View Poll Results: Do you know an atheist?

Voters
25. This poll is closed
  • I know an atheist, and I believe they can be moral.

    22 88.00%
  • I know an atheist, but I don't believe they can be moral.

    2 8.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, but I believe they can be moral.

    1 4.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, and I don't believe they can be moral.

    0 0%
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  1. #49
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Actually, Judaism does not only allow for, but requires much contemplation. Possibly why we keep writing so damned many books on the subject :)
    Yeah you're right, I was just trying to make it seem like Christianity isn't so alone in its approach to morality without comparing it to Islam (which I'm sure people would find offensive because all Middle-Easterners are terrorists :p)

  2. #50
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Shhh! SJ, don't let them know about how it was the Muslims who dragged Europe out of the Dark Ages! It'd ruin the whole plot ;)

  3. #51
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    Shhh! SJ, don't let them know about how it was the Muslims who dragged Europe out of the Dark Ages! It'd ruin the whole plot ;)
    My lips are sealed!

  4. #52
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Do you not think an athiest can be moral? This should be good.

    MAN I'M HOOKED

    So much for wanting to stay away from this site.

    This website is like....chocolate cheesecake (I never took crack) - once your in....

    ***********
    All humans are stamped with the image of God - even an atheist (say, a guy) would be willing to sacrifice his life for his wife, which demonstrates a characteristic of the Lord.

    The question isn't whether an atheist has the capacity to love, or self-sacrifice, or give....
    The questions is...to what degree and and essense of their motives?

    And this next questions is what Bible-believing Christians understand:
    is an Atheists' morality acceptable to the living God?

    Does this mean that he (the Atheist) have the "spark of life"?
    Nope, for that...



    ah forget it. what's the use. no one can repent unless the Lord grants it to you.
    take care folks

  5. #53
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    I found this on the web. Perhaps use of these will get us out of our moral malaise. Enjoy -

    The Ten commandments

    Logical Extension
    Now that our elected officials here in Indiana have concluded that crime, violence, and immorality can be reduced by posting replicas of the Ten Commandments in schools and on public buildings, it’s only logical that the next step - incorporating them into our civil laws, and enforcing them properly - would have a much greater impact. We have to presume, based on the fervor expressed, this is precisely what they intend to do.

    Let’s take a look at the "Ten" (Exod.20:1-17) and see how this might be accomplished.

    We can also consult the Bible to determine what punishments would be warranted for violations. After all, who better than God Himself to guide us in these matters?

    #1. - "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me".

    Since this specifically refers to Yahweh, the Hebrew deity, we’ll need to do a little tinkering with the First Amendment to enforce this, like getting rid of that entire "freedom of religion" concept. Punishment for offenders? We can ascertain what God would want in Deut.13:6-10 and 17:2-6. Punishment would have to be death.

    #2. - "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven..., in earth..., or in water: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

    This one’s a little more complicated. It appears that all art, sculpture, even photography may have to cease. A lot of details to be worked out here. I’m not even sure if replicas of the Commandments would be legal. Might have to use audio. As for the latter part - punish the children up to the forth generation - records will need to be kept. (This principle worked quite well in the Middle Ages and during the Inquisitions, whereby suspected "heretics" were tried and convicted long after their death, enabling the Church/government to seize land and property from their descendants.)

    #3. - "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;"

    A council - something like a modern "ecclesiastic tribunal"- could be established to determine what actions would be deemed blasphemous under this law. Fraudulent faith healing, political religious pandering, and all the self-serving repetitive "Thank the Lord" blather going on in sports these days could be precisely the type of things God had in mind. Any perceived blasphemy or cursing the name of the Lord would be punished by death. See Lev.24:13-16.

    #4. - "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. ..in it thou shalt not do any work,"

    Self explanatory. Do not mow your lawn, mend the fence, vacuum the house, or do the dishes on the Sabbath. We will need to clarify which day it actually is. The Bible says it’s Saturday,

    but oddly enough Christians observe Sunday. We could utilize the "Ecclesiastic Tribunal" to settle this issue before we begin enforcement. Violations - death. See Exod.31:14-15.

    #5. - "Honour thy father and thy mother;"

    Clear enough. Punishment for violations - death. See Deut.21:18-21

    #6. - "Thou shalt not kill."

    This appears to be pretty straightforward, but if we look at the context in which this command was issued, we may want to clarify it somewhat before we write the statute. While under this law Moses, Joshua and the rest of the "chosen" killed millions of men, women, children and infants - nearly everyone they came in contact with (Num.31:7-18; Deut.2:34, 3:3-6, 20:13-17; Josh.6:21, 8:25-26, 10:28-41, 11:8-22; 1 Sam.15:3-8). So we must assume that a civil statute might more accurately read - "Thou shalt not kill, unless directed to by a religious leader who has spoken with God." The penalty for killing (except in the name of God) is, well...death. Lev.24:17

    #7. - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

    It’s important to understand exactly what God is referring to here. According to Mark 10:11-12, Jesus clearly states that anyone who divorces and remarries, or marries a divorced person "committeth adultery". The penalty for this crime in Lev.20:10-12 is death. Now I know this appears harsh, and will obviously impact millions of marriages and families, but what choice have we? We can’t just arbitrarily ignore such explicit biblical teachings. Some may try to cite John 8:3-11 as a loophole, but remember - Jesus is God, and God, by definition, can do whatever He wants. Doesn’t mean we can. We better just do what He says, not as He does.

    #8. - "Thou shalt not steal."

    Here’s one for the liberals. According to Exod.22:4 restitution double the value of the theft is all that’s required. No imprisonment, banishment, or stoning. At least we’ll be able to free up a lot of jail space for those awaiting sentencing for other violations.

    #9. - "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

    Simply put - no lying or engaging in deception. Interestingly enough, I can find no clear punishment for lying or bearing false witness in the Bible. In fact, a whole bunch of it goes on in there by some of the leading characters. Maybe that’s why so much of it is going on among today’s leading characters. Pat Robertson immediately comes to mind.

    #10. - "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, ...wife, ...manservant, ...maidservant, ...ox, ...ass, ...nor anything that is thy neighbours."

    Again, the "Ecclesiastic Tribunal" could determine which thoughts or actions would be declared covetous under this law. Certainly all advertising trying to entice one to buy something or be like someone else will need to be banned. Improved lie detector technology would be extremely valuable. The Bible’s a little ambiguous about the punishment for covetousness, although in Josh.7:21-25, Achan - along with his sons, daughters, oxen, asses, sheep, and tent - were stoned and burned because he had "coveted" a garment, some gold and silver, and hid them. Also Mk.7:22 lists covetousness with adultery, murder, and blasphemy, so we should be able to come up with some appropriate punishment that would be in line here biblically.

    In summary - once we get the Ten Commandment replicas (or audio version) posted throughout the land, integrate them into our civil laws, and establish the corresponding penalties for violations, we should finally be able to get what’s left of this country back on a strong biblical footing with objective moral values!

    Of course, there will no doubt be a lot of whining from the soft-on-crime, anything-goes liberals complaining about the severity of the penalties, or that Jesus overrode all these old laws. To them I say - just read what He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Mt.5:17-19
    I am currently reading --- White Jazz - James Ellroy

  6. #54
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turnbull Ac
    I found this on the web. Perhaps use of these will get us out of our moral malaise. Enjoy -

    The Ten commandments

    Logical Extension
    Now that our elected officials here in Indiana have concluded that crime, violence, and immorality can be reduced by posting replicas of the Ten Commandments in schools and on public buildings, it’s only logical that the next step - incorporating them into our civil laws, and enforcing them properly - would have a much greater impact. We have to presume, based on the fervor expressed, this is precisely what they intend to do.

    Let’s take a look at the "Ten" (Exod.20:1-17) and see how this might be accomplished.

    We can also consult the Bible to determine what punishments would be warranted for violations. After all, who better than God Himself to guide us in these matters?

    #1. - "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me".

    Since this specifically refers to Yahweh, the Hebrew deity, we’ll need to do a little tinkering with the First Amendment to enforce this, like getting rid of that entire "freedom of religion" concept. Punishment for offenders? We can ascertain what God would want in Deut.13:6-10 and 17:2-6. Punishment would have to be death.

    #2. - "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven..., in earth..., or in water: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

    This one’s a little more complicated. It appears that all art, sculpture, even photography may have to cease. A lot of details to be worked out here. I’m not even sure if replicas of the Commandments would be legal. Might have to use audio. As for the latter part - punish the children up to the forth generation - records will need to be kept. (This principle worked quite well in the Middle Ages and during the Inquisitions, whereby suspected "heretics" were tried and convicted long after their death, enabling the Church/government to seize land and property from their descendants.)

    #3. - "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;"

    A council - something like a modern "ecclesiastic tribunal"- could be established to determine what actions would be deemed blasphemous under this law. Fraudulent faith healing, political religious pandering, and all the self-serving repetitive "Thank the Lord" blather going on in sports these days could be precisely the type of things God had in mind. Any perceived blasphemy or cursing the name of the Lord would be punished by death. See Lev.24:13-16.

    #4. - "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. ..in it thou shalt not do any work,"

    Self explanatory. Do not mow your lawn, mend the fence, vacuum the house, or do the dishes on the Sabbath. We will need to clarify which day it actually is. The Bible says it’s Saturday,

    but oddly enough Christians observe Sunday. We could utilize the "Ecclesiastic Tribunal" to settle this issue before we begin enforcement. Violations - death. See Exod.31:14-15.

    #5. - "Honour thy father and thy mother;"

    Clear enough. Punishment for violations - death. See Deut.21:18-21

    #6. - "Thou shalt not kill."

    This appears to be pretty straightforward, but if we look at the context in which this command was issued, we may want to clarify it somewhat before we write the statute. While under this law Moses, Joshua and the rest of the "chosen" killed millions of men, women, children and infants - nearly everyone they came in contact with (Num.31:7-18; Deut.2:34, 3:3-6, 20:13-17; Josh.6:21, 8:25-26, 10:28-41, 11:8-22; 1 Sam.15:3-8). So we must assume that a civil statute might more accurately read - "Thou shalt not kill, unless directed to by a religious leader who has spoken with God." The penalty for killing (except in the name of God) is, well...death. Lev.24:17

    #7. - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

    It’s important to understand exactly what God is referring to here. According to Mark 10:11-12, Jesus clearly states that anyone who divorces and remarries, or marries a divorced person "committeth adultery". The penalty for this crime in Lev.20:10-12 is death. Now I know this appears harsh, and will obviously impact millions of marriages and families, but what choice have we? We can’t just arbitrarily ignore such explicit biblical teachings. Some may try to cite John 8:3-11 as a loophole, but remember - Jesus is God, and God, by definition, can do whatever He wants. Doesn’t mean we can. We better just do what He says, not as He does.

    #8. - "Thou shalt not steal."

    Here’s one for the liberals. According to Exod.22:4 restitution double the value of the theft is all that’s required. No imprisonment, banishment, or stoning. At least we’ll be able to free up a lot of jail space for those awaiting sentencing for other violations.

    #9. - "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

    Simply put - no lying or engaging in deception. Interestingly enough, I can find no clear punishment for lying or bearing false witness in the Bible. In fact, a whole bunch of it goes on in there by some of the leading characters. Maybe that’s why so much of it is going on among today’s leading characters. Pat Robertson immediately comes to mind.

    #10. - "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, ...wife, ...manservant, ...maidservant, ...ox, ...ass, ...nor anything that is thy neighbours."

    Again, the "Ecclesiastic Tribunal" could determine which thoughts or actions would be declared covetous under this law. Certainly all advertising trying to entice one to buy something or be like someone else will need to be banned. Improved lie detector technology would be extremely valuable. The Bible’s a little ambiguous about the punishment for covetousness, although in Josh.7:21-25, Achan - along with his sons, daughters, oxen, asses, sheep, and tent - were stoned and burned because he had "coveted" a garment, some gold and silver, and hid them. Also Mk.7:22 lists covetousness with adultery, murder, and blasphemy, so we should be able to come up with some appropriate punishment that would be in line here biblically.

    In summary - once we get the Ten Commandment replicas (or audio version) posted throughout the land, integrate them into our civil laws, and establish the corresponding penalties for violations, we should finally be able to get what’s left of this country back on a strong biblical footing with objective moral values!

    Of course, there will no doubt be a lot of whining from the soft-on-crime, anything-goes liberals complaining about the severity of the penalties, or that Jesus overrode all these old laws. To them I say - just read what He said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Mt.5:17-19
    That's brilliant!

  7. #55
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by frumpy
    I think the fact that athiests do not require themselves to live by a specific set of standards or morals, they actually allow themselves to be more trustworthy and stable. I've met plenty of "Christians" whom judge themselves as failures because they might not be doing somethings right or by the bible, and therefore seem to become angry much easier. Take an athiest who has no "morals" and you'll find someone who can live with themselves contently.
    Athiests and the faithful can lack morals. What is morally correct and incorrect lies in the mind of each of us. The only real difference is where we claim to get our morals from. Take the golden rule for example. The faithful, some of them, practice the rule because the bible says to. Athiests practice the same rule for the simple reason that it makes sense. The golden rule was around long before the bible was written and being practiced every day just as it is now by all people who meet MY STANDARD of morality, christian, athiest, muslim or otherwise.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  8. #56
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    311

    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turnbull Ac
    I found this on the web. Perhaps use of these will get us out of our moral malaise. Enjoy -

    The Ten commandments

    Logical Extension
    Now that our elected officials here in Indiana have concluded that crime, violence, and immorality can be reduced by posting replicas of the Ten Commandments in schools and on public buildings, it’s only logical that the next step - incorporating them into our civil laws, and enforcing them properly - would have a much greater impact. We have to presume, based on the fervor expressed, this is precisely what they intend to do.

    Let’s take a look at the "Ten" (Exod.20:1-17) and see how this might be accomplished.

    We can also consult the Bible to determine what punishments would be warranted for violations. After all, who better than God Himself to guide us in these matters?

    #1. - "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me".

    Since this specifically refers to Yahweh, the Hebrew deity, we’ll need to do a little tinkering with the First Amendment to enforce this, like getting rid of that entire "freedom of religion" concept. Punishment for offenders? We can ascertain what God would want in Deut.13:6-10 and 17:2-6. Punishment would have to be death.
    Right, the Bible is clear that the wages of sin is death.
    Look with me at Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Without Jesus we have no hope of what is to come.
    Remember God is the same today, yesterday and forever, His punishment
    for sin is death which we will all face unless just as Israel had to do
    before Passover, put the blood of the lamb on their door posts otherwise, what? DEATH. When we face God on judgment day, why should he let you and I into heaven? Only if you believe Jesus paid the price
    for our sin on the cross. Has nothing to do with your morality, whether you were a good person or not on this earth because remember God is perfect and holy and we all have sinned against HIM.

  9. #57
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    The golden rule was around long before the bible was written and being practiced every day just as it is now by all people who meet MY STANDARD of morality, christian, athiest, muslim or otherwise.
    And who are you? What authority do you have to determine the morality
    of humans? Only our CREATOR can define that morality. He did, it's all in
    the Bible. Without an authority in which to define morality, there is no such thing as morality. Everyone's standard is different.

  10. #58
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    This is funny Bogie, you put me down but you have agreed with me,
    Interesting that you would say that I put you down when it was you that asked in an earlier post, "do you people really think in here".

    either you would hate to admit to agree with me or you have done
    so out of ignorance.
    That's not a put down I suppose. I have never called anybody on this forum ingnorant. Check it out. What is it that you think I agree with you about?
    You have agreed with me that one can not say another person
    is moral without defining whose morality.
    Nope. We don't agree at all. I don't need to define moral conduct in order to judge a persons morality or lack thereof. I've already defined it. It's morality by MY DEFINITION that I judge people on.
    If you were to put 10 people in a room, you would get very different responses as to what is moral and thus it weakens what is morality.
    That would depend on the ten people. Were I to gather ten of my athiest, christian and muslim friends, I don't think that we would answer questions on morality much differently from one to the other. We may have been taught morality by different means, some in the quoran, some with the bible and some with no help at all but our moral conduct would be relitively the same. That's one of the main reasons that they are my friends. Simple really. You don't get to be my friend unless you live under much the same moral standard as I do. I have never met an athiest, that I can recall, who does not have moral standards that even you would think is very lofty. Morality is personal within each of us. For instance, I don't think it's morally correct to suggest to someone that if they don't believe in god and jesus exactly as I do they will not go to heaven.
    You science guys should have figured that out already.
    Not only that but when people define their own morality,
    they are creating a god, or standard of their own which is
    one of the chiefest offences, against the one and true God.
    Nope. My morality comes from using common sense and I don't need to create a god to tell me what is moral and what is not. I suspect that you get this kind of thinkiing from the bible which I don't spend any time with anymore. But even without a god to instruct me, I know that I should do unto others as I would have them do unto me. Humans came up with that concept all by themselves long before the bible was written. Just makes sense. And your comment about weakening morality? Can't weaken mine. You can comment on it or critique it all you like. But that doesn't weaken my morals.
    I am saying morality is defined by God's standard. I realize
    you disagree with me on that point.
    But you're wrong. I agree that your god's standard as preached by jesus is an excellent way to live ones life but the majority of humans have never read the bible and still they live up to the same standard as you do. I do not deny that jesus existed and that he inspired many, and still does, to lead their lives in a way that I think is moral. There is nothing in the bible regarding morals that I don't agree with to my knowledge. But I am an expert on one set of morals, mine, and I can live by the teachings of jesus without thinking that he is the son of some god or that his mother was a virgin.
    Last edited by bogie; 04-04-2007 at 06:04 PM.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  11. #59
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    And who are you? What authority do you have to determine the morality
    of humans? Only our CREATOR can define that morality. He did, it's all in
    the Bible. Without an authority in which to define morality, there is no such thing as morality. Everyone's standard is different.
    I am me, that's who I am. And I have the authority to develope my own morals as does everybody. Surely you're not suggesting that everybody who does not believe that jesus christ was the son of god is an imoral person. Or maybe you are. In which case, you would not live up to my moral standard. No elitists alowed in my life.
    Last edited by bogie; 04-04-2007 at 06:13 PM.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  12. #60
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    If you would like to read what I said again, I said "I think atheists are just as moral "by God's standards" as Christians.", which you have just admitted is true, as we have all broken the ten commandments.

    My point was that I don't believe that atheists break the 10 Commandments any more regularly than Christians.
    I agree with you, however true Christians, ones that have put their faith in Jesus Christ, His death on the cross and His resurrection, those are the only people that God recognizes as righteous. People that have come of age, to make a decision for themselves, I don't want to get another post saying so you hate all children, what about the children? The children will be fine. God loves children. Then why do so many children suffer? Because of SIN as I explained in many other posts that sin caused this world to be cursed. Sorry for the rant but if I don't address those now a few of you would jump all over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    You obviously have very strict criteria for "good teacher".
    In my mind there are two options, either he believed in the religion thing and therefore may have had a mental illness.
    That would be fine as many great men have had mental illnesses, in fact it is sometimes their illnesses and eccentricities that lead to them going against the grain and being remembered in the first place.
    The other option, which I believe to be equally possible, is that he realized religion was causing lots of problems and also had the foresight to realize that he would have more luck shaping the religion into a better one instead of preaching atheism.
    In both scenarios I still consider him to be a good teacher and a good man.
    This I can not agree with as no good teacher would deceive all of
    his students for eternity. If either scenario you described were true,
    then Jesus would be the chiefest offenders of what he taught.
    I think you need to read more about what Jesus actually taught.
    The golden rule is but one.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    I'm not sure you quite understand my position.
    I don't have a god, there is nothing in my life that equates to a god, instead I value humanity.
    Oh I understand your position very clear. I don't think you understand mine, my position is that if God exists, then you have created another god to fit
    your life. I understand you don't believe, I do, and if the Bible is correct then
    you are doing exactly what I have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Morality isn't a deity, but (and I don't mean this offensively, I really don't) I don't think Christians truly know what morality is.
    To a certain extent religions like Zen Buddhism know what morality is, as their religion is very open-ended about morality, but religions like Christianity and Judaism don't encourage or even necessarilty allow for such open contemplation.
    Christians know what morality is, that is silly, again you have not defined
    morality and without authority to define morality, then everyone's morality is different and hence there is no morality. Our CREATOR is the only one with the authority to do define morality, and He did, it's in the Bible.

  13. #61
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    I agree with you, however true Christians, ones that have put their faith in Jesus Christ, His death on the cross and His resurrection, those are the only people that God recognizes as righteous. People that have come of age, to make a decision for themselves, I don't want to get another post saying so you hate all children, what about the children? The children will be fine. God loves children. Then why do so many children suffer? Because of SIN as I explained in many other posts that sin caused this world to be cursed. Sorry for the rant but if I don't address those now a few of you would jump all over it.



    This I can not agree with as no good teacher would deceive all of
    his students for eternity. If either scenario you described were true,
    then Jesus would be the chiefest offenders of what he taught.
    I think you need to read more about what Jesus actually taught.
    The golden rule is but one.



    Oh I understand your position very clear. I don't think you understand mine, my position is that if God exists, then you have created another god to fit
    your life. I understand you don't believe, I do, and if the Bible is correct then
    you are doing exactly what I have said.



    Christians know what morality is, that is silly, again you have not defined
    morality and without authority to define morality, then everyone's morality is different and hence there is no morality. Our CREATOR is the only one with the authority to do define morality, and He did, it's in the Bible.
    All of these thoughts are based on the premise that there actually is a god as you see it. Do you really think that you will get far with athiests with the argument that god said so? We have no reason to believe that there is a god so using the one as validation of your argument is rediculous. Mention god to an athiest and you've lost all credibility.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  14. #62
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Interesting that you would say that I put you down when it was you that asked in an earlier post, "do you people really think in here".

    That's not a put down I suppose. I have never called anybody on this forum ingnorant.
    I was being sarcastic, as you have been. You may not have used the word ingnorant (is that even a word?) just kidding, but you have implied it several times. I am not going to argue this point with you, if you feel I have offended you, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    What is it that you think I agree with you about?
    I told you exactly what I thought you agreed with me on in the post
    that you quoted this from. Read back.

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Nope. We don't agree at all. I don't need to define moral conduct in order to judge a persons morality or lack thereof. I've already defined it. It's morality by MY DEFINITION that I judge people on.
    I am kinda getting sick of the circular argument here, but WHO ARE YOU TO
    JUDGE ANYONE, TALK ABOUT ELITIST, HAH I HOPE YOU SEE THE LIGHT MY FRIEND!

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    There is nothing in the bible regarding morals that I don't agree with to my knowledge. But I am an expert on one set of morals, mine, and I can live by the teachings of jesus without thinking that he is the son of some god or that his mother was a virgin.
    Sure you can live that way on this earth, I am not disagreeing there, you are moral under your own set of morals very proud of you, but without the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, eternal life is not promised.

    Maybe you can do some research on this subject, why don't you go to Texas and interview people on death row and ask them if they have lived by their own standard of morality. Ask them where it got them? and then run!

  15. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    311

    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    I am me, that's who I am. And I have the authority to develope my own morals as does everybody. Surely you're not suggesting that everybody who does not believe that jesus christ was the son of god is an imoral person. Or maybe you are. In which case, you would not live up to my moral standard. No elitists alowed in my life.
    You are an elitist by your own admission, as you have said in an earlier post
    that you judge other people based on your standard of morality.
    Does that mean you are not allowed in your life?

  16. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    311

    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    All of these thoughts are based on the premise that there actually is a god as you see it. Do you really think that you will get far with athiests with the argument that god said so? We have no reason to believe that there is a god so using the one as validation of your argument is rediculous. Mention god to an athiest and you've lost all credibility.
    All you need to do is look into your conscience (con -with, science -knowledge), you are with knowledge that God exists.
    Look at His standard the 10 commandments ask yourself if you
    have violated any, go through each one, your conscience will convict
    you that you are not moral, you are not even a good person under
    God's standard of holiness, that is why you need Jesus.
    I don't expect an atheist to understand anything I write until
    their conscience is convicted.

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