+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 53

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Israel: A Country without Borders

    Obstacles to peace: Borders and settlements

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6669545.stm

    The BBC News website is publishing a series of articles about the attempts to achieve peace in the Middle East and the main obstacles. Martin Asser looks at the question of Israel's borders and settlements.


    The modern Israeli state was forged in the fires of the first Middle East war in 1948-1949, but from the beginning it was a state without clear borders.

    The fact that complete, permanent borders still haven't been drawn 60 years later is testimony to the rancour of Israel's relations with neighbouring Arab states.

    Peace talks have taken place - Jordan and Egypt signed treaties with Israel turning 1949 ceasefire lines into state borders.

    But the absence of a final settlement with Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinians mean Israel's borders and the state itself remain inherently unstable.

    In 1948, when British rule of Palestine ended, Israeli forces managed to push most of the Arab forces that joined the war to the former Mandate boundaries, which became temporary ceasefire lines.

    The exceptions were what we now know as the West Bank, which remained under Jordanian control, and the Gaza Strip, which was controlled by Egypt.

    Thus Israel came into being on 78% of the former Palestine, rather than the 55% allocated under the UN partition plan.

    Parts of Israel's central region were just 15km (9 miles) wide, and strategic Jordanian-held territory overlooked the whole coastal region.

    Exceptions

    Fast forward to 1967, when Israel captured both the West Bank and Gaza Strip, as well as Syria's Golan Heights and Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

    Israeli-controlled land now stretched from the Jordan Valley in the east and the Suez Canal to the west; it completely enclosed the Sea of Galilee in the north, and gave it a foothold on the Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea.

    The Sinai was exchanged for peace with Egypt in the early 1980s (at about the time Israel occupied south Lebanon, where it remained until withdrawing unilaterally in May 2000).

    So it was more than 30 years after the foundation of Jewish state that it acquired its first recognised international border with an Arab neighbour.

    Jordan became the second treaty holder with Israel, agreeing river borders in the north and a demarcated desert border south of the Dead Sea.

    The boundary between Jordan and the occupied West Bank was agreed, but "without prejudice to the status of the territory".

    But such deals are the exception, and the state of Israel and its neighbours have had to live with the insecurity of moveable boundaries and an assortment of different coloured lines ("green", "purple" and "blue").

    Consolidation

    Politically, the most important of the Green Lines - as the 1949 ceasefire lines were called - is the one dividing Israel from the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

    Occupying the West Bank in 1967 was an important strategic gain in Israeli eyes, and successive governments have ignored the Green Line and built numerous Jewish settlements on the territory.

    The settlements are illegal under international law, but Israel disputes this and has pressed ahead with its activity despite signing agreements to limit settlement growth.

    Today, about 400,000 settlers live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

    The land is strategically significant, but in Judaism is also religiously and historically so.

    The first settlers were religious Jews who remained in Hebron after celebrating Passover there in 1968.

    The settlement movement has become closely affiliated to Jewish religious nationalism, which claims boundaries of modern Israel based on Genesis 15:18: "God made a covenant with Abram and said, 'To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates'."

    On both political and religious grounds, therefore, it is extremely risky for any Israeli politician to dabble in land-for-peace deals or unilateral pullbacks from occupied territory.

    This is especially true after the 2006 war over Lebanon, when Hezbollah militants showed the effectives of rocket attacks as a terror weapon from the north, given Israel's vulnerability at the centre.

    State solutions

    From the Arab viewpoint, the acceptable territorial solution for a Palestinian-Israeli settlement is withdrawal from all the 1967 land.

    Saudi Arabia has proposed such a formula in return for Israel gaining normal diplomatic relations with all Arab countries.

    Israel has sought to ring-fence East Jerusalem from any territorial retreat, and it hopes to annex the largest settlement blocs on the east side of the Green Line, which house a large majority of settlers.

    This would involve adjustments to the Green Line, perhaps involving Israel swapping its territory for the settlements Ariel, Modiin Illit, Maale Adumim, Gush Etzion, etc.

    Removing thousands of hardline settlers from other smaller, more isolated outposts would be a difficult task, however, even for the most secure of Israeli governments.

    Further territorial compromises by the Palestinians (having already been squeezed into 22% of pre-1948 Palestine) could be a bitter pill for their leadership to swallow as well.

    Then a Palestinian state could be established in the West Bank and Gaza, from which Israel pulled troops and settlers in 2005.

    Not all Palestinians, however, want a two-state solution.

    Hamas, which won the 2006 Palestinian parliamentary election, wants at all costs to avoid a peace deal with Israel that involves drawing permanent borders, because its wider aim is to establish a single, Islamic state within the borders of pre-1948 Palestine.

    They argue that such a state, with the return of 1948 refugees, would have an impregnable and growing Arab, Muslim majority, spelling the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

    In the long term, therefore, Israel's reluctance to accept the existing Green Line in many ways plays into the hands of militant Islamist groups such as Hamas.
    Last edited by Americanadian; 06-08-2007 at 02:44 AM.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Please stop with the Israel crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by luciano
    Please stop with the Israel crap.
    Are you the arbiter of Scam.com? No...therefore, take a hike if you don't like it.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by luciano
    Please stop with the Israel crap.
    No one is stopping you from creating your own threads on your own subjects. Don't tell other people not to make them like he has some obligation to entertain your interests.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,120

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by luciano
    Please stop with the Israel crap.
    If you read this forum, you would think that 90% of worlds problems are happening inside Israel. That what inti-semites want you to think.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by borisf96
    If you read this forum, you would think that 90% of worlds problems are happening inside Israel. That what inti-semites want you to think.
    Two other big sources of evil I find are Saudi Arabia and Communist China. I think importing oil and manufactured products from these countries needs to be heavily reduced. It's a shame our government doesn't do more against it.

    But in terms of Israel, it's a very significant issue, because it factors into 9/11, the war on Iraq and eventually Iran. The enormity of the money being poured into defending this particular land debt is so staggering that it really is worth discussing and debating, to say the least.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by borisf96
    If you read this forum, you would think that 90% of worlds problems are happening inside Israel. That what inti-semites want you to think.
    Cool! What's an "inti-Semite"? Someone who likes Semites?
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,120

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by Americanadian
    Cool! What's an "inti-Semite"? Someone who likes Semites?
    No it somebody who gets f*cked by Semites.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by borisf96
    No it somebody who gets f*cked by Semites.
    I'm not sure your mother would appreciate that kind of talk. They like to be called "ladies". And Semites rock.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,467

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by Americanadian

    thats a bit uncalled for dont ya think? Are you 13 yet? Seriously are you old enough to be on this forum, isnt the legal age 13?
    Quote Originally Posted by gussser
    DC You post on so many different subjects that it hard to keep up with it all. Unconfuse me---ARE YOU JEWISH?????
    Take the Quiz! Are you left?Right? Middle?

    The Quiz!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    The insult matches are starting to go too far. I really don't want to see what's worse than a monkey peeing on a country's flag.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,578

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald
    The insult matches are starting to go too far. I really don't want to see what's worse than a monkey peeing on a country's flag.
    How about a monkey pissing on the Stars and Bars? Isn't that what the neo-cons have been doing since 9/11 with such things as warrantless surveillance legislation, condoning torture, and their blatant hate of the Constitution?
    No, the picture isn't pretty, but neither is what Bush is doing to America.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    To be honest, I hope the moderator takes down the posts containing that animated GIF of the monkey. A flag represents everyone in the country, regardless of their political ideology. I don't think any country's flag should be mistreated, even if it's a country you're at war with.

    With Americanadian's permission, because I don't think he should be censored, I'd like to see it taken down.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    The foundation of Israel since its inception was built upon tyranny, oppression, murder, intimidation, instilling fear into other ethnicities, theft, extortion, blackmail, deception, fraud, and much more.

    Israel is able to attack America and kill/maim Americans, participate in active land theft, ethnic cleansing, extortion and blackmail of any group it sees fit, and people are offended by a fu.cking cartoon of a monkey pissing on an Israeli flag? That's something else.

    You know what? Fu.ck Israel. The Zionist government needs more contempt from people in the International Community. That flag represents everything a moral human being with an operational conscience should abhor. Their conduct throughout recorded history for the past 60 years is evidence they don't deserve one iota of respect until they begin to acknowledge other ethicities' right to exist. Period!
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    5,803

    Re: Israel: A Country without Borders

    Quote Originally Posted by luciano
    thats a bit uncalled for dont ya think?
    Not at all. See the my previous post.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-30-2014, 08:37 PM
  2. Israel and USA are the same country
    By caparica007 in forum Conspiracy Theories
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-03-2014, 05:52 PM
  3. USA Ordered To Punish Any Country Israel Dislikes
    By dchristie in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-28-2009, 07:02 AM
  4. Obama endorses Auschwitz borders
    By David Ben-Ariel in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-19-2008, 11:02 AM
  5. This Needs TO Be Seen On The 4th of July Close The Borders
    By hello1122 in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 09:02 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •