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  1. #1
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    Waco: What Really Happened?

    The evidence and facts shown in the documentaries

    "Waco: The Rules of Engagement"

    http://www.waco93.com

    and "Waco: A New Revelation"

    http://www.getwaco.com

    clearly demonstrate that the government lied on multiple occasions, and then in a routine move - the government TRIED TO COVER IT ALL UP. The government hasn't refuted ANYTHING in those films, nor could the truth in those films ever be refuted.

    The truth is obvious to anyone who considers the facts. If the BATF thought Koresh was so out of control, why did their undercover agents hand their guns to Koresh to have him reload them during target practice when they had infiltrated his compound a few weeks earlier?:

    http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/waco4.html

    And let's say for the sake of the argument that the Sheriff was afraid to serve them with a warrant, although he has never said such, then the BATF could have asked for the Sheriff's cooperation in telling them where Koresh would go when he left the compound and they could have arrested him. It could have been a simple arrest, but the government wanted a show.

  2. #2
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    The Branch Davidians were not crazed cultists that posed to threat to the surrounding community.

    Some of the agents in the front of the building recalled that they first thought bullets were coming from the building, but then realized they were coming from all directions. ATF agent Rick Cook said, "It was surreal." Wayne Martin, a 42-year-old black lawyer in Waco who knew many of those in the Sheriff's Department, redialed 911.

    "There are men, 75 men around our building shooting at us," said Martin. "Tell them there are children and women in here and to call it off." Lt. Larry Lynch, of the county sheriff's department, apparently unsure of what was unfolding, came to the telephone. "Hello, I hear gunfire. Oh s***, hello, who is this? Hello?"

    Martin: "Call it off!"

    Lynch: "Who is this? Hello? Hello? God Almighty!"

    Martin: "Help! We're being attacked! This is the Mt. Carmel Center! We're under attack!"

    The 911 operator disconnected them. A few minutes later, Koresh redialed 911, noting that he had been trying to call in.

    "This is who?" asked a dispatcher.

    "David Koresh, Mount Carmel Center. We're being shot up all out here," Koresh said, as Lynch returned to the telephone. "You killed some of my children. We told you we wanted to talk... There is a bunch of us dead and a bunch of you guys dead. Now, now, that's your fault."

    Lynch: "Okay, let's try to resolve this now. Tell me this, now, you have casualties, how many casualties, do you want to try to work something out? ATF is pulling back, we're trying to, uhm--"

    Koresh: "Why didn't you do that first?"

    Lynch: "Okay, all I'm, all I'm doing is handling communications. I can't give you that answer, David...."

    Koresh: "Yeah, well, really. let me tell you something."

    Lynch: "Okay."

    Koresh: "In our great country here, the United States, you know God has given us a rich history of patriotism. We're not trying to be bad guys."

    Lynch was trying to reach Cavanaugh or anyone in authority at the ATF command post, but they would not respond. Martin came back on the speaker phone.

    Martin: "I'm under fire!"

    Lynch: "Are you hurt?"

    Martin: "I'm okay."

    Lynch: "Wayne, cease firing. Do you hear me, Wayne? Cease firing."

    After a long pause, with only the sound of gunfire, Martin came back on. "I have a right to defend myself. (pause) They started shooting. (pause) They started firing first. There are women and children in here!"

    Lynch: "Let's try and resolve this. I'm trying to make contact with the forces out there."

    "Stop firing!" Off phone, Lynch hears Martin say, "Stan, don't return fire, okay?" There is a distant reply. "We haven't been." Then a storm of gunfire. "They are attacking us again!"

    Lynch: "No, they're not!"

    Martin: "Yes, they are! Don't call me a liar!"

    http://www.thefarm.org/lifestyle/alb...s/akbwaco.html


    Contrary to their intelligence assessment, ATF was not dealing with a "destructive cult" of compliant, brainwashed robots. Douglas Wayne Martin was a graduate of Harvard Law School. He had a wife and seven children. For seven years he was an assistant professor at the North Carolina Central University School of Law. Many who knew Wayne Martin describe him as a quiet, jovial and religious person, and found it hard to believe he could have been involved in anything so violent. He was routinely described as professionally competent in court. "It was common knowledge that he was a Davidian," said McLennan County Commissioner Lester Gibson, "but he never talked religion."

    http://www.thefarm.org/lifestyle/alb...s/akbwaco.html

  3. #3
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Why did government agents tell so many out right lies?

    There were some legal issues with the warrant itself:

    http://www.davekopel.com/Waco/LawRev/warrant.htm

    Also, the BATF didn't bring the warrants--which would make their raid illegal.

    2 of many questions that were never asked of Congress:

    # 6. Why didn't BATF tell Congress it had no plan for peaceful service of warrants--and that agents forgot to bring the warrants?

    ** BATF did not have a no knock warrant which would allow them to bust in unannounced, yet they never practiced anything but a forced entry into several parts of the building at once. (When one representative asked what happened when BATF went out to "knock on their door and they started shooting," BATF officials did not correct his misconception.)

    ** Agents did not have a plan to stop their aggressive actions in busting into the house even if Koresh immediately surrendered.

    ** No agent was assigned to announce the warrant, no Davidians heard them do so, and no agents originally admitted doing so--until after they talked with Treasury Department agents.

    ** At trial agents admitted agents actually forgot to bring the warrants with them when they raided Mount Carmel.

    # 7. Why didn't BATF tell Congress it expected a "shootout"?


    ** BATF agents expected a shootout. Agents admitted they anticipated they would be met with force and that agents were told to mark their blood types on their necks for medical purposes if they were wounded.

    ** The Treasury report admits the newsman who accidently warned a Davidian about the upcoming raid said it would be a "shootout" involving helicopters, obviously what agents were telling others.

    http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/waco.questions.html

  4. #4
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Too long for me to care to read but I wouldn't spend much time on "facts" from a documentary anyway.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  5. #5
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Too long for me to care to read but I wouldn't spend much time on "facts" from a documentary anyway.
    Problem is, the facts in the first documentary actually forced a new Congressional investigation. They won't even touch the damning evidence in the second documentary for fear of being totally exposed. See and judge the truth for yourself.

  6. #6
    Fizban "The Fabulous" Guest

    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Waco: The Rules of Engagement. One of the most disturbing films you'll ever see, this low-key documentary methodically and convincingly makes the case that the government -- not David Koresh -- caused the fatal fire at the Branch Davidian compound in April 1993. Using interviews, news footage, testimony before Congress, and infrared photographic analysis, the film relentlessly chips away at the government's story that David Koresh and his followers were a dangerous cult involved in strange sex and drug practices who were preparing to slaughter their neighbors and that they immolated themselves la Jonestown, rather than give themselves up peacefully. Nearly every element of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms' and the FBI's cover-up is exposed as fraudulent and the viewer is left wondering when, if ever, justice will finally be served.
    Torrent download

    http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/st...1db950b863f70f


    Waco: A New Revelation is the film that triggered a new Congressional investigation
    of the Waco tragedy, and caused the Justice Department and the FBI to reverse their
    long-held positions on Waco. It has generated a firestorm of events unprecedented in
    the history of documentary filmmaking.

    After six years of painstaking investigation, the complete story of the tragedy in
    Texas is finally coming to light. This compelling feature-length documentary presents
    new revelations about the events that led up to the deaths of 79 men, women and
    children at Mount Carmel on April 19, 1993.
    Waco: A New Revelation presents evidence addressing the following questions:
    Mount Carmel on April 19th, 1993.

    * Why didn't the Branch Davidians and their children come out of the Mount Carmel
    compound?
    * Did the FBI actually start the Waco fire using pyrotechnic devices?
    * Why was critical evidence missing from the evidence locker nearly six years
    after the event?
    * What was the role of the elite U.S. Army Delta Force during the final assult
    -- and why was their presence denied untill now?
    * Does the trail of evidence lead to the first lady Hillary Clinton, President
    Clinton and the White House?
    download
    http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/st...e3f38b2315c5ab

  7. #7
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    People still care? The government aren't "afraid", they just have more important things to care about.

  8. #8
    Fizban "The Fabulous" Guest

    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mistyam
    People still care? The government aren't "afraid", they just have more important things to care about.

    Lovely little Nazi ****s arnt they?
    important things to care about like makn money and killn people.

    Go kill yourself.

    sexual tolerated moron.

    took me a while to figure out that you and the governements are the Aliens.

    the movie Alien.

    So thats the *******s.

    Dirty rotten alien bastards.


    I saw the rules of engagement years ago and the one thing I remember is seeing thermal imaging of people fleeing a burning building, while being told to come out and a dozen or so unarmed people being gunned down by federal agents. Absolutely sickening.


    Was good doco.....in fact so good it got nominated for an Academy Award in 97 or 98.


    Here is a snippet from youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUIaRvFAi4

    Check it out.

    Good ****.

    Very factual..... & very disturbing.

    a few others I found...


    wake up or waco

    http://video.google.com/url?docid=-7...LNWkxDJVgz-PUQ


    Waco; the big lie

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...16450757675658


    havnt cheched these out yet...

    Alot of people think that the Waca operation is a NWO testing grounds to what is to come.

    this is a great doco people.....check it out. Thanks for bringing to peoples attention. I have seen this four or five times. Very well made.....not like a crap mike moore doco. Plenty of bit torrents on it. Very factual..


    that was in 1993 so if they did it then, they will do it again.

    Ever seen the "Shattered Union" PC game? Its a **** game, don't bother to
    get it to play it but I think it is an accurate look into the future...

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...hattered+union

    Alex Jones talking about it...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VMBu_pQV2M

    This is the big question for me, will the military be on the side of the people,
    or will they just follow orders and kill their own citizens? Even though in the
    US, the law is that the military is not allowed to engage in domestic disputes,
    what does the Bush Administration care about that? Bush wipes his arse on
    the constitution and doesn't even bother to deny it, in his own words he said
    its "just a god damn piece of paper".
    FEMA and Bush Senior tried to do the same thing, so its work in progress under terrorism banner its now working.

    As for soldiers they break you down then build you up so alot will be brain washed by this only when its family member or something similiar it may break the hold.




    Its OK saying Bush this and Bush that, but the way I see it, America
    was set up to be the "launchpad for globalisation" a long time before
    Bush was even born. Go back to 1913 and the inception of the Federal
    Reserve, the privately owned central bank that operates on a debt
    money system, the country's economy can ONLY crash, but that is
    the whole design. Meanwhile, China produces most of America's
    goods and to top it off, has now become capitalist, this will only
    accelerate the crash. When I say crash I mean worse than 1929,
    a crash so bad, it will turn the US into a third world nation.

    Look at what David Icke said in 1998...

    "The plan is to engineer events, real and staged, that will create enormous
    fear in the countdown years to 2012. This includes a plan to start a third world
    war either by stimulating the Muslim world into a 'holy war' against the West
    or by using the Chinese to cause global conflict. Maybe both."

    "Using the Chinese to cause global conflict". What better way to do it than
    make it a capitalist nation? I mean seriously, what better way is there?

    watch Jericho
    world war will begin soon.

    the only thing that will save America is a revolution. The people don't run the Government
    anymore, big corporations run it, they have 2 lobbyists to every congress person.


    It is indeed a dark day
    for humans on planet
    Earth...
    If freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom...

  9. #9
    Fizban "The Fabulous" Guest

    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    I cant beleive that no one has watch these docos and comented.
    :(
    (The docos are on Google video)

    WACO: The Coverup Continues .. in your own minds.
    give a fair perspective on Waco?
    yep, just look at the event... A armed tank is used for a residential issue - this answers the question to who waa in the wrong!

    It was all out war NWO style.

    and the Governments attentions where clear from the start.
    And it didnt end to adults and children were burnt.
    (some children died from being tortured for hours from the effects of the gas )

    Disgusting...
    :(


    Totally shameless steaming hore**** on multiple levels. I could go on for hours about how wrong this excrement is, but here's a quote from "award winning investigative reporter" Lee Hancock:

    "This is one of the most complex tragedies in U.S. law enforcement history."

    Really? What's complicated about burning down a building full of innocent children, and then blaming it all on the victims? Happens all the time in the good ol' USA!

    The whole US government should be up for war crimes. :mad:
    Last edited by Fizban "The Fabulous"; 05-19-2007 at 09:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Say what you will, but I refuse to sympathize with David Koresh.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

  11. #11
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by furbearingbrick
    Say what you will, but I refuse to sympathize with David Koresh.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh
    How about sympathizing with the innocent children that were killed? There are a lot of conflicting reports of what went on within the compound, but one thing is certain - Koresh could have EASILY been arrested outside of the compound by the local sheriff when he went into town. And we could have had a long trial in which all of the facts would have been presented by both sides. The federal government is the reason for the tragedy and the deaths of those women and innocent children. They wanted a highly publicized shoot out - knowing full well that some of the beliefs of the group were apocalyptic in nature. That was an incredibly stupid - and criminally negligent - decision.

  12. #12
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban "The Fabulous"
    Its OK saying Bush this and Bush that, but the way I see it, America
    was set up to be the "launchpad for globalisation" a long time before
    Bush was even born. Go back to 1913 and the inception of the Federal
    Reserve, the privately owned central bank that operates on a debt
    money system, the country's economy can ONLY crash, but that is
    the whole design.
    Fizban, you are fabulous! This is absolutely correct. In 1913, we were given the Unholy Trinity of the Federal Reserve, the Income Tax and an interventionist foreign policy. The ground work was laid under Woodrow Wilson. Later, FDR and LBJ continued to create a leviathan welfare state, which the Neocons later turned into a leviathan warfare state.

    We are indeed on the course to WW3.

    Our only hope is Ron Paul in 2008.

  13. #13
    Fizban "The Fabulous" Guest

    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Man
    Fizban, you are fabulous! This is absolutely correct. In 1913, we were given the Unholy Trinity of the Federal Reserve, the Income Tax and an interventionist foreign policy. The ground work was laid under Woodrow Wilson. Later, FDR and LBJ continued to create a leviathan welfare state, which the Neocons later turned into a leviathan warfare state.

    We are indeed on the course to WW3.

    Our only hope is Ron Paul in 2008.
    THE BATTLE OF THE ANTS

    That is not which is.
    The only Word is Silence.
    The only Meaning of that Word is not.
    Thoughts are false.
    Fatherhood is unity disguised as duality.
    Peace implies war.
    Power implies war.
    Harmony implies war.
    Victory implies war.
    Glory implies war.
    Foundation implies war.
    Alas! for the Kingdom wherein all these are at war.

  14. #14
    Fizban "The Fabulous" Guest

    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Man
    Fizban, you are fabulous! This is absolutely correct. In 1913, we were given the Unholy Trinity of the Federal Reserve, the Income Tax and an interventionist foreign policy. The ground work was laid under Woodrow Wilson. Later, FDR and LBJ continued to create a leviathan welfare state, which the Neocons later turned into a leviathan warfare state.

    We are indeed on the course to WW3.

    Our only hope is Ron Paul in 2008.
    From all the reports about Congress I have heard there have only been two honest people
    in the Congress in recent years, one was Cynthia McKinney (who got harassed by the Feds
    soon after she confronted Rumsfeld about the child kidnapping rings run by DynCore and
    Halliburton)

    and the other honest person is Ron Paul...

    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/...ent_of_usa.htm
    Here is a speech by Ron Paul...


    QUOTE
    Ron Paul addresses the House of Representatives against the bi-partisan tide of war-mongerers.
    He gives an excellent historical case on why and how this deception of an "Iran Threat" is being
    laid on the public. He addresses U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, the recent elections
    in Pakistan, the nuclear capabilities of India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel.

    He also goes in depth at the economic consequences to the Average American, and how Congress
    has forfeited its "powers to declare war" to the administrative branch.


    Congressman Ron Paul Speaks Out AGAINST War With IRAN - April 2006
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...31596878368112

    its clear to see Ron Paul is the guy
    who would get voted in by the people... this is assuming those paperless
    ballots were fair but they're not, look at Bush - he stole the 2000 and the
    2004 elections! Stealing one election is quite something but TWO? It just
    shows how much control these guys have, its not an elephant in the living
    room its a 15 foot humanity despising monster with blood dripping from
    its fangs that can destroy humanity and at the same time they don't even
    believe its there.

    In one operation alone in the Balkans they (DynCorp and Halliburton)
    kidnapped 200,000 women and children to be used as slaves/sex slaves.
    They tend not to go for the men, because the men would give those
    kidnapping cowards a f**king good kicking. That alone annoys me,
    how f**king pussified these wankers really are and how we could just
    defeat them if people woke up a bit and researched these things.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...avescandal.htm

  15. #15
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    I didn't have time to read the websites, but I remember that scum JANET RENO giving them the GO to go and Kill those people at the compound. She is as guility as the killers yet she walks free. This was so sickening. They could of gotten David in town but they never did. They just wanted to KILL THEM ALL. You are right, I dont remember your name, when the NWO comes they are going to destroy all those who believe in God and Jesus. It is facts, its prophecized in the Bible about the government groups to kill anyone who believes in the Bible. THIS act was against all humanity and was so horrible. Could not believe it was happened. JANET RENO you are guilty of MURDERS. Thanks for putting all this information out on the forum. Why did they have to kill innocent people. I know David was a wack job, he was totally lost. But they did not have to KILL THEM the way they did. SO PATHETIC and SICK.

  16. #16
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    Re: Waco: What Really Happened?

    Did Hillary Clinton Order Waco Assault?

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=133

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...es;read=118982






    The internet is the last light of truth and hope...it is truly of the people, by the people and for the people. We must not let it be subverted for any purpose other than the truth. And that truth shall spread to every man woman and child across the globe. No longer will those in power carry the sole means to decide for us, yet we now shall have the power to decide to tune them out.

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