View Poll Results: Do you know an atheist?

Voters
25. This poll is closed
  • I know an atheist, and I believe they can be moral.

    22 88.00%
  • I know an atheist, but I don't believe they can be moral.

    2 8.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, but I believe they can be moral.

    1 4.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, and I don't believe they can be moral.

    0 0%
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  1. #209
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKid
    But Lexx, there's no mention of anyone ever going to hell, or even such a place existing until the New Testament.

    Something to think about maybe?

    I mean, if it's that important, don't you think God would've at least mentioned it to us? He's a mensch, after all :D
    It really doesn't make alot of sense to me either. Christianity grew out of judiasm and touts the old testament to be a part of the bible that we as christians are to follow but they are so different from each other that it makes you wonder...

    Also, why would God make one small tribe his people and to hell with everybody else that doesn't accept his son as their savior. Under Jewish law there is no hell?

  2. #210
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Ah yes. Like the christian nazis in WWII. Hung after nuremberg but now resting in heaven after having asked god for forgiveness because his son died for thier sins. The gassed jews on the other hand are burning in hell for eternity because they didn't understand that jesus was the son of god. Sick.
    Christian nazis???

    Hitler may in public have claimed to be doing the will of God, but records of his private conversations show otherwise. Many of these were recorded by his secretary and published in a book called Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953). I have lifted the text of these from the soc.religion.christian newsgroup's Hitler FAQ.
    Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

    "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
    "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
    "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

    10th October, 1941, midday

    "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

    14th October, 1941, midday

    "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
    "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
    "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
    "Christianity the liar....
    "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

    19th October, 1941, night

    "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

    21st October, 1941, midday

    "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
    "The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
    "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, ******s? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

    13th December, 1941, midnight

    "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
    "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

    14th December, 1941, midday

    "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
    "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

    9th April, 1942, dinner

    "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

    27th February, 1942, midday

    "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
    "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
    Quotes Establishing Hitler's Non-Atheism
    "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
    "For their interests [the Church's] cannot fail to coincide with ours [the National Socialists] alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life".


    Both of these quotes are from Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942, cited in an Internet article by Doug Krueger.


    Another interesting quote from Hitler is found in a book by Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Armaments:


    "I often feel that we will have to undergo all the trials the devil and hell can devise before we achieve Final Victory....I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man. That is to say, I believe that he who fights valiantly obeying the laws which a god has established and who never capitulates but instead gathers his forces time after time and always pushes forward—such a man will not be abandoned by the Lawgiver. Rather he will ultimately receive the blessing of Providence. And that blessing has been imparted to all great spirits in history." (Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich : Memoirs. Bonanza Books ; Distributed by Crown Publishers, 1982, cited in an Internet article by Kevin Davids).

    These sentiments are obviously neither atheist nor Christian.
    The decisions you make today, will determine who you are tomorrow.

  3. #211
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertol
    Christian nazis???

    Hitler may in public have claimed to be doing the will of God, but records of his private conversations show otherwise. Many of these were recorded by his secretary and published in a book called Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953). I have lifted the text of these from the soc.religion.christian newsgroup's Hitler FAQ.
    Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

    "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
    "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
    "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

    10th October, 1941, midday

    "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

    14th October, 1941, midday

    "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
    "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
    "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
    "Christianity the liar....
    "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

    19th October, 1941, night

    "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

    21st October, 1941, midday

    "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
    "The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
    "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, ******s? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

    13th December, 1941, midnight

    "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
    "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

    14th December, 1941, midday

    "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
    "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

    9th April, 1942, dinner

    "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

    27th February, 1942, midday

    "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
    "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
    Quotes Establishing Hitler's Non-Atheism
    "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
    "For their interests [the Church's] cannot fail to coincide with ours [the National Socialists] alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life".


    Both of these quotes are from Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942, cited in an Internet article by Doug Krueger.


    Another interesting quote from Hitler is found in a book by Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister of Armaments:


    "I often feel that we will have to undergo all the trials the devil and hell can devise before we achieve Final Victory....I may be no pious churchgoer, but deep within me I am nevertheless a devout man. That is to say, I believe that he who fights valiantly obeying the laws which a god has established and who never capitulates but instead gathers his forces time after time and always pushes forward—such a man will not be abandoned by the Lawgiver. Rather he will ultimately receive the blessing of Providence. And that blessing has been imparted to all great spirits in history." (Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich : Memoirs. Bonanza Books ; Distributed by Crown Publishers, 1982, cited in an Internet article by Kevin Davids).

    These sentiments are obviously neither atheist nor Christian.
    All well and good except these quotes are no more valid than the bible. It's all hearsay. You'll have to do better than a secretary's recolection.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  4. #212
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Button
    It really doesn't make alot of sense to me either. Christianity grew out of judiasm and touts the old testament to be a part of the bible that we as christians are to follow but they are so different from each other that it makes you wonder...

    Also, why would God make one small tribe his people and to hell with everybody else that doesn't accept his son as their savior. Under Jewish law there is no hell?
    In Jewish holy texts there is no hell. Yes, I know the Christians translated some to try to make it seem like we have one, but we don't in our own books. The whole 'afterlife' propostion is pretty iffy, in general.

    We do have a fairly complicated concept of reincarnation, but even assuming that happens, the you that's here now wouldn't ever come back.

    Christianity has a lot more in common with the pagan religions of the Levant than it does with Judaism. Not a slam, there's quite a lot of paganism in Judaism, too, just a different variety - your religion believes in a dying-and-resurrected saviour God and that people have afterlives, and ours believes God's a verb, though the whole idea of God is up for debate as well - you don't have to believe, but you do have to really work out the questions.

    There isn't anything in Jewish scripture that dictates Gentiles have to do anything special except the common sense stuff to be good people. You're not required to follow the ten commandments, Jewish law, or believe in anything. Just be a decent person.

    So while we get pretty complicated cos we do take the 'working it out' bit seriously, on the one hand there's not all that much you have to do, but on the other hand there is. Nobody gets a free pardon. You don't get thrown into hell after you die (cos aside from your neshama there isn't a you after you die), but you're expected to live rightly.

    Here. Now. Cos that's all there is. Which doesn't preclude a God. It just makes it difficult for Jews to understand why Christians are running around trying to get saved, and Christians failing to understand why Jews follow laws when we basically believe that this life is it.

  5. #213
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Damn....we just don't have threads like we used to...........



    I miss comple kid. He was one smart cookie.

    Any new thoughts on this oldie?

  6. #214
    Yawn...'s Avatar
    Yawn... is offline I ain't got time for pedantic Ghandi type internet nerds
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Damn....we just don't have threads like we used to...........



    I miss comple kid. He was one smart cookie.

    Any new thoughts on this oldie?
    Yup. Few if any thoughtful threads these days.......

    •••••••••••••••• ••••••••

    My thoughts with respect to what the 'Kid' was stating ->

    My 'Christian' GF asked my opinion concerning the rise and dominance of Christianity in the western world.

    I attempted to explain to her objectively and from a historical perspective as to why....

    In essence, and as viewed by many, Jesus was an uneducated Rabbi with a strong following. He disagreed with those who collaborated with Rome.

    The political/religious movement spread (and was co-opted) after his death, adopting many of the 'non-Jewish' customs, myths, and theology popular in the Roman Empire.

    The notion that this obscure Rabbi 'believed' as modern Christians do today is a little far fetched.

    The 'virgin' birth? Give me a break ......

  7. #215
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawn... View Post
    Yup. Few if any thoughtful threads these days.......

    •••••••••••••••• ••••••••

    My thoughts with respect to what the 'Kid' was stating ->

    My 'Christian' GF asked my opinion concerning the rise and dominance of Christianity in the western world.

    I attempted to explain to her objectively and from a historical perspective as to why....

    In essence, and as viewed by many, Jesus was an uneducated Rabbi with a strong following. He disagreed with those who collaborated with Rome.

    The political/religious movement spread (and was co-opted) after his death, adopting many of the 'non-Jewish' customs, myths, and theology popular in the Roman Empire.

    The notion that this obscure Rabbi 'believed' as modern Christians do today is a little far fetched.

    The 'virgin' birth? Give me a break ......


    That's pretty much the conclusion I've come to as well.
    I talked about that in this thread.

  8. #216
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie View Post
    Not counting the people on scam, I can count 12 athiests that I know although to be fair I am not in touch with a few any more. All of them I would trust with the lives of my family. I suppose adding to that number those that I have come to know on scam.com, that number has grown to about the size of a good football team with offense and defence squads. Anybody know a good place kicker that doesn't pray before each point after try?
    Many people say they are atheists,but they don't even know what it means

  9. #217
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by baxy View Post
    Many people say they are atheists,but they don't even know what it means
    So, what does it mean?
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  10. #218
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    So, what does it mean?
    You don't know what it means.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  11. #219
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by baxy View Post
    Many people say they are atheists,but they don't even know what it means
    Wow, another big thinker shows up. Care to enlighten us?

  12. #220
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    You don't know what it means.
    Let er rip, smart ass...what does it mean to you?
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  13. #221
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Let er rip, smart ass...what does it mean to you?
    Good grief. You claim to be an atheist but you don't even know what that is?

    ing1:
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  14. #222
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    Good grief. You claim to be an atheist but you don't even know what that is?

    ing1:
    Is this where I get to call you the liar?

    I think it is...

    I was asking for your definition. But of course you knew that...

    Your reply, I'm sure will be..."I have that information but I'm not sharing it"...

    jhokey...?:blunt:
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  15. #223
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Is this where I get to call you the liar?

    I think it is...

    I was asking for your definition. But of course you knew that...

    Your reply, I'm sure will be..."I have that information but I'm not sharing it"...

    jhokey...?:blunt:
    Why are you asking for a definition? Are you being obtuse or do you really not know???
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  16. #224
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joecool44 View Post
    Why are you asking for a definition? Are you being obtuse or do you really not know???
    U have that information, but you're not sharing it...I know...

    lol
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

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