+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Ok I wasn't sure if I should post this is in the CT forum or here, I decided here because the subject of this strange story Im about to show is a personal hero of mine, Nikola Tesla, the man who invented the Tesla coil and in my opinion should be the one credited with inventing electricity, Edison was the creator of DC(Direct current) electricity, but Tesla can be credited with inventing AC(alternating current) electricity, the type used in our homes today. When I was going to college I had a teacher who said DC is used underground(mines) and Ac above. Well this little story isnt about any of that, its sort of an urban legend I guess, it's about Tesla's death ray,lol. Im not trying to convince anyone it is the truth just wanted to share it and I dont believe it either but it is interesting I think. This probably should have went in CT but what the hell. :D

    **************************************************

    Tesla's Death Ray

    Given that Tesla's inventions generally possessed an element of social conscience, of doing good for humanity, it may seem surprising that he created a number of devices with military applications. And the notion of the Tesla harnessing his mind for purposes of war may seem immensely frightening. After all, this is the man who boasted that with his resonance generator he could split the earth in two... and no one was ever quite sure whether he was joking.
    The first Tesla invention with a proposed military use was his automaton technology, with which the labor of human beings could be performed by machines. Specifically, Tesla produced remote-controlled boats and submarines. He demonstrated the wireless ship at an exposition in Madison Square Garden in 1898. The automaton apparatus was so advanced, it used a form of voice recognition to respond to the verbal commands of Tesla and volunteers from the audience.

    In public, Tesla spoke only of the humanitarian virtues of the invention: it would lessen the toils and drudgery of mankind and keep human lives out of harm's way. But Tesla actually had his hopes on a contract with the U.S. military. In a presentation before the War Department, Tesla argued that his unmanned torpedo craft could obliterate the Spanish Armada and end the war with Spain in an afternoon. The government never took Tesla up on his offer.

    Tesla then decided to pitch the automated submarine to private industry, and submitted it for the approval of J. P. Morgan. According to some accounts, Morgan offered to manufacture Tesla's vessels, but only if Tesla would agree to marry Morgan's daughter. Such a deal was of course anathema to Tesla, and he and Morgan would not work together until Wardenclyffe, a couple of years later.

    Tesla eventually landed a successful military contract -- with the German Marine High Command. The product here was not unmanned sea craft, but sophisticated turbines which Admiral von Tirpitz used to great success in his fleet of warships. After J. P. Morgan cut off his support of Wardenclyffe, this foreign contract was Tesla's only substantial source of income. Upon the outbreak of World War I, Tesla chose to forfeit his German royalties, lest he be charged with treason.

    Nearly broke, and finding the United States on the brink of war, Tesla dreamed up a new invention that might interest the military: the death ray.

    The mechanism behind Tesla's death ray is not well understood. It was apparently some sort of particle accelerator. Tesla said it was an outgrowth of his magnifying transformer, which focused its energy output into a thin beam so concentrated it would not scatter, even over huge distances. He promoted the device as a purely defensive weapon, intended to knock down incoming attacks -- making the death ray the great-great grandfather of the Strategic Defense Initiative.

    It is not certain if Tesla ever used the death ray, or indeed if he even succeeded in building one. But the following is the often-related story of what happened one night in 1908 when Tesla tested the foreboding weapon.

    At the time, Robert Peary was making his second attempt to reach the North Pole. Cryptically, Tesla had notified the expedition that he would be trying to contact them somehow. They were to report to him the details of anything unusual they might witness on the open tundra. On the evening of June 30, accompanied by his associate George Scherff atop Wardenclyffe tower, Tesla aimed his death ray across the Atlantic towards the arctic, to a spot which he calculated was west of the Peary expedition.

    Tesla switched on the device. At first, it was hard to tell if it was even working. Its extremity emitted a dim light that was barely visible. Then an owl flew from its perch on the tower's pinnacle, soaring into the path of the beam. The bird disintegrated instantly.

    That concluded the test. Tesla watched the newspapers and sent telegrams to Peary in hopes of confirming the death ray's effectiveness. Nothing turned up. Tesla was ready to admit failure when news came of a strange event in Siberia.

    On June 30, a massive explosion had devastated Tunguska, a remote area in the Siberian wilderness. Five hundred thousand square acres of land had been instantly destroyed. Equivalent to ten to fifteen megatons of TNT, the Tunguska incident is the most powerful explosion to have occurred in human history -- not even subsequent thermonuclear detonations have surpassed it. The explosion was audible from 620 miles away. Scientists believe it was caused by either a meteorite or a fragment of a comet, although no obvious impact site or mineral remnants of such an object were ever found.

    Nikola Tesla had a different explanation. It was plain that his death ray had overshot its intended target and destroyed Tunguska. He was thankful beyond measure that the explosion had -- miraculously -- killed no one. Tesla dismantled the death ray at once, deeming it too dangerous to remain in existence.

    Six years later, the onset of the First World War caused Tesla to reconsider. He wrote to President Wilson, revealing his secret death ray test. He offered to rebuild the weapon for the War Department, to be used purely as a deterrent. The mere threat of such destructive force, he claimed, would cause the warring nations to agree at once to establish lasting peace.

    The only response to Tesla's proposal was a form letter of appreciation from the president's secretary. The death ray was never reconstructed, and for that we should probably all be thankful.

    Tesla made one one further attempt to aid in his country's war effort. In 1917, he conceived of a sending station that would emit exploratory waves of energy, enabling its operators to determine the precise location of distant enemy craft. The War Department rejected Tesla's "exploring ray" as a laughing stock.

    A generation later, a new invention exactly like this helped the Allies win World War II. It was called radar.

    http://www.viewzone.com/tesla.ray.html
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Heres another strange invention of Tesla's

    ************************************************** **

    Nikola Tesla's Earthquake Machine

    A few years ago, a friend mentioned that he had noticed a peculiar pattern of the earthquake frequency in Southern California. In all recent instances except the 1993 Northridge blockbuster, the space shuttle had been aloft at the time. (Conspiracy researcher and radio show host Dave "I Read It In A Book So It Must Be True" Emory has commented on this as well.) Even though it was meant as a joke, there are obvious implications for anyone who could control this final frontier of the natural world. Perhaps this has already been accomplished. In the last years of the 19th century, technological alchemist Nikola Tesla may have harnessed this principle to similar effect.

    Tesla has been called everything from a genius to a quack. The fact remains that the alternating current electrical system now used worldwide was his conception, and among other inventions he perfected a remote controlled boat in 1897&emdash;only a few years after the discovery of radio waves. This device was publicly demonstrated at Madison Square Garden the next year to capacity crowds.

    In 1896, Tesla had been in the United States for 11 years after emigrating from his native Croatia. After a disastrous fire in his former laboratory, he moved to more amenable quarters at 46 Houston St. in Manhattan. For the past few years, he had pondered the sigificance of waves and resonance, thinking that along with the AC system, there were other untapped sources of power waiting to be exploited. The oscillators he designed and built were originally designed to provide a stable source for the frequencies of alternating current&emdash;accurate enough to "set your watch by."

    He constructed a simple device consisting of a piston suspended in a cylinder, which bypassed the necessity of a camshaft driven by a rotating power source, such as a gasoline or steam engine. In this way, he hoped to overcome loss of power through friction produced by the old system. This small device also enabled Tesla to try out his experiments in resonance. Every substance has a resonant frequency which is demonstrated by the principle of sympathetic vibration&endash;the most obvious example is the wine glass shattered by an opera singer (or a tape recording for you couch potatoes.) If this frequency is matched and amplified, any material may be literally shaken to pieces.

    A vibrating assembly with an adjustable frequency was finally perfected, and by 1897, Tesla was causing trouble with it in and near the neighborhood around his loft laboratory. Reporter A.L. Besnson wrote about this device in late 1911 or early 1912 for the Hearst tabloid The World Today. After fastening the resonator ("no larger than an alarm clock") to a steel bar (or "link") two feet long and two inches thick:

    He set the vibrator in "tune" with the link. For a long time nothing happened-&endash;vibrations of machine and link did not seem to coincide, but at last they did and the great steel began to tremble, increased its trembling until it dialated and contracted like a beating heart&endash;and finally broke. Sledge hammers could not have done it; crowbars could not have done it, but a fusillade of taps, no one of which would have harmed a baby, did it. Tesla was pleased.

    But not pleased enough it seems:

    He put his little vibrator in his coat-pocket and went out to hunt a half-erected steel building. Down in the Wall Street district, he found one&endash;ten stories of steel framework without a brick or a stone laid around it. He clamped the vibrator to one of the beams, and fussed with the adjustment until he got it.

    Tesla said finally the structure began to creak and weave and the steel-workers came to the ground panic-stricken, believing that there had been an earthquake. Police were called out. Tesla put the vibrator in his pocket and went away. Ten minutes more and he could have laid the building in the street. And, with the same vibrator he could have dropped the Brooklyn Bridge into the East River in less than an hour.

    Tesla claimed the device, properly modified, could be used to map underground deposits of oil. A vibration sent through the earth returns an "echo signature" using the same principle as sonar. This idea was actually adapted for use by the petroleum industry, and is used today in a modified form with devices used to locate objects at archaelogical digs.

    Even before he had mentioned the invention to anyone he was already scaring the local populace around his loft laboratory. Although this story may be apocryphal, it has been cited in more than one biography: Tesla happened to attach the device to an exposed steel girder in his brownstone, thinking the foundations were built on strudy granite. As he disovered later, the subtrata in the area consisted of sand&endash;an excellent conductor and propogator of ground vibrations.

    After setting the little machine up, he proceeded to putter about the lab on other projects that needed attention. Meanwhile, for blocks around, chaos reigned as objects fell off shelves, furniture moved across floors, windows shattered, and pipes broke. The pandemonium didn't go unnoticed in the local precinct house where prisoners panicked and police officers fought to keep coffee and donuts from flying off desks. Used as they were to the frequent calls about diabolical noises and flashes from Mr. Tesla's block, they hightailed it over. Racing up the stairs and into the lab, they found the inventor smashing the vibrator to bits with a sledgehammer. Turning to them with accustomed old-world aplomb, he apoligized calmly: " Gentlemen, I am sorry. You are just a trifle too late to witness my experiment. I found it necessary to stop it suddenly and unexpectedly in an unusual way. However, If you will come around this evening, I will have another oscillator attached to a platform and each of you can stand on it. You will I am sure find it a most interesting and pleasurable experience. Now, you must leave, for I have many things to do. Good day." (Actually, another story is related of Tesla's good friend Mark Twain, a regular visitor to the laboratory, standing on the vibrating platform to his great surprise and pleasure, extoling its theraputic effects while repeatedly ignoring the inventor's warnings to get down. Before long, he was made aware of its laxative effects and ran stiffly to the water closet.)

    One source has it that the device "bonded to the metal on an atomic level" and Tesla was unable to get at the controls, but it seems more likely that the wild movements of the girder, combined with the panic that he might bring the neigborhood down, moved Tesla to this unsubtle action. He later mused to reporters that the very earth could be split in two given the right conditions. The detonation of a ton of dynamite at intervals of one hour and forty-nine minutes would step up the natural standing wave that would be produced until the earth's crust could no longer contain the interior. He called his new science "tele-geodynamics." Newspaper artists of the time went nuts with all manner of fanciful illustrations of this theory. Tesla's fertile imagination posited a series of oscillators attached to the earth at strategic points that would be used to transmit vibrations to be picked up at any point on the globe and turned back in to usable power. Since no practical application of this idea could be found at the time that would make money for big investors or other philanthropic souls, (one can't effectively meter and charge for power derived in this way) the oscillators fell into disuse.

    In the 1930s, Tesla revived the idea of tele-geodynamics to create small, realtively harmless temblors to relieve stress, rather than having to wait in fear for nature to take it's course. Perhaps this idea did not remain the idle speculation of a scientist whose star had never been on the ascendant since the turn of the century, and we occasionally experience the devious machinations of invisible "earthquake merchants" at the behest of the unseen hands who wish to experiment on and control the populace.

    http://www.excludedmiddle.com/earthquake.htm
    Last edited by luciano; 07-28-2007 at 01:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Short Biography on Nikola Tesla

    *************************************************

    Eccentric Serbian-American engineer who made many contributions to the invention of electromagnetic devices. Tesla was Serb who was born in the Croatian village of Smiljan in the Lika region, which at the time was part of Austrian monarchy. His father was an orthodox church priest.

    Tesla had a keen memory and ability to visualize and construct complicated objects in his mind's eye. While working on his first job with the American Telephone Company in Budapest in 1880, Tesla suffered a nervous breakdown in which he claimed to suffer from a Edgar Allen Poe-like hypersensitivity of perception (Hunt and Draper 1991, p. 32). After he recovered, he was walking with a friend when the idea for the polyphase system of generating alternating current suddenly occurred to him. As of yet, he did not possess the means to actually build the necessary equipment.

    Tesla was hired by the French branch of the Edison Company and assigned the job of repairing an electrical plant in Strassburg. Upon completion of the repairs, however, the Edison Company refused to pay the money it had promised. Tesla quit, and set his hopes on obtaining work in America. Strangely enough, once in America, he went to work for Edison. After promising $50,000 to Tesla if he would improve DC motors, Edison reneged on his word, dismissing the promise as "American humor." Tesla was furious and quit immediately. Unfortunately, Tesla was not able to find other work, so he was forced to dig ditches for two years.

    Finally, he obtained work at Westinghouse's Pittsburgh labs. He told Westinghouse about his idea for the polyphase system, which would allow alternating current [AC] electricity to be transmitted over large distances. Edison, however, had invested heavily in direct current [DC] systems and fought AC with everything he had. Westinghouse saw the advantages of Tesla's system, and agreed to buy the patent rights for one million dollars plus a $1 per horsepower royalty. Westinghouse built power plants and transmission lines, proving once and for all that AC power was an economical and workable system, while Edison's impractical DC never got very far off the ground. Westinghouse used the polyphase system to harness the power of Niagra Falls in a hydroelectric plant.

    Using the money he received from Westinghouse, Tesla founded the Tesla Electric Company in New York. Here, he invested time and money creating exotic new electric devices, including the Tesla coil. Tesla's biographer O'Neill reported the untenable story (which was echoed by subsequent biographers) that among these devices was a fist-sized vibrator which was capable up setting up resonances and creating a man-made earthquake. In any case, Tesla's lab burnt to the ground of March 13, 1895. Everything was lost, as Tesla had no insurance.

    Tesla moved to Colorado Springs, where he built a new laboratory and performed more experiments using a monstrous Tesla coil. According to O'Neill once again, Tesla used this to generate man-made lightning. He then moved back to New York and began the construction of a lab with a huge tower in Wardenclyffe, Long Island. The lab was never completed, and the tower was eventually knocked down. There may have been some unusual maneuvering in the awarding of the 1912 or 1915 Nobel Prize. Biographer disagree on the dates, but report that Tesla was confidentially informed that he was to share the physics award with Edison, and was then surprised to see it go to a scientist (Hunt and Draper 1991, pp. 166-171).

    Tesla was highly eccentric in his behavior and absolutely impractical with money. One of his compulsions was his daily feeding of the pigeons in New York. He is reported to have become attached to a dove, and his biographers report that the death of this pigeon, whom he regarded with an emotion resembling love, dealt him a shattering blow (Hunt and Draper 1991, pp. 192-193). Tesla was destitute for the last years of his life and was forced to move from one hotel to another when he got behind in his bills. Upon Tesla's death, his papers were impounded by the Custodian of Alien Property.

    http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Tesla.html
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    16

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Very good short bio on Tesla. When it is all said and done, he was still a genius and a lousy businessman. But I still tip my hat to the man.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Quote Originally Posted by tesla770
    Very good short bio on Tesla. When it is all said and done, he was still a genius and a lousy businessman. But I still tip my hat to the man.

    Thanks, yeah he was really eccentric and didnt take care of his personal finances right. Its crazy to think he was digging ditches to gain money for his projects. I guess a lot of the geniuses are eccentric too though. I really wish he got more credit for his accomplishments though, he basically invented electricity. Sure Edison was technically first with his DC power but Tesla's AC power is what we use today. Like I said, I don't really believe the stories about the death ray causing the event in Siberia, I just thought I'd share it with the science forum members. I had a teacher who loved this guy in my first year of college and after hearing about him from the teacher, I have been interested in Tesla. Tesla was probably born too early. I'll probably post some more of the theories of what happened in Siberia in 1908 tomorrow since thats what I named the thread, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    16

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Actually your Tesla theory is probably one of the saner explanations I have heard. Granted there is no shortage of crackpot theories.

    I was ssudying electroniics years ago and when I learned that Tesla invented AC, I was surprised to find their wasn't much information on his life at the time. You could find more than you ever wanted to on Edison.

    With the Internet, there is a lot more information available. Some good, some not very good.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    5

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Tesla is my favorite inventor period... and i agree, odd how we hear about Edison, Write brothers, etc.. but you don't hear about the man that made the 20th century possible.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Mystery Space Blast "Solved"

    Astronomers may have solved the puzzle of what it was that brought so much devastation to a remote region of Siberia almost a century ago.


    In the early morning of 30 June, 1908, witnesses told of a gigantic explosion and blinding flash. Thousands of square kilometres of trees were burned and flattened.

    Scientists have always suspected that an incoming comet or asteroid lay behind the event - but no impact crater was ever discovered and no expedition to the area has ever found any large fragments of an extraterrestrial object.

    Now, a team of Italian researchers believe they may have the definitive answer. After combining never-before translated eyewitness accounts with seismic data and a new survey of the impact zone, the scientists say the evidence points strongly to the object being a low-density asteroid.

    They even think they know from where in the sky the object came.

    Completely disintegrated

    "We now have a good picture of what happened," Dr Luigi Foschini, one of the expedition's leaders, told BBC News Online.

    The explosion, equivalent to 10-15 million tonnes of TNT, occurred over the Siberian forest, near a place known as Tunguska.

    Only a few hunters and trappers lived in the sparsely populated region, so it is likely that nobody was killed. Had the impact occurred over a European capital, hundreds of thousands would have perished.

    A flash fire burned thousands of trees near the impact site. An atmospheric shock wave circled the Earth twice. And, for two days afterwards, there was so much fine dust in the atmosphere that newspapers could be read at night by scattered light in the streets of London, 10,000 km (6,213 miles) away.

    But nobody was dispatched to see what had happened as the Czars had little interest in what befell the backward Tungus people in remote central Siberia.

    Soil samples

    The first expedition to reach the site arrived in 1930, led by Soviet geologist L A Kulik, who was amazed at the scale of the devastation and the absence of any impact crater. Whatever the object was that came from space, it had blown up in the atmosphere and completely disintegrated.

    Nearly a century later, scientists are still debating what happened at that remote spot. Was it a comet or an asteroid? Some have even speculated that it was a mini-black hole, though there is no evidence of it emerging from the other side of the Earth, as it would have done.

    What is more, none of the samples of soil, wood or water recovered from the impact zone have been able to cast any light on what the Tunguska object actually was.

    Researchers from several Italian universities have visited Tunguska many times in the past few years. Now, in a pulling together of their data and information from several hitherto unused sources, the scientists offer an explanation about what happened in 1908.

    Possible orbits

    They analysed seismic records from several Siberian monitoring stations, which combined with data on the directions of flattened trees gives information about the object's trajectory. So far, over 60,000 fallen trees have been surveyed to determine the site of the blast wave.

    We performed a detailed analysis of all the available scientific literature, including unpublished eye-witness accounts that have never been translated from the Russian," said Dr Foschini. "This allowed us to calculate the orbit of the cosmic body that crashed."

    The object appears to have approached Tunguska from the southeast at about 11 km per second (7 miles a second). Using this data, the researchers were able to plot a series of possible orbits for the object.

    Of the 886 valid orbits that they calculated, over 80% of them were asteroid orbits with only a minority being orbits that are associated with comets. But if it was an asteroid why did it break up completely?

    "Possibly because the object was like asteroid Mathilde, which was photographed by the passing Near-Shoemaker spaceprobe in 1997. Mathilde is a rubble pile with a density very close to that of water. This would mean it could explode and fragment in the atmosphere with only the shock wave reaching the ground."

    The research will be published in a forthcoming edition of the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1628806.stm
    Last edited by luciano; 07-29-2007 at 09:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Quote Originally Posted by tesla770
    Actually your Tesla theory is probably one of the saner explanations I have heard. Granted there is no shortage of crackpot theories.

    I was ssudying electroniics years ago and when I learned that Tesla invented AC, I was surprised to find their wasn't much information on his life at the time. You could find more than you ever wanted to on Edison.

    With the Internet, there is a lot more information available. Some good, some not very good.

    Yes, growing up your taught about Edison, then that teacher told me about Tesla and I was really surprised. He also invented radio, but it took until 1943 after he was dead I think for the Supreme Court to recognize it. Marconi got the credit. If it wasn't for Tesla we might have been changing light bulbs every two hours, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: 1908 Tunguska "Event" in Siberia

    Quote Originally Posted by zathis
    Tesla is my favorite inventor period... and i agree, odd how we hear about Edison, Write brothers, etc.. but you don't hear about the man that made the 20th century possible.

    Me too, I was on another forum that had a link for one of those quizzes you do and then it tells you which scientist you are most like, there were 20 scientists on the quiz, Edison was one of them, Tesla wasn't. Needless to say, I didn't do the quiz :D
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-31-2016, 10:42 PM
  2. "Death" of "Amy Winehouse" alias "Lady Gaga" was a joke
    By TruthIsNeverTooHorrible in forum Conspiracy Theories
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-28-2016, 08:57 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-03-2016, 10:43 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-27-2012, 07:44 AM
  5. Opening DNC event an "eye opener" for Obama
    By Grim17 in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-24-2008, 10:15 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •