+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 39

Thread: God v Satan

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    God v Satan

    Source: http://dwindlinginu nbelief.blogspot .com/2006/ 08/who-has- killed-more- satan-or- god.html

    Who has killed more, Satan or God?


    In a previous post, I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,270,365, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers.

    But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?

    Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job.

    There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job ... And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
    ...
    And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD ... put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
    ...
    And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house...And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. -- Job 1:1-19
    So it seems that both Satan and God share the blame (or the credit) for these killings. If so, then the tally would be:

    killings
    God 2,270,365+
    Satan 10


    No contest.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Update
    I've tried to assign numbers to the un-numbered killings in the Bible. You can see the detailed list here.

    The results were even more lopsided: 32.9 million (plus or minus a few million) for God; 0 for Satan.

    Here is a more complete table. numbered killings estimated total killings
    God 2,270,365+ 32.9 million
    Satan 10 10
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  2. #2
    Godeskian is offline I have taken all knowledge to be my province. User Rank
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    763

    Re: God v Satan

    Hope you've got a flame-retardent suit ;)
    Close your eyes, but keep your mind wide open.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Godeskian
    Hope you've got a flame-retardent suit ;)
    :)

    Now obviously, you and I both realise, through common sense, that all of this is a pile of nonsense, there is no supernatural god, or heaven, or hell, but if there was, then ironically, god would be in hell, and satan would be in heaven, if you follow...?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  4. 05-21-2007, 05:16 AM


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    26,313

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
    :)

    Now obviously, you and I both realise, through common sense, that all of this is a pile of nonsense, there is no supernatural god, or heaven, or hell, but if there was, then ironically, god would be in hell, and satan would be in heaven, if you follow...?

    this is SOOOOO...INTELLECTUALLY perceptive!?hehe!!....just askn...
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
    killings
    God 2,270,365+
    Satan 10

    No contest.
    It all depends on what you mean by kill (as opposed to murder, or rightly kill, or let die, or so on). I personally view the number this way:

    God: 180 billion+
    Satan: 1 (or maybe 0)

    You have to go back all the way to the Garden of Eden story, where God warned Adam and Eve that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die. Satan didn't provide the fruit. Satan doesn't have the intelligence to invent death. God did. And I say this as a person who lost my three year old sister to Meningitis, and other loved ones along the way, as we all lose loved ones.

    By the way, if you want to know who that 1 is in the Satan column, it's Jesus. He was the only person God found no evil in, and therefore he did not have to die.

    Think of Satan more like Hezbollah. Lets say Hezbollah fires hundreds of rockets at a neighboring country. That country is forced to retaliate. Now although the country was the one to do the retaliating, it would not have been necessary if not for the people who fire the rockets.

    In other words, sin forces God to punish people. If humankind was not evil, death would not be necessary. The devil himself has no power of his own to kill anyone. The devil has to ask permission of God to do whatever he wants, like he did with the case of Jobe's family. The devil is nothing more than a person limited to manipulating people. He can't murder. He's banished to the dust. We frequently walk on him.

    Now if we compare how many people were MURDERED, not killed, but murdered by people compared to how many were murdered by God, the numbers would look more like this.

    People: hundreds of millions, quite possibly billions
    God: 0
    Last edited by Ronald; 05-21-2007 at 11:34 AM.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    L I B
    Posts
    172

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
    Source: http://dwindlinginu nbelief.blogspot .com/2006/ 08/who-has- killed-more- satan-or- god.html

    Who has killed more, Satan or God?


    In a previous post, I counted the number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,270,365, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers.

    But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?

    Well I can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. I'm talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job.

    There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job ... And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
    ...
    And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD ... put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
    ...
    And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house...And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. -- Job 1:1-19
    So it seems that both Satan and God share the blame (or the credit) for these killings. If so, then the tally would be:

    killings
    God 2,270,365+
    Satan 10


    No contest.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Update
    I've tried to assign numbers to the un-numbered killings in the Bible. You can see the detailed list here.

    The results were even more lopsided: 32.9 million (plus or minus a few million) for God; 0 for Satan.

    Here is a more complete table. numbered killings estimated total killings
    God 2,270,365+ 32.9 million
    Satan 10 10

    Let play a different game, lest we forget.
    Let us for the moment put aside 'God/Satan', yes just pretend they are both on a Sabatical and cannot be contacted what so ever.

    Now lets look deeply at what we see are our world problems/sadness et al.

    How many babies die? Not from a disease or malfunction beyond our ability to assist.

    One per second, so the statistics of such numbers say.

    These 'babies' die from hunger, abuse and basically a distinct lack of loving care.

    Now tell me a definate truth here please?

    Who actually is responsible?!

    But then, you already know the answer, dont you.

    Stop passing the plate with your platters of natter.

    And get into the matter your very self.

    Or close your own 'hole' before it becomes overcrowded and is named a 'warren'.

    Only a suggestion))))))))

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: God v Satan

    Jobe did not curse God for allowing the horrible tragedy that happened to him, but he questioned God, as if to say: "What possible justification do you have for this? What did I possibly do to deserve this? Search me, I've always been good."

    God does not respond by pointing out what Jobe did. Instead, God goes into a long and beautiful speech about all the wonders that he created and asks: "Where were you when I positioned the stars and marked off the dimensions of the world and universe?"

    After God reminds Jobe of how amazing God is, about how generous he is and intelligent he is to create everything, Jobe ceases to ask the question. He realizes who he is talking to. He withdraws his question, and he apologizes. He says: "I SPOKE OF THINGS TOO WONDERFUL FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND."

    And then God proceeds to hold three men to account for not doing a good enough defending God. Their defence of God was so poor, that God held it a sin, but said if Jobe prayed for them no punishment would come upon them.

    The person who best illustrated how flawless God is, besides God himself of course, would be Elihu. It's worth reading what he said in rebuttal.

    I tend to spell Jobe with an e at the end, but there's no e. It's just Job. My bad.
    Last edited by Ronald; 05-21-2007 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: God v Satan

    Jesus says: "blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of Heaven." The God you judge is the one who opened his home to anyone willing to accept the invitation for all eternity. But I bet your home does not house the homeless, as God's home does.

    A baby is circumcised, but does not remember the pain of the circumcision. In the end, old heaven and old Earh pass away to form one, and I doubt even the memory of it remains.

    What will remain, however, is the system of judgment you determined for yourself. If according to you, God is to blame for death, and not sin, that God should have prevented the evil in the world, then you will also be held account for all the evil that you could have been prevented. As the amount of death you neglected to prevent piles up, your sentence becomes obvious.

    But if instead you say: "God, you were the one who gave us the gift of life, and you are the one who is so generous that you let sinners live for whatever amount of time you deem best. Thank you for your mercy. Please have mercy on me, for the very thing I am tempted to criticize you of I am guilty of, except that you do things with the purpose of creating the kingdom of heaven, whereas I do things out of selfishness. Please help me be more like Jesus.", it will go much better for you on Judgment Day.
    Last edited by Ronald; 05-21-2007 at 12:42 PM.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fayetnam NC
    Posts
    1,193

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald
    What will remain, however, is the system of judgment you determined for yourself. If according to you, God is to blame for death, and not sin, that God should have prevented the evil in the world, then you will also be held account for all the evil that you could have been prevented. As the amount of death you neglected to prevent piles up, your sentence becomes obvious.

    Did I mis-read something? I don't get where Zilenna was blaming God. In fact I belive Zilenna said to look at one's self.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinahound
    Did I mis-read something? I don't get where Zilenna was blaming God. In fact I belive Zilenna said to look at one's self.
    You're right. That whole reply doesn't reply to Zilenna at all. My mistake. I think I can still edit my post.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Fayetnam NC
    Posts
    1,193

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald
    You're right. That whole reply doesn't reply to Zilenna at all. My mistake. I think I can still edit my post.
    Cool, I just thought I might be losing my mind. And that would bring on another boggling question of how one loses something he never really quite had. :confused:

    hehehe :D

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinahound
    Cool, I just thought I might be losing my mind. And that would bring on another boggling question of how one loses something he never really quite had. :confused:

    hehehe :D
    If that cap fits pal... ;)
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald
    It all depends on what you mean by kill (as opposed to murder, or rightly kill, or let die, or so on). I personally view the number this way:

    God: 180 billion+
    Satan: 1 (or maybe 0)
    Well, I would call to kill something/one, to end the life of a living organism.

    Anyway, even with your revised numbers here, it's still doesn't look that great for god, does it?
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    Re: God v Satan

    More....

    Source: http://dwindlinginu nbelief.blogspot .com/2006/ 08/how-many- has-god-killed. html
    How many has God killed?

    I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. -- Deuteronomy 32:39-42
    How many people did God kill in the Bible?
    It's impossible to say for sure, but plently. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all.

    But sometimes the Bible tells us exactly how many were killed by God. Here's a list of those that I can find. (If you find any that I've missed, let me know and I'll add them to the list.)

    So far I come up with a total of 2,270,365 (not inlcuding, at least in some cases, women and children). SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cummulative Total
    Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1
    Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 2
    Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3
    For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003
    Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005
    A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006
    A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 3007
    Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+
    Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+
    For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+
    For "committing *****dom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+
    Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+
    God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+
    God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+
    Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 143,979+
    God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,979+
    Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,980+
    God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,980+
    God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,980+
    The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,010+
    The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,010+
    Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,010+
    "The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,110+
    More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,110+
    For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,180+
    God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,200+
    Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,201+
    "The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,202+
    Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,203+
    David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,204+
    Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,211+
    From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,211+
    A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,212+
    God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,212+
    God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,212+
    God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,213+
    Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,214+
    Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,316+
    God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,348+
    Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,349+
    Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,360+
    God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,363+
    Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,363+
    Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,364+
    God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,364+
    Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,365+
    "The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,365+
    God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,366+
    Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,367+
    Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,369+
    Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 2,270,369+
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9,583

    Re: God v Satan

    And so on it goes....


    Source: http://dwindlinginu nbelief.blogspot .com/2006/ 06/which- is-more-violent- bible-or- quran.html

    Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran?
    Which is more violent, the Bible or the Quran? Is there a way to objectively answer such a question?

    Well, it wouldn't be easy. But it is possible to compare the amount of cruelty and violence in the two books.

    Here is a summary of the highlighted verses in the SAB and SAQ. Number of Cruel or Violent Passages
    Bible 857
    Quran 494


    So the Bible has more cruel or violent passages as the Quran. But the Bible is a much bigger book. How do they compare when size is taken into account?

    Violence and Cruelty Total verses Percent
    Bible 857 31173 2.75
    Quran 494 6236 7.92


    When expressed as a percentage of cruel or violent verses (at least as marked in the SAB/Q), the Quran has nearly three times that of the Bible. (7.92 vs. 2.75%)* Of course this analysis does not consider the extent of the cruelty in the marked passages. And that is an important consideration. Is Numbers 31:14-18, for example, more cruel than Quran 5:34? That is something that each person must decide.

    A good argument could be made that either book is the most violent and cruel book ever written. The award would go to one or the other, for neither has any close competitors. It is frightening to think that more than half of the world's population believes in one or the other.
    Every Saint has a past, every sinner has a future..

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,457

    Re: God v Satan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeah Well Fine Then
    Well, I would call to kill something/one, to end the life of a living organism.

    Anyway, even with your revised numbers here, it's still doesn't look that great for god, does it?
    Actually, it does. I personally am quite fascinated by the miracle of death. Having read the Bible, I have found tremendous good in God's decision to have sinners die. It amazes how evil humans can be, coming up with vile schemes like trying to conquer the world. We have corporations that horde wealth in a world of starving children. And yet death means punishment for their crime, even if we don't catch them. It means they can't get away with anything.

    And it actually humbles us. We may be proud, and yet as we age our bodies become frail. Our pride is shattered. And we come to die to all our schemes and all our idolatry, until we lose everything and are forced to come face to face with God.

    You look at God as being cruel for creating this thing called death, but I look at God and think: "You warned Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit. They should have died the moment they so arrogantly disobeyed you and ate it, certainly by your standards. You would have been justified by wiping evil completely out of existence by getting rid of them. Yet you let them live for 1000 years. Not only that... YOU LET THEM BRING MORE SINNERS INTO THE WORLD."

    And that makes God look stunningly good. You can call God cruel, but yet it was God who gave you the free will and intelligence to say such a thing. You cannot criticize God for taking away that which he didn't have to give us, and that which he didn't have to let us keep the moment the first sin happened. You're living on God's grace is the point.

    I do not believe it is morally wrong to kill, but that murder by definition is "wrongful killing". For example, it is not immoral to kill a Nazi on the battlefield and try to save the world from Hitler. In fact, we commemorate veterans on Remembrance Day for doing so. It is because they killed that we enjoy freedom and safety today.

    In the same way I trust God in making tough decisions on life and death. And I base my confidence on the brilliance that he was required to have in creating this world.
    Last edited by Ronald; 05-21-2007 at 02:58 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Is Hate Satan's Will?
    By Cnance in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 148
    Last Post: 08-17-2018, 12:38 PM
  2. Satan and Thirteen
    By Cnance in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-18-2014, 02:28 PM
  3. What if god and satan were one?
    By Yeah Well Fine Then in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 134
    Last Post: 04-14-2010, 02:10 PM
  4. Satan's Ruse?
    By Yeah Well Fine Then in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 02-22-2010, 02:17 PM
  5. A Letter From Satan...
    By PaulM in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-22-2010, 01:06 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •