View Poll Results: Do you know an atheist?

Voters
25. This poll is closed
  • I know an atheist, and I believe they can be moral.

    22 88.00%
  • I know an atheist, but I don't believe they can be moral.

    2 8.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, but I believe they can be moral.

    1 4.00%
  • I don't know any atheists, and I don't believe they can be moral.

    0 0%
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  1. #145
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    I never said that. I am trying to have an intellectual conversation here and haven't even got that far because no one has defined a universal morality in which to judge anyone.
    There is no universal morality. Even the many religions cannot agree on just one. Each of us have our own set of morals. Even a democracy cannot unanimously come to accept just one set of morals. Geez.

    I have already said that people that don't believe in God can live "good" lives according to the world's standard of good[/B], however that will not count towards eternity, if you know your Bible.!
    Once again. There is no world's standard of good.
    That is right because God gave them a conscience, which means with knowledge, to know what is right and wrong and that in fact God exists.
    So I've no concience or knowledge to know what is right and wrong because I've no reason to believe god exists? Absurd. I seriously think that what I felt was right you would agree with. And what I felt was wrong you would agree with. I therefor would be just as moral and know as much about right and wrong as you. Try me.
    Drugs that alter your spirit, your ability to recognize right from wrong
    would be a sin, in my humble opinion.
    But there are many christian drug users. Even in the priest and minister ranks.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  2. #146
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    I know where my spirit will be for eternity, do you?
    .
    All this time trying to convince us that there was a god and now you can start over with the "spirit". what's next, flying dragons?:D :D :D
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  3. #147
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    And hatred and intolerance! Haha did you see the South Park episode where in the future everyone's an atheist but they disagree on some little detail so they are at war? I totally don't think that would happen but still funny.
    Didn't see that one but I'll bet it's as good as the episode on evolution. :D
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  4. #148
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    That's fine but that wasn't my point. I was simply saying that the term "atheist" doesn't mean "against God" or "against religion".
    As I've said before, atheism is simply the default position. Everyone is born an atheist and remain so until they have heard of a god.
    It's simply the default position.
    Agreed. I am often associated with the few that are actively trying to stamp out religion in society. I mentioned before that there is a push on to have "In god we trust" removed from our currency. I understand their reasoning but I don't care to have my tax dollars spent to make it happen. Athiesm is the default position although I've never thought of it like that. Kind of like going to the fights. Lets just sit back, have a beer in the cheap seats and watch the believers duke it out.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  5. #149
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Oh come on, three people "saw" that happen and then just wrote down that there were lots of witnesses.
    I could do that right now. I could get me and my 2 closest friends to write that I rose from the dead in our diaries and maybe in a few thousand years there would be a religion named after me.
    Subjunktians? Subjunkists. Subjunkies?
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  6. #150
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Subjunktians? Subjunkists. Subjunkies?
    Haha awesome. "SubJunk" actually started out as "SubJunkie" so the last one would be very fitting!

  7. #151
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agitator
    Given the large percentage of the humanity that believes in a God, Darwin might have been wrong after all in his theory of the "survival of the fittest". You can be weak, ignorant, a follower, and down right stupid, and still be part of the controlling majority.
    Seen IDIOCRACY yet? The creator of Beavis & Butthead and "King of the Hill" argues that it's not the meek who will inherit the Earth, but the incredibly stupid.

    And there was a brief comment a long while back that Israel was the only nation created by a religion, but modern-day India and Pakistan definitely fit on that list as well. How did the residents of colonial India celebrate their freedom from British rule? By slaughtering each other, of course, and they didn't stop until they each had their own piece of land. Then it happened again in Yugoslavia, and then Iraq...making you think that perhaps the original monolithic governments that oppressed everyone equally weren't such a bad idea after all.
    Last edited by RudyV; 04-06-2007 at 06:31 AM.

  8. #152
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    To follow up on Darwin, I was amused to discover that naturalists admit it's not always the fittest who get to pass on their DNA, as described in the accurately-titled "sneaky f--ker" theory: "low-status males will sneak around and mate with the females when they know the alpha male is not paying attention" (from http://bioevolution.tribe.net/thread...2-3f08d1fbc3dc).

    Another web site (http://www.ub.uib.no/elpub/2000/h/70...-__8221_T.html), which claims that the people of Galapagos use the native animals to explain their own lives, guides us back into the territory of morality when it suggests that adultery is commonplace in both the local women and in the local albatrosses--each will commit to a lifetime bond with one male, then spend the rest of their lives breeding with any dominant male they happen to find.
    Last edited by RudyV; 04-06-2007 at 07:49 AM.

  9. #153
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    I'm curious, enlightenme007.
    If God materialized and did some amazing tricks that proved beyond doubt he was God, even to the most cynical person, then said "now all you men, you must each rape ten women or else you will never get to Heaven, you will burn in Hell for all eternity" would you do it?
    I'm not sure if you're a man or not so if you're a woman he says "all you men, you must each stab 10 men in the face or else you will never get to Haven, you will burn in Hell for all eternity".

  10. #154
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    All this time trying to convince us that there was a god and now you can start over with the "spirit". what's next, flying dragons?:D :D :D
    yes of course!?soul HAS to inhabit spirit to find expression or manifestation if you will!?no choice there really!?that's LIFE defined for this world!?and the next!?you do believe in the NEXT!?next day,next time,next door,next in line,.....as long as your next aint hexed/vexed........you got it good!?dont you!?JOB had it good!?hehe!!....just askin.....

  11. #155
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    I'm curious, enlightenme007.
    If God materialized and did some amazing tricks that proved beyond doubt he was God, even to the most cynical person, then said "now all you men, you must each rape ten women or else you will never get to Heaven, you will burn in Hell for all eternity" would you do it?
    I'm not sure if you're a man or not so if you're a woman he says "all you men, you must each stab 10 men in the face or else you will never get to Haven, you will burn in Hell for all eternity".
    i'm tellin you all from where i sit the complaints against a god never change and they are of a few types!?and repetitive!?and though many TRY to explain the contradictions due to a misunderstanding of the role of a god those who oppose the god idea persist as if nothing had been resolved at all FOR THEM!?it's like watchin 2 yr old kids just be stubborn for stubborness sake!?(been there dun that!?)hehe!!....just askin...

  12. #156
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    The Bible does not say slavery is allowed. People because of sin allowed slavery. If you know the Bible so well then you know that God's own people in the O.T. were in slavery. In New Testament read the book of Philemon and you will see that God through Paul recognized that slavery existed because humans chose to put people in slavery, however God said not to treat them differently. Look at Philemon.

    An old preacher of mine sent me a bible study once on cassette tape, covering a different topic than this, but how it began seems to apply.
    Here is how it started out:

    You may notice that in today's modern preaching and teaching, they are rife with wording such as, "I think." "I believe." "What this is really talking about."

    But we are not concerned with what we think the bible says. We are only interested in what thus saith the Word of God.

    I read Philemon again as you suggested.
    What does Philemon say?

    Paul is writing a letter to a fellow brother in Christ on behalf of a new convert who happens to be said brother's slave.
    Paul tells Philemon that he is sending the slave back, but to please accept him back as a brother in Christ; to forgive him.

    How many other slaves might Philemon have?
    Is Paul telling Philemon to free all the slaves?
    Is he even necessarily telling Philemon to free Onesimus from bondage?
    ...or is he, after praising Philemon's generosity and charitable heart, asking Philemon to forgive the slave as a fellow brother in Christ?

    Does the old testament have laws expressly forbidding slavery or does it clarify how one should treat their slaves?
    Does the new testament expressly forbid slavery or does it clarify how one should treat their slaves and how slaves should act towards their masters?
    Does the new testament only include one letter to Philemon from Paul concerning one particular case of compassion about one particular slave named Onesimus?

    Where does the bible condemn slavery?
    It doesn't.
    It only clarifies how one should treat their slaves.

    On another note, I am fully aware of the stories of God's chosen people's captivity.
    It has no bearing on God's apparent allowance for His chosen people to keep their own slaves.

  13. #157
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    as far as the POLL goes.......IT'S RIGGED!?and that's the way with all NON democratic choices!?it makes MANY presumptions that have no basis in fact!?it's trickery at it's DEVILISH best!?for one example,all "common" morality is relative!?relative to cooperation!?and cooperation in the so named "real' world is defined by money/status!?hehe!!.....just askin.....

  14. #158
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    Read the Bible for yourself so you don't have to think it is my opinion.
    I have read the bible in its entirety.
    What I'd like to see from you is a list of God's moral code.
    Should be easy enough for you, since you seem to understand far better than us rebellious atheist types what constitutes moral behavior.



    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    None. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, He died and rose again.
    What other prophet has done that? The Bible is the Word of the one
    and only true God.
    Come on. Think outside the box for a bit. I'm sure you could come up with many books covering topics of completely moral behaviors. I bet you'd even consider them in line with your holy book's "authority" though they be of a secular nature.




    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    Do you represent to know the bible or not? If you do then you should know that the Bible states that everyone's heart is wicked, thus your claim that I have said atheists have the heart without the deed is wrong on many levels.
    Uh....huh....
    My response was to your comparison of atheists to Pharisees.
    Pharisees were extremely devoted, albeit pompous.
    Why do you think Jesus said they were like whited sepulcres?
    These folks were real pretty on the oustide. By their deeds, they were in line with Mosaic law...to a tee. They even erred on the side of caution and made it harder on themselves than they had to.
    But what do sepulcres look like on the inside? They are full of death, of course! Rot, decay, stagnation.
    The Pharisees followed the law to the letter, but only because the law said so...much as you are saying in your arguments. Their heart was not in it. They weren't doing it through joy, but rather necessity...the Word of God says so...sound familiar?

    I can't speak for others, but personally, I do deeds of goodness because I want to, not because I checked the bible to make sure it was ok first.

    It only stands to reason that an imperfect creature could not ever hope to compare to a perfect creature on a righteousness scale.
    Imperfect creatures can only ever do their work in an imperfect way...no matter how small the imperfection is.
    Perfect creatures would have no choice but to do everything in complete perfection.

    ....but we're not talking about perfection or imperfection are we, E?
    We're talking about morals.
    If a person does not murder, but is also not a christian...is his/her behavior immoral in this regard?
    If a person does not steal, but is not a christian...is his/her behavior regarding theft reprehensible?

    Would you say that the non-christian who does not steal or murder should be guilty of theft or murder?
    Of course not! Their morals tell them it is wrong to steal and kill.
    If it were true that atheists have no morals as you suggest, I'd be an oversexed psychopath. Do you believe I am? Do you believe subjunk or bogie can rightly decide the appropriate moral action regarding theft or murder? If you believe they CAN choose not to steal without regard to what your holy book says on the subject, then surly you can see that they have the ability to uphold moral standards outside of religious belief.




    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    That passage of scripture describes everyone that thinks they are good or moral because of what they do.
    I don't know how else to say this...you are wrong.
    Jesus was talking to Pharisees.


    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    In God's eyes, I am saying what the Bible says mind you and not trying to convince anyone that they are wrong,
    E, it is ok with me if you just admit that you ARE in fact trying to convince all here that disagree with you that we are wrong. You wouldn't be here if you didn't feel convicted to show us how wrong you think we are.


    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    In God's eyes, righteousness only comes from His Son, those that have put their trust in Jesus' death on the cross as payment for sin and His resurrection as proof of everlasting life.
    Everyone else is outside of God until that righteousness is imputed to an individual through Jesus Christ.
    I think we get it already. No one is righteous, no not one. blah, blah, blah.

    This does not mean that one cannot act morally.
    It only means that compared to a perfect being, all things that are imperfect will remain imperfect. There is no comparison.





    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    The Bible says that without exercising your spirit, physical exercise profiteth little because as you and everyone knows our physical body will die, but our spirit lives eternal. I know where my spirit will be for eternity, do you?
    Yup, when the electrical impulses in my brain die out, my conscious will cease to exist forever. My body will rot. The same as you.


    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    Does your answer concern you?
    Not in the least.



    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenme007
    I don't find it faulty in the least bit.
    Like Aslan says in "The Last Battle" from the Chronicles of Narnia:

    Further up and further in!

    Read deeper, my friend. Read objectively. Study critically. Take off the religious glasses through which you study your bible and analyze your holy book. You may be surprised with what you find.
    Last edited by bibleman; 04-06-2007 at 01:46 PM.

  15. #159
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    bibleman, check the wiki on Pharisees. They were a remarkably democratic lot, and if Jesus existed at all, he probably was one of them.

    Even in Acts, Rabban Gamliel (we know he existed from extra-biblical sources) said not to persecute Christians.

    Which kinda throws Paul's - or Psuedo-Paul's writing or redactors into some dispute, but so it goes.

  16. #160
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    Re: Do you know an atheist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Oh come on, three people "saw" that happen and then just wrote down that there were lots of witnesses.
    .
    On what basis do you make this statement?
    The decisions you make today, will determine who you are tomorrow.

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