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  1. #1
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    10 False Flags that Changed the World

    9/11 Blogger
    Sunday, March 4, 2007

    Blogger Joe Crubaugh has just finished an excellent series posted on his blog, Hard-Boiled Dreams of the World;

    10 False Flags that Changed the World
    ..............................
    10. Nero, Christians, and the Great Fire of Rome

    9. Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain

    8. The Manchurian Incident

    7. Secrets of the Reichstag Fire

    6. Fake Invasion at Gleiwitz

    5. The Myth of Pearl Harbor

    4. Israeli Terrorist Cell Uncovered in Egypt

    3. U.S.-Sponsored Terrorism: Operation Northwoods

    2. Phantoms in the Gulf of Tonkin

    {{drumroll}}

    NUMBER ONE

    The September 11, 2001 Attacks
    go there for the meat and potatos


    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...40307Flags.htm

  2. #2
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Nice top 10 list.

    Each one deserves it's own place to be refuted (Although I might try to hang with you on a couple of them).

    You pick a number, and we can start there, okay? That's more than fair, isn't it?
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  3. #3
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeguana
    Nice top 10 list.

    Each one deserves it's own place to be refuted (Although I might try to hang with you on a couple of them).

    You pick a number, and we can start there, okay? That's more than fair, isn't it?
    nothing to refute Pug. I posted the link because the readers here expect the truth from me. Especially if I start the thread.
    Too pug its expected that the 1st poster will be a wiz type, and sure enough you posted 1st! A trap I set out that snared you first. You got caught but we'll play catch and release, like with fish. Your turn....

  4. #4
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by soulbro
    nothing to refute Pug. I posted the link because the readers here expect the truth from me. Especially if I start the thread.
    Too pug its expected that the 1st poster will be a wiz type, and sure enough you posted 1st! A trap I set out that snared you first. You got caught but we'll play catch and release, like with fish. Your turn....
    Well if that's your game, what's the point? I'll not take the bait then. And neither will anyone else with a friggin' brain cell left. But hey, I'll run with you, even in a "trap" like setting, but don't expect mercy. Anyone can start a thread, but can they finish it? :D
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  5. #5
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Hi Lee,
    I'm curious why the fire of Rome and Nero would be on this list... especially since the author of the article stated (and it is generally accepted) that it was probable that Nero was not involved in it. Granted, he took advantage of it to garner land for his palace project and sought to blame the christians for it, but that seems more like fall-out or after-effects of the fire rather than the purpose. Nero taking advantage of a situation would not make this a 'false-flag' operation.

    Any ideas??

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Hi Lee,
    I'm curious why the fire of Rome and Nero would be on this list... especially since the author of the article stated (and it is generally accepted) that it was probable that Nero was not involved in it. Granted, he took advantage of it to garner land for his palace project and sought to blame the christians for it, but that seems more like fall-out or after-effects of the fire rather than the purpose. Nero taking advantage of a situation would not make this a 'false-flag' operation.

    Any ideas??
    I guess Nero taking advantage of the situation must be what the author means by "false-flag". The fire really had nothing to do with any conspiracy, it was just an event used to kill Christians. Unlike the 911 CT, which is about our govenment committing the act and blaming someone else, the Nero false flag CT is about Nero not committing the act, but still blaming it on someone else. By definition, it shouldn't be classified as a false flag:

    (From Wikipedia):False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  7. #7
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeguana
    I guess Nero taking advantage of the situation must be what the author means by "false-flag". The fire really had nothing to do with any conspiracy, it was just an event used to kill Christians. Unlike the 911 CT, which is about our govenment committing the act and blaming someone else, the Nero false flag CT is about Nero not committing the act, but still blaming it on someone else. By definition, it shouldn't be classified as a false flag:

    (From Wikipedia):False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities
    That's what I thought as well. I believe "scapegoating" (if that's really a word *lol*) would be a more realistic description.
    ================

    The next item I'm questioning is the sinking of the USS Maine. I believe this would fall into a similar catagory as the Nero scenario. The Spanish were a scapegoat. At the time the Naval inquiry concluded it was a mine, but more recent findings lean more toward the cause being a coal-bunker fire (a common occurrance in that era). In either case the sinking of the Maine was not the result of covert US actions.
    Your views?

  8. #8
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    That's what I thought as well. I believe "scapegoating" (if that's really a word *lol*) would be a more realistic description.
    ================

    The next item I'm questioning is the sinking of the USS Maine. I believe this would fall into a similar catagory as the Nero scenario. The Spanish were a scapegoat. At the time the Naval inquiry concluded it was a mine, but more recent findings lean more toward the cause being a coal-bunker fire (a common occurrance in that era). In either case the sinking of the Maine was not the result of covert US actions.
    Your views?
    The blogger who posted these supposed "10 False Flags", Joe Crubaugh, apparently doesn't know the meaning of the term false flags. You're right Paul, this is just like Nero, #10. There is absolutely no evidence that the US planted any mines, if it was indeed an externally caused explosion. Of course, the article does say this:

    "One thing, however, is almost certain: if the explosion was caused by a mine, it wasn’t planted by Spain."

    Typical CT lack of reason and logic. He doesn't even know if a mine caused the explosion (he cites no evidence), yet he's almost certain (again, with no evidence) that if it was a mine, it wasn't planted by Spain. I read this statement as also implying that, since a mine (which once again, he has no evidence for) wasn't planted by Spain, it must have been planted by the US. Hell, he might as well come right out and say the US planted a mine. He would have as much proof for this statement as the other conclusions he has come to. Absolutely none! :)

    I found this on Wikipedia:

    "EXTERNAL MINE THEORY - The theory that a mine, allegedly planted by the Spanish as a way to deter the efforts of the United States to take Cuba, is the assumption that some Americans came to immediately after the sinking, because it provided the stimulus for war that they had been seeking. The McKinley administration rejected that line of thinking."

    Why would the administration reject this line of thinking? If the US planted a mine and blew up our own ship to create a reason for war with Spain, wouldn't the administration embrace the idea that Spain planted the mine? It just doesn't seem to add up.
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  9. #9
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Moving along there Lee... On to #8 The Manchurian Incident.

    From what little I know about this one it seems legit... Japan faking a Chinese railway attack as an excuse to gain Manchuria. I'm at work and can't look too deeply into this at this time. What do you think... legit or not?

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Moving along there Lee... On to #8 The Manchurian Incident.

    From what little I know about this one it seems legit... Japan faking a Chinese railway attack as an excuse to gain Manchuria. I'm at work and can't look too deeply into this at this time. What do you think... legit or not?
    This does appear to be accurate. The Japanese set off explosives on their own section of railroad tracks, blamed it on the Chinese, and used this as a pretext for invasion. No injuries or deaths occurred in the explosion. In fact, according to Wiki (and I've found this on other sites, as well):

    "the explosion was minor and only a 1.5 meter section on one side of the rail was damaged. In fact, a train from Changchun passed by the site without much problem and arrived at Shenyang at 10:30PM"

    Hardly a 911 caliber false flag claim, but at least this one is an actual "False Flag".
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  11. 03-08-2007, 12:50 AM


  12. #11
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Here's the "score" so far... I have to go with #s 7 and 6 as legit... they're too well known.

    10. Nero, Christians, and the Great Fire of Rome NO

    9. Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain NO

    8. The Manchurian Incident YES

    7. Secrets of the Reichstag Fire YES

    6. Fake Invasion at Gleiwitz YES

    ===========
    Moving on... #5 Pearl Harbor

    I would have to give this one a NO. The Japanese did attack... nothing ficticious about that. It is disputed whether or not Roosevelt's administration knew the attack was coming or set events in motion which would lead to the attack... drawing the U.S. into the war. However, this does not constitute a "by-the-book" false-flag operation since Japan was guilty of the attack... regardless of their motivation.
    What do you think Lee...

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Here's the "score" so far... I have to go with #s 7 and 6 as legit... they're too well known.

    10. Nero, Christians, and the Great Fire of Rome NO

    9. Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain NO

    8. The Manchurian Incident YES

    7. Secrets of the Reichstag Fire YES

    6. Fake Invasion at Gleiwitz YES

    ===========
    Moving on... #5 Pearl Harbor

    I would have to give this one a NO. The Japanese did attack... nothing ficticious about that. It is disputed whether or not Roosevelt's administration knew the attack was coming or set events in motion which would lead to the attack... drawing the U.S. into the war. However, this does not constitute a "by-the-book" false-flag operation since Japan was guilty of the attack... regardless of their motivation.
    What do you think Lee...
    I'm not as willing to give a yes to the Reichstag Fire, since there is no consensus that it wasn't the "lone crazy Dutch communist" who started the fire. Though the Nazis sure used it to their advavtage. But, considering the history of Nazis, I'm willing to concede on that one. And the Gleiwitz Invasion is definitely a yes.

    Pearl Harbor, so far, has to be the biggest NO on the list. Unless American pilots were flying the Japanese planes, there is no way this qualifies as a false flag.
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Yeah... knowing the Nazi's history I'd say it was definately a "YES"... but can concede a "POSSIBLE" at this time. we can revisit it later.
    SCORE:
    10 = NO
    9 = NO
    8 = YES
    7 = POSSIBLE
    6 = YES
    5 = NO

    So far it's pretty even down the line. I'm still @ work, but will be back later on & can pick this back up... unless you want to press on & I catch-up.

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Ok Lee... #4 Israeli Terrorist Cell Uncovered in Egypt

    Otherwise known as The Lavon Affair.
    In the early 1950s the United States began pressuring the British to withdraw from the Suez Canal, and thereby abandon two operative treaties, the Convention of Constantinople and the Anglo-Egyptian Treaty of 1936 that made the canal a neutral zone under British control. Israel was strongly opposed to the British withdrawal, as it feared that it would remove a moderating effect on Nasser's military ambitions, especially toward Israel, but diplomatic methods failed to sway the British. In the summer of 1954 Colonel Binyamin Gibli, the chief of Israel's military intelligence, Aman, initiated Operation Suzannah in order to reverse that decision. The goal of the Operation was to carry out bombings and other acts of sabotage in Egypt with the aim of creating an atmosphere in which the British and American opponents of British withdrawal from Egypt would be able to gain the upper hand and block the withdrawal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
    I didn't know anything about this so I wanted to read the article then look it up & compare. I'd say we've got a solid "YES" with this one.

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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Ok Lee... #4 Israeli Terrorist Cell Uncovered in Egypt

    Otherwise known as The Lavon Affair.


    I didn't know anything about this so I wanted to read the article then look it up & compare. I'd say we've got a solid "YES" with this one.
    Agreed. False flag.

    Can't wait until we get to number 1 on the list. That ought to be a doozy. :) I have to take off now, so I probably won't be able to get back on until tomorrow night. Later.
    "Science is evidence without proof. Creationism is proof without evidence."

  17. #16
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    Re: 10 False Flags that Changed the World

    checking the score...
    10 NO
    9 NO
    8 YES
    7 YES (POSSIBLE?)
    6 YES
    5 NO
    4 YES

    =====
    #3 Operation Northwoods.
    I'd have to give this one a "NO". IF IMPLIMENTED... Operation Northwoods would qualify as a "YES". However, it was only approved for planning and submission, not implimentation. Also, on a side note, the article's author seems to want to blend elements of Operation Mongoose (another unapproved related plan) into Operation Northwoods.
    IMO it would be more appropriate to catagorize Operation Northwoods as similar to being the product of a brainstorming session... just an idea, a rejected idea at that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

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