year at most

    jews dont have a concept of hell, hell is a mainly christian concept that has no place in their religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    They were not made aware at the time because there was nothing they could do about it. The knowledge of them being hellbound would only have burdened their hearts.
    or maybe it doesnt exist and was made up in the wake of cristianity to scare people into joining, i like your god btw, omnipotent and very caring but wont do anything about thousands upon thousands of people going directly to hell

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The knowledge of hell comes when Jesus enters the scene, and only then since he provides the solution to it.
    imaginary solutions to imaginary concepts. pretay meaningless

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    The term Judaism is not found before Jesus' death. This proves where it was born.
    just as the term japan is not used by the japanese, this proves that japan doesnt exist

    heres some wiki stuff, origins and everything including writting that dates way before christ

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    If merely following the law of the Torah is what Judaism was defined as, then techinically Jesus was of that faith. But he wasn't. That faith speaks against him while Jesus speaks FOR himself.
    Look he was a liberal jew, same core principles but he disagreed with the laws. protestants disagree with catholics but theire both christians

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Judaism's foundation is the death of Christ, the attempt to justify it.
    youve said this already, youve yet to provide any evidence that this is so. Its not true yet you continue to say it hmmm.

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    Godeskian is offline I have taken all knowledge to be my province. User Rank
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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    Nonsense. Jewish and Jewry have the base word "Jew" in in it. Juda-ism is clearly derived probably from the tribe of Judah.
    Now go find me one, and that's all i'm asking for, one REPUTABLE source that agrees with you rather than with the standard etymological definitions and texts.

    Because they all back me up, and I'm not going to accept your unsupported word just because you don't like the conclusions of the linguists without evidence.
    Close your eyes, but keep your mind wide open.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Ronald, what can I say? Next thing you'll be spewing the old Jews-use-the-blood-of-Christian-children-in-the-Passover smear. And then you'll claim you love Jews and have Jewish friends. I can't wait.

    Btw, the Romans crucified Jesus, not the Jews.
    "I am not afraid." Joan of Arc

    "...victory at all cost, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be, for without victory there is no survival." Sir Winston Churchill

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald View Post
    No, Judaism is not older than Christianity. Christianity says Abraham saw the coming of Jesus and was glad for it. Christianity shows Jesus while transfigured speaking with Moses.

    Before the time of Jesus, the Jews did not know how to get to heaven, nor were they even aware there was a hell. They were not made aware at the time because there was nothing they could do about it. The knowledge of them being hellbound would only have burdened their hearts.

    The knowledge of hell comes when Jesus enters the scene, and only then since he provides the solution to it.

    The term Judaism is not found before Jesus' death. This proves where it was born.

    If merely following the law of the Torah is what Judaism was defined as, then techinically Jesus was of that faith. But he wasn't. That faith speaks against him while Jesus speaks FOR himself.

    Judaism's foundation is the death of Christ, the attempt to justify it.
    Ronald what church, did you, or do you attend?

    Because if this is the theology that they are teaching. You are most assuredly involved in some kind of a cult.

    What you wrote is a twisted mixture of Christianity, bizarre history, pseudo scholarship, and just plain non-sense.

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    Re: My problem with Judaism

    I thought it was common sense that Judaism was in reference to the Jewish religion, which is JEW. That's at least what my major world religions professor assumed... as well as the majority of the population...

    (Jewism just sounds funny...)

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