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  1. #1
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    Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    I thought it would be useful to have a thread where the many lies, misleading statements, exaggerations, etc. of mortgage acceleration companies and agents.

    I'm going to start out with the Mortgage Accelerator Plus "Mini MAP" document.

    "Most mortgages are front end loaded"

    I've never seen a front end loaded mortgage, all the mortgages I've seen are simple interest loans. A front end loaded loan effectively charges you for interest up front that isn't really due until later in the life of the loan. The effect of a front end loan is that if you pay the loan off early you will end up paying a higher interest rate. A simple interest loan charges you interest based on the balance. The amusing thing with this false claim by MAP is that you really wouldn' want to pay off a front end loaded loan. An example of a front end loaded loan is a "Rule of 78" loan.

    That you simply pay more interest when your loan balance is higher is NOT "front end loaded".

  2. #2
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    Here is another statement from the MAP "Mini MAP" document:

    "Did you know that your mortgage is reamortized EVERY single day of the year?"

    The vast majority of 1st mortgages do not re-amortize "EVERY single day". Conventional 1st mortgages NEVER re-amortize. Further, the vast majority of conventional 1st mortgages don't compute interest on a daily basis, they do so on a monthly basis.

  3. #3
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    BTW, while "Norm and Mike" sell their Mini Map document for the low, low price of $74.95 but if you would like to know where to obtain this same document ABSOLUTELY FREE and completely legally (ie no copyright infringement issues) please contact me with a private message and I will give tell you how to get the document ABSOLUTELY FREE (and you don't have to fill out any forms, sign up or do anything but get the document).

  4. #4
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    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    I never heard of thie "Mini Map" document but it appears these promoters don't know a damned thing about mortgages. Just scamming people to buy their bad info.


    Lady Mod

    .

  5. #5
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    Here is a wonderful example of a misleading statement. A very long answer when they could have said "Simply put, you indeed can achieve the same results or better very simply by making extra principal payments, keeping your excess cash in a savings account and not paying some moron salesman $3500."

    Q. Why canít I make extra principal payments to my primary mortgage and achieve the same results?
    A. Simply put, the mathematics behind MMA present a sophisticated process that has a substantial financial benefit over increasing your monthly payments. The algorithms in the proprietary MMA system are systematically programmed to create the highest interest savings possible in the least amount of time. The math engines programmed in the MMA system calculate the specific timing and dollar amounts required to produce the most optimum savings on each individual mortgage and overall financial situation.

  6. #6
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    How many of these mortgage acceleration scheme salespeople have you seen telling you that their product has a 100% GUARANTEE?

    So what's the truth? Well it might not quite be a 100% GUARANTEE, here is the wording from one of these firm's Policies and Procedures manual:

    "Customers have three business days (72 hours) after the sale or execution
    of a contract to cancel the order and receive a full refund consistent with
    the cancellation notice on the MMA New Client Fee Authorization Form (5
    days for Alaska, 120 hours)."

    What? 3 days?

    Guess the folks touting the 100% Moneyback Guarantee forgot to mention that little detail.

  7. #7
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    A followup to the previous misleading statement, the infamous 100% GUARANTEE.

    No such guarantee exists. What does exist is a "Limited Guarantee" which the firm says (to its agents, not to the client) "This is a hold harmless clause that protects United First Financial ...".

    The do not guarantee your results, despite that claim by several agents. They merely guarantee that if your income and expenses are as described in the analysis the payoff term will be as described. Well DUHHH. The do NOT guarantee that their agents didn't mislead you into thinking the product was doing something wonderful that it is not. They do NOT guarantee that the listed "discretionary income" is correct. They do NOT guarantee that your $3500 was well spent.

    Funny how that 100% GUARANTEE touted by low life agents is nothing of the sort, except in the mathematically challenged world of MoneyManager where "limited" and "100%" might mean the same thing.

  8. #8
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    Now how about those agents who, in a wildly fantastic bit of speculation about a 1 year old company being around in 30-40 years, tell you that your $3500 "investment" is a great deal because after you pay off your house you can buy another house and do it again? Did they lie? What about their claim that you can use it for multiple properties?

    Seems so given that the Agent Guide specifically says that there is an additional $500 activation fee if you sell your house after it was paid off and buy a new one or the statement that says it isn't designed to manage multiple properties?

  9. #9
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    A perfect example of how these companies lie is contained, amazingly enough, in their very own Agent Guide.

    They provide an example of a couple with a $200K loan at 6% who are paid $2500 every other week. Their expenses (excluding their mortgage) are listed as $2800.90, the analysis falsely claims their monthly income is $5000 and therefore their discretionary income is $1000/mo.

    That is flatly false and understates their actual average monthly income by $416.67 and understates their average discretionary income by the same amount.

    By doing so they make their analysis of a 21.7 year reduction in payoff look pretty good compared to plugging the same $1000 in discretionary income into an amortization calculator as an additional monthly payment. But since the real number is $1416.67, when you plug that in you see that you pay off your mortgage in 21.92 fewer years.

    Gee, just taking your discretionary income and applying it to your mortgage generates a BETTER result than the HELOC money shuffle.

    Pretty shocking news if you just coughed up $3500 in the belief that the early pay off was due to the money shuffling and not you digging an extra $1416.67 out of your pocket every month.

    BTW, no credit cards for payment and personal checks get a 10 day hold. Can't be having unhappy people doing a charge back.

  10. #10
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    BTW, just so nobody is confused. I have no relationship with any mortgage company or mortgage acceleration company (other than I have a mortgage) and I've never worked for, been an agent for or represented any of them and I am not a competitor. I have no axe to grind, my motivation is simply an interest that the truth be told.

    I find it utterly misleading bull**** to tell people things like:

    "Through federal lending guidelines and the MMA you are eligible to pay less interest than compared to a standard 30-year mortgage at 1.657%". Everyone is eligible to pay less interest, just prepay your mortgage.

  11. #11
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    thetruthbetold...I represent the Home Ownership Accelerator and in skimming through your posts' i think alot of your concerns are valid.

    The one thing I can see you are hung up on is interest reduction. You are right you could apply your accumulated savings and pay towards principal, but your loan would never recast and thus would save you less interest. This method only takes payments off the back of the loan, it doesn't even change your payment. Secondly and most important is the fact that once you do pay principal with savings how are you going to get at the money without refinancing???

    The HOA program is designed to pay down principal at about an average of 8.2% per year. The average portfolio loan pays off at 4.0% per year! Why refi everytime you need to get back at your money. This program is different then the MMA your talking about but the HOA is hands down the best thing out there!

  12. #12
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    How about:

    "Using a Money Merge Account, you can pay off your loan quicker with no change in your daily routine."

    That's a flat out lie and contradiction. To pay down your loan quicker, you need to take money from what you currently spend it on, and apply it to the loan. That is absolutely a change in your daily routine.
    Last edited by helix; 08-31-2007 at 08:16 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    Quote Originally Posted by qsnoop
    The one thing I can see you are hung up on is interest reduction.
    I'm not hung up on anything. I certainly haven't given any suggestion I'm hung up on interest reduction. Indeed I've made it clear what really matters is your increase in wealth (net worth).

    Quote Originally Posted by qsnoop
    You are right you could apply your accumulated savings and pay towards principal, but your loan would never recast and thus would save you less interest.
    Nonsense, "recast" is mumbo-jumbo. And while you CLAIM I would save less interest the fact is I would not. I've published my spreadsheet and would be happy to run any scenario you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by qsnoop
    This method only takes payments off the back of the loan, it doesn't even change your payment.
    Prepaying a loan doesn't "take payments off the back of the loan", it reduces your principle balance and reduces the amount of interest you pay on a loan starting with your VERY NEXT PAYMENT. Not years later, interest charged the very next month is reduced.

    Quote Originally Posted by qsnoop
    Secondly and most important is the fact that once you do pay principal with savings how are you going to get at the money without refinancing???
    You don't "get at the money", if you need a loan you borrow money. Get a HELOC for emergency cash needs. I don't recommend paying all your available cash towards your mortgage. I love people who claim they are "tapping their equity" or "getting at their money" when all they are really doing is GETTING A LOAN and using their home as collateral.

    Quote Originally Posted by qsnoop
    The HOA program is designed to pay down principal at about an average of 8.2% per year. The average portfolio loan pays off at 4.0% per year! Why refi everytime you need to get back at your money. This program is different then the MMA your talking about but the HOA is hands down the best thing out there!
    Unfortunately all you are doing is blowing hot air. You aren't telling the truth and you can't put up numbers to support your claim.
    Last edited by thetruthbetold; 08-31-2007 at 08:13 AM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    For those that aren't aware, the mortgage acceleration scheme qsnoop is promoting is THE WORST ONE IN THE WORLD. It has you make the utterly moronic move of using a HIGH INTEREST HELOC to pay off your ENTIRE LOW INTEREST mortgage.

    It's like the UFF scheme except they borrow the entire amount of your mortgage up front.

    As I've shown with the UFF scheme, the more you borrow to prepay the worse your results. qsnoop takes it to the limit with the ABSOLUTELY worse results.

    There are other reasons why is it an absolutely TERRIBLE idea to replace a 1st mortgage with a HELOC:

    1) A first mortgage can't be foreclosed on as long as you make your payments, a HELOC can be CANCELED by your lender if your financial situation changes and/or the value of your home drops.

    2) A 1st mortgage you obtained when you purchased your house can be walked away from in many states with the only financial repercussion being a hit to your credit score. Walk away from a HELOC and you'll end up with a judgment against you.

    I always love it when morons promoting worthless products show up and try to explain that their product is wonderful because of some nifty phrase they just cooked up. With qsnoop it is "recasting". qsnoop and his fellow HOA morons use the phrase because they can't actually show a month by month scenario where trading in a low interest loan for a high interest loan makes any sense at all.

    In other words, they blow smoke up people's asses and hope nobody asks for them to produce some actual numbers.

  15. #15
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    TRUTH BE TOLD: your not in the mortgage business, obviously by your outragous comments.

    SO let me set you straight. The portfolios performing at 4% is public record. THe HOA performing at 8.2% is public record. Theres nothing to hide although you would seem to think there is.

    And I would trust you as far as I could throw you because you just made a false statement in saying that you take out a HIGH INTEREST RATE HELOC. Proof again you know nothing about this program as it is not a HELOC; its a 1st Mtg. AND the rate TODAY is 6.32% with a 660 credit score, full doc and 80% LTV. My clients who want a 30 yr fixed with A 720, full doc and 80LTV the rates are running 7%.

    Again, i'm in the business, you are not....who is the consumer going to trust?
    The NUMBERS DON"T LIE!

    YOUR BLATANT LIES PROVE YOU SHOULD NOT BE EVEN CONVERSING ON THIS TOPIC UNTIL YOU ARE BETTER INFORMED.

    I had a client who had a loan at Wells Fargo for 860,000. Her total payoff was around 1.7 million. She refi'd into this loan, her total payoff is 1.2 mill and it will be free and clear in less than 4years. I just saved her 500,000 no matter HOW YOU run the numbers.

    You keep your money in your bank and let them continue to make money off of you!!!

  16. #16
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    Re: Mortgage acceleration lies and misleading statements

    Truth be told -you give me your current mortgage situation, ie: interest rate, years left, principal balance and I'll blow it out of the water....i'll post it all over this website and i'll never see you post on this site again in regards to the HOA!

    Unless of course you don't have a mortgage!!! HA HA HA HA HA

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