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  1. #1
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    Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    I prefer not to hear from the unbelievers because you do not have an answer to my question. I am not out to slam any religion. I am only wishing to understand this particular one as I have children & grandchildren involved.

    This church claims to be Freewill Baptist.
    The pastor dominates, controls & I perceive even manipulates the parishoners(so cleverly disguised, though) to see things the way he mandates. If a man can act godly, as this sect perceives godly as authorized in the bible, then I suppose he does. I see him as a very decent man, father & husband, a very well-informed preacher & decent speaker. It appears that with him, all of life revolves around church & the salvation of non-believers 1st, his family 2nd, grabbing a rifle & his sons to go hunting for wild game 3rd.

    Over the age of 6, the girls & women in the church wear dresses & skirts only (and always below the knee). Never, EVER slacks or shorts. The rare occasions of my visits, I noticed that women seldom speak & when they do, it is with such submissive humbleness that I felt like I was in the midst of The Stepford Wives. They do cut & color their hair & they wear make-up. They still appear to be in competition with one another in some way, shape, or form, as most parishoners of any church does. That part is no different.

    The men wear only long sleeve shirts in church, even in 110 degree weather. However, he is permitted & does wears shorts to casual events, but not if the event is with the church. The women however, must never, EVER wear shorts. Once a teenage girl came to their church in a very short & provocative skirt. She was instructed to sit on the back pew. :confused:

    They all seem to be under bondage to home-school their children, claiming that the secular world is an awful ungodly place for children & the devil reigns there. I have heard the preacher say this in a sermon.
    The children are the best behaved, sweet, reverent, and extremely smart children I have ever seen. However, they do not know how to interact with "outsiders", yet they are instructed to visit & witness to so many new families (visitation) each week. They actually go door to door doing this.

    I realize that they feel the calling to witness to the world & separate themselves from ungodly behavior, but my questions to those who believe in God; Why the double standard between men & women with the shorts? How does all of this behavior get one closer?

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    How does all of this behavior get one closer?
    It doesn't. Your description of this group smacks of cult practices. Be very careful, and try to lead your family away from them if you can.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption

    I realize that they feel the calling to witness to the world & separate themselves from ungodly behavior, but my questions to those who believe in God; Why the double standard between men & women with the shorts? How does all of this behavior get one closer?
    Men are visually stimulated by the appearance of a womans body is the thinking.

    That being said, I was in a church with a dress code, however, it went for men as well as women. Men not to wear shorts, women not to wear shorts but capris, gauchos, skirts or dresses were fine. And NO ONE was shunned if they attended in other clothes or treated any differently. If they had been our pastor would have pitched a fit. We had a dress code but it was one of showing by example, not demanding a certain kind of clothing to attend.

    Men made all the business decisions, women didn't attend those meetings, and that's because of the scriptures that say Men will be held to higher accountability than the women. But it was a Fundamental Baptist church, not a freewill one.

    Dress codes are usually established from tradition or the pastor. Usually because that is what he believes. If you find worship like this too restrictive, find a different kind of Baptist church. Fundamentals are more conservative, Southern are more liberal and they are governed by the Southern Baptist convention (the Vatican for Southern Baptists).

    You might find below interesting.

    ********************************

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Will_Baptist_Church

    Free Will Baptist Church (or Free Will Baptists) is a group of churches that share a common history, name, and an acceptance of the Arminian theology of free grace, free salvation, and free will, based on the idea of general atonement. Free Will Baptists share similar soteriological views with General Baptists, Separate Baptists and some United Baptists. The autonomous power of the local church is highly valued. The denomination remains relatively rural and is especially strong in the southern United States.

    Free Will Baptist Doctrine is distinguished from the majority of Baptist groups (including the Southern Baptist Convention and her offshoots, as well as fundamentalist Baptists) in that Free Will Baptists reject the popular Baptist view of "unconditional perseverance of the saints," (also commonly referred to as the "Doctrine of Unconditional Eternal security" or "once saved, always saved"), which is based on the Calvinist teaching. Instead, Free Will Baptist Doctrine holds to the traditional Arminian position, based on the belief in a General Atonement, that it is possible to commit apostasy, or willfully reject one's faith. Faith is the condition for salvation, hence Free Will Baptists hold to "conditional eternal security." An individual is "saved by faith and kept by faith." The concept is not of someone sinning occasionally and thus accidentally ending up "not saved", but instead of someone "repudiating" their faith in Christ. Free Will Baptists believe that an individual maintains his or her free will to follow Christ, but in the event a believer turns from faith in Christ, there is no remedy for this apostasy (based on an interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6).

    Free Will Baptists also observe The Washing of the Saints' Feet as a third ordinance of the church along with Baptism and Communion, a rite common among other evangelical groups but not practiced by the majority of Baptist denominations.

    Additionally, Free Will Baptist congregations believe the Bible is the completed, inerrant word of God, and believe in a primarily literal interpretation of Scripture.

    Free Will Baptist congregations hold differing views on eschatology. Traditionally, churches in the eastern part of the country have tended to follow a premillennial interpretation, while western churches often hold an amillennial view. Churches commonly advocate (voluntary) tithing, totally abstaining from alcoholic beverages, and not working on the Sabbath.

    Free Will Baptists are involved in mission efforts around the world.

    Free Will Baptists can be traced to General Baptists from England who settled in the American colonies in the late seventeenth century. The first Baptists, who originated with the ministry of Thomas Helwys near London in 1611, were General Baptists. That is, they believed that the atonement of Jesus Christ was "general" (for all) rather than "particular" (only for the elect). Thus, they were Arminian in doctrine.

    One of these English General Baptists who settled in the American colonies was Benjamin Laker, who arrived in colonial Carolina as early as 1685. Laker had been associated with the illustrious General Baptist theologian and writer, Thomas Grantham, and had signed the 1663 edition of the General Baptists' Standard Confession of Faith. The earliest Free Will Baptists in America arose from English General Baptists in Carolina who were dubbed "Freewillers" by their enemies and later assumed the name.

    Two distinct branches of Free Will Baptists developed in America. The first and earliest was the Palmer movement in North Carolina, from which the vast majority of modern-day Free Will Baptists have their origin. The later movement was the Randall movement, which arose in the late eighteenth century in New Hampshire. These two groups developed independently of each other.


    Read more at the link.


    Namaste'

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    Last edited by sojustask; 05-30-2007 at 02:40 AM.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Men are visually stimulated by the appearance of a womans body is the thinking.
    and women are NOT??????? I mean really now, what breed of human women are not stimulated by men, also?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Men made all the business decisions, women didn't attend those meetings, and that's because of the scriptures that say Men will be held to higher accountability than the women.
    Someone needs to show me this because I understand that we are equally accountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    But it was a Fundamental Baptist church, not a freewill one.
    Come to think of it, I am not 100% sure that it is Freewill and not Fundamental. I just never paid that close attention to the branch, just the legalistic approach.

    I believe I was able to narrow it down to an answer to my questions in one sentence given in your added info. That being;
    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    *The autonomous power of the local church is highly valued.
    Evidently more valued by the "autonomous" leader than anyone. So much so that he may be interpreting the use of biblical principles to feed his own ego. I find it quite interesting that there are no families involved that are say,....... of a very strong caliber. It is far easier to manipulate the meek than the assertive.

    Thanks for the added information.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    and women are NOT??????? I mean really now, what breed of human women are not stimulated by men, also?
    LOL, I didn't say they were very bright did I?

    Someone needs to show me this because I understand that we are equally accountable.
    We are equally accountable for our own sins but it goes back to the marriage scriptures. Man is the head of the house. The pastor is the shepherd, the people the sheep. God is the head of man. That kind of thing. There are a lot of scriptures pertaining to the order. But the accountability goes back to Genesis after Adam and Eve sinned. Eve was tricked by the serpent but Adam willfully chose to sin preferring Eve over God. Men are so weak, what can I say? ;)

    Come to think of it, I am not 100% sure that it is Freewill and not Fundamental. I just never paid that close attention to the branch, just the legalistic approach.

    I believe I was able to narrow it down to an answer to my questions in one sentence given in your added info. That being;
    Evidently more valued by the "autonomous" leader than anyone. So much so that he may be interpreting the use of biblical principles to feed his own ego. I find it quite interesting that there are no families involved that are say,....... of a very strong caliber. It is far easier to manipulate the meek than the assertive.

    Thanks for the added information.
    You are probably right about the legalistic approach. That can actually happen in any branch.

    Anyway, you are quite welcome. I hope I was able to help.

    Namaste'

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    and women are NOT??????? I mean really now, what breed of human women are not stimulated by men, also?
    Mother in laws. :D :cool:
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    I prefer not to hear from the unbelievers because you do not have an answer to my question. I am not out to slam any religion. I am only wishing to understand this particular one as I have children & grandchildren involved.

    This church claims to be Freewill Baptist.
    The pastor dominates, controls & I perceive even manipulates the parishoners(so cleverly disguised, though) to see things the way he mandates. If a man can act godly, as this sect perceives godly as authorized in the bible, then I suppose he does. I see him as a very decent man, father & husband, a very well-informed preacher & decent speaker. It appears that with him, all of life revolves around church & the salvation of non-believers 1st, his family 2nd, grabbing a rifle & his sons to go hunting for wild game 3rd.

    Over the age of 6, the girls & women in the church wear dresses & skirts only (and always below the knee). Never, EVER slacks or shorts. The rare occasions of my visits, I noticed that women seldom speak & when they do, it is with such submissive humbleness that I felt like I was in the midst of The Stepford Wives. They do cut & color their hair & they wear make-up. They still appear to be in competition with one another in some way, shape, or form, as most parishoners of any church does. That part is no different.

    The men wear only long sleeve shirts in church, even in 110 degree weather. However, he is permitted & does wears shorts to casual events, but not if the event is with the church. The women however, must never, EVER wear shorts. Once a teenage girl came to their church in a very short & provocative skirt. She was instructed to sit on the back pew. :confused:

    They all seem to be under bondage to home-school their children, claiming that the secular world is an awful ungodly place for children & the devil reigns there. I have heard the preacher say this in a sermon.
    The children are the best behaved, sweet, reverent, and extremely smart children I have ever seen. However, they do not know how to interact with "outsiders", yet they are instructed to visit & witness to so many new families (visitation) each week. They actually go door to door doing this.

    I realize that they feel the calling to witness to the world & separate themselves from ungodly behavior, but my questions to those who believe in God; Why the double standard between men & women with the shorts? How does all of this behavior get one closer?
    My church doesn't have a "dress code", as if it was written somewhere.

    But if one of our own came in looking like Absolam or Zezebel - and note, outward manifestations often do show an inward spiritual condition, and that is just the way it is, it's called discernment - we'd be concerned for them.

    ***

    Is it possible that these people truly care about the things of the Lord, and that is why they do what they do? But it appears that there's more to the story.

    ***

    And these posts that say they're a cult - the Lord already talked about persecution; on these threads Fundamentalists Baptists are associated with Al Queda and the Taliban - well, they don't know what they're talking about.


    ****

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    This church claims to be Freewill Baptist.
    The pastor dominates, controls & I perceive even manipulates the parishoners(so cleverly disguised, though) to see things the way he mandates.
    Has this man shown evidence of "dominating and manipulating" ? - can you give some examples? in what way?

    What is their polity? Is it congregational?
    But I do agree that the congregation may look up to their pastor too much, when they should be looking to Christ.

    Any signs of abuse, like black-eyes or wife-beating?

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Men are visually stimulated by the appearance of a womans body is the thinking.

    That being said, I was in a church with a dress code, however, it went for men as well as women. Men not to wear shorts, women not to wear shorts but capris, gauchos, skirts or dresses were fine. And NO ONE was shunned if they attended in other clothes or treated any differently. If they had been our pastor would have pitched a fit. We had a dress code but it was one of showing by example, not demanding a certain kind of clothing to attend.

    Men made all the business decisions, women didn't attend those meetings, and that's because of the scriptures that say Men will be held to higher accountability than the women. But it was a Fundamental Baptist church, not a freewill one.

    Dress codes are usually established from tradition or the pastor. Usually because that is what he believes. If you find worship like this too restrictive, find a different kind of Baptist church. Fundamentals are more conservative, Southern are more liberal and they are governed by the Southern Baptist convention (the Vatican for Southern Baptists).

    You might find below interesting.

    ********************************

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Will_Baptist_Church

    Free Will Baptist Church (or Free Will Baptists) is a group of churches that share a common history, name, and an acceptance of the Arminian theology of free grace, free salvation, and free will, based on the idea of general atonement. Free Will Baptists share similar soteriological views with General Baptists, Separate Baptists and some United Baptists. The autonomous power of the local church is highly valued. The denomination remains relatively rural and is especially strong in the southern United States.

    Free Will Baptist Doctrine is distinguished from the majority of Baptist groups (including the Southern Baptist Convention and her offshoots, as well as fundamentalist Baptists) in that Free Will Baptists reject the popular Baptist view of "unconditional perseverance of the saints," (also commonly referred to as the "Doctrine of Unconditional Eternal security" or "once saved, always saved"), which is based on the Calvinist teaching. Instead, Free Will Baptist Doctrine holds to the traditional Arminian position, based on the belief in a General Atonement, that it is possible to commit apostasy, or willfully reject one's faith. Faith is the condition for salvation, hence Free Will Baptists hold to "conditional eternal security." An individual is "saved by faith and kept by faith." The concept is not of someone sinning occasionally and thus accidentally ending up "not saved", but instead of someone "repudiating" their faith in Christ. Free Will Baptists believe that an individual maintains his or her free will to follow Christ, but in the event a believer turns from faith in Christ, there is no remedy for this apostasy (based on an interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6).


    Additionally, Free Will Baptist congregations believe the Bible is the completed, inerrant word of God, and believe in a primarily literal interpretation of Scripture.

    Free Will Baptists can be traced to General Baptists from England who settled in the American colonies in the late seventeenth century. The first Baptists, who originated with the ministry of Thomas Helwys near London in 1611, were General Baptists. That is, they believed that the atonement of Jesus Christ was "general" (for all) rather than "particular" (only for the elect). Thus, they were Arminian in doctrine.


    Read more at the link.
    Namaste'
    Lady Mod

    .
    Interesting, here. My church is Fundamentalist Baptist, but our women vote - anyone who is a member (even teenagers) can vote.

    ****

    And actually, Arminian implies that it's by man's own strength and choosing that he comes to Christ.

    Concerned about their "loss of salvation" doctrine, though - what that means is that justification is by Christ PLUS our own faithfulness. Bad news.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    I find it quite interesting that there are no families involved that are say,....... of a very strong caliber. It is far easier to manipulate the meek than the assertive.
    Is that the condition of this church? Then that's bad news. Sorry to hear that - if this is the case.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    This church, like every group that believes in a religion, is a cult. I avoid them all and encourage my freinds and family to do likewise. But not many heed my warning.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Interesting, here. My church is Fundamentalist Baptist, but our women vote - anyone who is a member (even teenagers) can vote.

    ****
    Ya, I know every church is different in that respect. Women may not have been in the meetings, but trust me, their husbands KNEW how they should vote. LOL. I never worried about it, our men in that church usually made wise decisions and our pastor had enough spine to stand up to any deacon who was not "right" with God. That church flourished. It's the only thing I missed when we moved away 17 years ago. I haven't found one around here that I even like a little bit.

    And actually, Arminian implies that it's by man's own strength and choosing that he comes to Christ.

    Concerned about their "loss of salvation" doctrine, though - what that means is that justification is by Christ PLUS our own faithfulness. Bad news.
    Yep, not good at all. A savior does not need our help "saving".

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    .........But if one of our own came in looking like Absolam or Zezebel - and note, outward manifestations often do show an inward spiritual condition, and that is just the way it is, it's called discernment - we'd be concerned for them.
    Being concerned is one thing, chastising is yet another and I just wonder if Jesus would have shoved anyone to the back of the crowd because they were a distraction to Him or any of the other men. That just seems to go entirely against His teachings, but perhaps there is something that I do not know.

    ***
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Is it possible that these people truly care about the things of the Lord, and that is why they do what they do?
    Oh yes, most definitely possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    ......... But it appears that there's more to the story.
    Yes, and this is what frightens me.

    ***
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    .........Has this man shown evidence of "dominating and manipulating" ? - can you give some examples? in what way?
    Now this is where it gets really, really tricky because evidence is something that consists of solid, indisputable facts & when relating to "behavior" as is with this man, evidence is only perceptional. It is only discernment on my part. During a recreational activity, I observed him quietly standing in a corner, appearing to be observing the behavior of his congregation, he would nod or wink to another man & that man would seem to carry out a task of some sort. He always lurks, never participates, but seems to give the orders for each & every task performed. Where I may see him as manipulative, another may perceive him as a strong & righteous example. I suppose it all boils down to the age old debate of what is & what is not & who we trust to be teaching us the truth. FabFiz explained this best over in the CHAT Forum in his post about "Education & Trust".
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    ......What is their polity? Is it congregational?
    Yes it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    .........Any signs of abuse, like black-eyes or wife-beating?
    None at all. The wives are all perfectly Stepford. They cook all kinds of wonderful goodies, they clean, they serve their men first, then they clean the dishes while the men stand around & chat, they stay pregnant quite often, they home-school their kids, they do everything while their men take credit for being such great men. I must admit though, by comparison to many, the men do appear to be as righteous as men can be.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    Being concerned is one thing, chastising is yet another and I just wonder if Jesus would have shoved anyone to the back of the crowd because they were a distraction to Him or any of the other men.
    Really sorry to hear that. Even if it was of "their own," that still wouldn't be right. This is too bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    they do everything while their men take credit for being such great men.
    You mean they talk about themselves what great guys they are?
    I had no problem with this post except the top part and this one.
    If I understand you correctly, there is a sheer lack of humility. Definitely not the Spirit of Christ.

    Their doctrine is off, and so is their living, if what you say is true.

    Nothing you can do for your relatives, except that the Lord reveal certain things to them - provided you're a believer yourself.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    You mean they talk about themselves what great guys they are?
    No, nothing literal like that. They do not boast out loud. It is just a look of smugness among them as they chat among themselves & the way they keep their wives pregnant, in the kitchen, and chained to traditional chores. God forbid should the woman desire to coach a sports team.

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Their doctrine is off, and so is their living, if what you say is true.
    My guess is that due to my own experiences in life, having lived in the 60's & 70's & not secluded from society that I am probably biased, therefore seeing through smoke covered glasses. Things are never all that they appear, nor usually at all what they appear, so I suppose you are exactly right when you said;
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Nothing you can do for your relatives, except that the Lord reveal certain things to them - provided you're a believer yourself.
    what the heck is this crap?

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wiseroption
    No, nothing literal like that. They do not boast out loud. It is just a look of smugness among them as they chat among themselves & the way they keep their wives pregnant, in the kitchen, and chained to traditional chores. God forbid should the woman desire to coach a sports team.

    My guess is that due to my own experiences in life, having lived in the 60's & 70's & not secluded from society that I am probably biased, therefore seeing through smoke covered glasses. Things are never all that they appear, nor usually at all what they appear, so I suppose you are exactly right when you said;

    Thanks for your honesty.

    It sounds like they really are living for the Lord.
    But that means certain things, Wise.

    You see, scripture says that wives are to be homemakers at home (Titus 2:5). Although this is a command from the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul, how this is applied is virtually infinite.

    If these wives have, say, a business at home (per Proverbs 31) - then great.
    And that is signifigantly different than if a wife says to her husband,
    "I don't gotta listen to you! I'm gonna fly around with my good-looking boss in his Lear jet for two weeks, so I can make lots of money - you punk!"'

    (now, watch, someone who will claim to be a 'Christian' will say "the Bible is false, the book of Titus is false")

    Now, concerning running around being a coach - hey! What's stopping a husband and wife working as a team together -as coaches! - provided she dresses modestly.

    (again, watch, someone who will claim to be a 'Christian' will say "It's my 'Christian liberty' - I don't have to live by principles - I don't care what God or mankind thinks!")



    Please note though, these wives knew what they were getting into. And as a matter of fact, that was what they wanted. If they wanted anything else they would have chosen not to marry.

    The wives of some of my best friends want to be homemakers at home and want to have children.

    But it is possible that some women get married at 18, living a certain 'secluded life' in a way, and find out in their later '20's early '30's that they have a "different mind", kind of like Freidan's '60's feminist movement. But I don't see that too often at all.

    I myself am a product of the '60's. And the feminist thought in that decade was way more radical than the 18th century (schooling), and the early 20th century (voting, being referred to by certain names) - in the '60's it was "Abandon your husband, abandon your kids - live the free life!"

    The so-called "feminism" of the 1700's was actually biblical - it is a good thing for women to get an education, and they can pass that teaching down to their children.

    But the feminism of the '60's was truly immoral and godless. The thought and premise to abandon husbands and children is perverted.


    *******

    Now when you say "smugness", I presume there's an air of arrogance, which is definitely unspiritual.
    But perhaps they have a sense of quiet confidence too, in a way that unbelievers don't have; I've had conversations with unbelievers who tried to have a 'quiet confidence' but in a sarcastic way - they'll fold their arms and say un-thought out things like "There's no God, but I'm going to heaven."
    (if there's no God, then there's no God to create a heaven).

    Anyway, sounds like there's no real issues, like a true cult (that is, the 'leader' has a harem of women, things like that).

    Hopingly, though, the men of the church are thinkers, that is, they've thought things through from scripture by themselves, and don't believe things simply because their pastor "said so."

    ****
    If I had one concern, though, and that is that they (or some) believe in a system of 'good-works' salvation. If that's the case, then members of that church reject historical Christian orthodoxy - they are truly a cultish, then.
    I'd be willing to talk to them, provided they had the maturity to listen without blowing up (or hog-tying me).

    ****
    Thanks for demonstrating concern.

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    Re: Can SOMEONE Pleeeeeeeeeze Help Me Understand a Religious Sect?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Thanks for your honesty.It sounds like they really are living for the Lord.
    and thank you EK. Once again, I see another view. It is so easy for us (me) to view another's perspective as less than right, but often right is as right does within the standard of the isolated community & these people do seem to be happy with their choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    You see, scripture says that wives are to be homemakers at home (Titus 2:5). Although this is a command from the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul, how this is applied is virtually infinite.
    "how this is applied is virtually infinite", is what I perceive to be the very origin of "religion" as mandated by man, not God. My problem is, ALL bible texts are interpretations of the original, so who can rightly conclude which is to be applied in what manner?
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Please note though, these wives knew what they were getting into. And as a matter of fact, that was what they wanted. If they wanted anything else they would have chosen not to marry.
    For the most part, yes, but my step-daughter was converted to this lifestyle & I may be wrong, but she just seems to be under some kind of bondage, even if it is by her choice due to the love she has for her husband.

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    in the '60's it was "Abandon your husband, abandon your kids - live the free life!"......... But the feminism of the '60's was truly immoral and godless. The thought and premise to abandon husbands and children is perverted.
    It was radical & caused a lot of dismay in families.
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Anyway, sounds like there's no real issues, like a true cult (that is, the 'leader' has a harem of women, things like that).
    Hopefully, you are correct.

    Thank you again.
    what the heck is this crap?

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