1. #1937

    Re: Freedom with UFIRST! (United First Financial)

    There is a video on YouTube easily found by searching on UFirst Lunch there.
    The innumerate well-spoken man there claims that if you save $2000/yr (presumably by not eating a $7 lunch each work day) that over 45 years it will be worth $10M.
    Sit back, and prepare to read how I can prove him wrong off the top of my head.
    $2000 times 45 years is $90K, no? (everybody - "Yes, Joe!)
    If one had $90K to start, they are better off that $2K/yr over the 45 years.
    At 6%, money doubles every 12 years. (you know your rule of 72, right?)
    So, after 12 years, $180K, 24 years $360K, 36 years $720K 48 years $1.44M
    But - it was not there the whole time. Half the time was 22.5 years, so due to compounding, the right result is more like "between the $360K and $720K."
    When you run the numbers on a calculator or spreadsheet, you find the result is $425,487.
    This joker fronting for UFirst claims $10M, and has UFirst's endorsement, they put up his video.
    They also removed my polite comment suggesting his honest error.
    This example is the very definition of innumeracy. It would take the "Rain Man" to calculate the exact number off the top of his head, but a regular Joe can at least get the order of magnitude right, my God, he was off by a factor of 20X.
    Does anyone really want to trust this company when they can't catch this simple error?

  2. #1938
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    35

    Re: Freedom with UFIRST! (United First Financial)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTaxpayer View Post
    There is a video on YouTube easily found by searching on UFirst Lunch there.
    The innumerate well-spoken man there claims that if you save $2000/yr (presumably by not eating a $7 lunch each work day) that over 45 years it will be worth $10M.
    Sit back, and prepare to read how I can prove him wrong off the top of my head.
    $2000 times 45 years is $90K, no? (everybody - "Yes, Joe!)
    If one had $90K to start, they are better off that $2K/yr over the 45 years.
    At 6%, money doubles every 12 years. (you know your rule of 72, right?)
    So, after 12 years, $180K, 24 years $360K, 36 years $720K 48 years $1.44M
    But - it was not there the whole time. Half the time was 22.5 years, so due to compounding, the right result is more like "between the $360K and $720K."
    When you run the numbers on a calculator or spreadsheet, you find the result is $425,487.
    This joker fronting for UFirst claims $10M, and has UFirst's endorsement, they put up his video.
    They also removed my polite comment suggesting his honest error.
    This example is the very definition of innumeracy. It would take the "Rain Man" to calculate the exact number off the top of his head, but a regular Joe can at least get the order of magnitude right, my God, he was off by a factor of 20X.
    Does anyone really want to trust this company when they can't catch this simple error?
    I can't believe he said that either! Just so everyone knows, this is an official UFF produced video starring Todd Skousen. He is listed on his LinkdIn page as the "VP of Marketing for United First Financial". Being off by pennies, dollars, or more is not par for the course at UFF. No, they prefer to be off by orders of magnitude.

    Funny, I thought Todd was related to that "professor of accounting" that shilled for UFF in a video years ago which many agents linked to. I think it was K. Fred Skousen?

  3. #1939

    Re: United First Financial/ LunchBoy Video

    I wrote about this as a post on my ongoing Money Merge Account Analysis series. I did go on to say that a return of 16% would produce those very results he cites. We are all human, who among us hasn't written "there" when he meant "their"? Perfectly understandable.

    What I find unforgivable, though, is that my very polite correction with actual numbers, was deleted as spam.

    What I find ROTFLMAO ironic is that this video was made for agents and presumably the first few hundred hits were agents.

    I first read the book Innumeracy when it was published, back in 1988 and I still have it on my bookshelf. It wasn't until I was exposed to UFirst and MMA that I saw an example of it in the wild.

    You saw my explanation, how I can spot such an error in seconds. Here's another. That rule of 72 says 12 years to double at 6%. So, if you have $10M in yr 45, and work backwards, in year 33, you need $5M, year 21, $2.5M, year 9, $1.25M. Forgive my seeming arrogance, but when I was growing up calculators were just invented. Anyone remember paying $100 for a 4 function (you know - add, subtract, multiply, divide) calculator? The rule of 72, when you know how to use it, is great to estimate, and at least catch gross errors like this.

    Let me be clear. What's intuitive to me and the other naysayers may not be so easy for the average person. But the lesson takes a few minutes to learn, and in the end, there's zero math needed beyond one's ability to balance their checkbook, as I hope they do anyway. UFirst's greatest asset is people's ignorance. Videos like this one exemplify that their business is not 50% marketing 50% math, but all marketing, and 100% scam.

    I'll even ignore the fact that there are not 240 work days in a year. I get 20 days vacation, 10 sick, 10 holidays. That's 210 work days not 240. When does 240 times $7 equal $2000? Answer - when UFirst thinks it helps market their scam.

  4. #1940
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    239

    Re: United First Financial

    MMA sales have been suspended in Alberta since April, and we recently found out why.

    Anything that leads from a Canadian agent's site to the "Opportunity" video seems to be the regulatory problem. From any agent site, if you follow the link to the corporate site, and then the “Testimonials” or “Money Merge Account Program” or any other link, you have access to “Opportunity” video link.

    The opportunity video is in violation of item 55 of the Competition Act:

    http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/e...tml#appendix_a

    Quote Originally Posted by Competition Act
    55. (1) For the purposes of this section and section 55.1, ‘‘multi-level marketing plan’’ means a plan for the supply of a product whereby a participant in the plan receives compensation for the supply of the product to another participant in the plan who, in turn, receives compensation for the supply of the same or another product to other participants in the plan.

    (2) No person who operates or participates in a multi-level marketing plan shall make any representations relating to compensation under the plan to a prospective participant in the plan unless the representations constitute or include fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information within the knowledge of the person making the representations relating to

    * (a) compensation actually received by typical participants in the plan; or
    * (b) compensation likely to be received by typical participants in the plan, having regard to any relevant considerations, including
    o (i) the nature of the product, including its price and availability,
    o (ii) the nature of the relevant market for the product,
    o (iii) the nature of the plan and similar plans, and
    o (iv) whether the person who operates the plan is a corporation, partnership, sole proprietorship or other form of business organization.

    (2.1) A person who operates a multi-level marketing plan shall ensure that any representations relating to compensation under the plan that are made to a prospective participant in the plan by a participant in the plan or by a representative of the person who operates the plan constitute or include fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information within the knowledge of the person who operates the plan relating to

    * (a) compensation actually received by typical participants in the plan; or
    * (b) compensation likely to be received by typical participants in the plan, having regard to any relevant considerations, including those specified in paragraph (2)(b).

    (2.2) A person accused of an offence under subsection (2.1) shall not be convicted of the offence if the accused establishes that he or she took reasonable precautions and exercised due diligence to ensure

    * (a) that no representations relating to compensation under the plan were made by participants in the plan or by representatives of the accused; or
    * (b) that any representations relating to compensation under the plan that were made by participants in the plan or by representatives of the accused constituted or included fair, reasonable and timely disclosure of the information referred to in that subsection.

    (3) Any person who contravenes subsection (2) or (2.1) is guilty of an offence and liable

    * (a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine in the discretion of the court or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both; or
    * (b) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding $200,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or to both.
    There is a link to a complaint form at the Competition Bureau website.

    We know that Co-founder John Washenko wants to pull out of Canada. I suggest Canadians file complaints against their local agents and make the UFirst pullout less voluntary.

    And to my American friends, you might want to forward the wording of item 55 to your state governments for consideration. You can try to forward it to Utah, but they love their MLMs so much that they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
    Last edited by BartBandy; 07-04-2010 at 11:31 AM.

  5. #1941
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    239

    Re: United First Financial

    The information out of UFirst and ex-UFirst people who email me is astounding.

    United First Financial is burning through cash right now. They had their 2010 annual convention booked at one point, but the Tennessee floods gave them reason to cancel, and no new convention has been booked.

    UFirst - what happened to your convention? You lost the ability to find a new venue and rebook?

    The pessimism from within is growing. They can see the end approaching. They know it. There is a movement from within to spin off a new company, using existing UFirst "technology" (lol) and poaching the best salespeople from the current ranks.

    Here's the problem with that approach: The people above those "top performers" receive override commissions. If UFirst folds and the principle owners spin off a new company and cherry pick the best salespeople to join them...those above the top performers lose their override commissions.

    Now we have little scammers being scammed by bigger scammers. Who do you cheer for in a situation like that?

    In any case, I'm dead serious. If you're a UFirst scammer with a large downline, including some top salespeople, watch out. You could be cut out of the chain.

  6. #1942

    Re: United First Financial

    I purchased the program 3 months after building a new home. I am NOT an agent for UFF. We purchased our home in Feb 2007. Our loan amount was $192,400.00 for 30 years. Pay off date 2/1/2037... with a total of $217,332 in interest over 30 years.

    We now owe $138,995. The MMA has saved us 16 yrs and now only owe $25,677.18 in intrest with a payoff date of 11/1/2015.

    Currently we are paying $453 to Principal and $684.74 to interest. Mortage calculator says as of 8/1/2010 we should be paying $239.65 to principle and $898.47 to interest.

    I don't care who thinks this is a scam or not... it is working for us and has saved us a ton of money. The only scam is run by the Banks who are making way too much money off hard working people.. these are true numbers... check them out.

  7. #1943

    Re: United First Financial

    Quote Originally Posted by kristyregira View Post
    I purchased the program 3 months after building a new home. I am NOT an agent for UFF. We purchased our home in Feb 2007. Our loan amount was $192,400.00 for 30 years. Pay off date 2/1/2037... with a total of $217,332 in interest over 30 years.
    sorry to hear you bought the overpriced software.
    We now owe $138,995. The MMA has saved us 16 yrs and now only owe $25,677.18 in intrest with a payoff date of 11/1/2015.
    the MMA has not saved you anything. It has cost you $3500+ interest. You paying more of your own money that you already had has saved you 16 years on your mortgage. You could have done better with less effort on your own.
    I don't care who thinks this is a scam or not... it is working for us and has saved us a ton of money. The only scam is run by the Banks who are making way too much money off hard working people.
    the bank loaned you nearly $200,000, and should be compensated for doing something you could have done much more easily and better on your own. You gave the UFF and their MLM agents $3500, plus gave the bank extra interest that you didn't have to, all because you were told it would be better.
    these are true numbers... check them out.
    if we had your income and expenses for the months leading up to now, we could show you numbers that would save you roughly 3 to 6 months shorter payoff time than with the MMA. they would be true numbers as well.
    I'm not selling anything, so I don't need links in my signature to for-profit ventures. You really should question the intentions of those here that have them, as they are generally advertising, not informing.

  8. #1944

    Re: United First Financial

    To update my friends. Tammy Lowe-Boucher is selling at the BRICK in downtown Edmonton. She claims to be the top sales person, a trainer, and doing the corporate training videos for the Brick.

    Our last communication she claims to be meeting with the CEO for a "job interview" over a store manager position.

    Impressive for someone who has been there for a year.

    When asked about united first she is no longer a cheerleader for them. She claims to be pursuing "other career opprotunities" and that "business is very busy with United First sales".

    To address the issue about her living in somenes basement rent free... yes. That was correct. She was living in her boyfriends parents rent free before she even started United First.

    Now she is renting in North Edmonton.

    A ziebra does not change its stripes.

    Ilovescammers out.

  9. #1945
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    239

    Re: United First Financial

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovescammers View Post
    To update my friends. Tammy Lowe-Boucher is selling at the BRICK in downtown Edmonton. She claims to be the top sales person, a trainer, and doing the corporate training videos for the Brick.

    Our last communication she claims to be meeting with the CEO for a "job interview" over a store manager position.

    Impressive for someone who has been there for a year.

    When asked about united first she is no longer a cheerleader for them. She claims to be pursuing "other career opprotunities" and that "business is very busy with United First sales".

    To address the issue about her living in somenes basement rent free... yes. That was correct. She was living in her boyfriends parents rent free before she even started United First.

    Now she is renting in North Edmonton.

    A ziebra does not change its stripes.

    Ilovescammers out.
    I know I brought up Tammy's name here, but I have no longstanding feud with her. She was just an incredibly amusing agent who lied so often and so obviously that she was probably the only person who believed her lies. She also added to what I think of as the funniest collection of dialogues with UFirst agents on the Intarwebs.

    The concept of anyone contemplating her as a store manager for anything above a lemonade stand is laughable, and while I never shop The Brick because of the predatory nature of the commissioned sales staff, I can see how she would survive in that environment. I'm actually happy that she has found real employment that makes the best possible use of her one true skill - lying.
    Last edited by BartBandy; 08-04-2010 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #1946

    Re: United First Financial

    Quote Originally Posted by BartBandy View Post
    I know I brought up Tammy's name here, but I have no longstanding feud with her. She was just an incredibly amusing agent who lied so often and so obviously that she was probably the only person who believed her lies. She also added to what I think of as the funniest collection of dialogues with UFirst agents on the Intarwebs.

    The concept of anyone contemplating her as a store manager for anything above a lemonade stand is laughable, and while I never shop The Brick because of the predatory nature of the commissioned sales staff, I can see how she would survive in that environment. I'm actually happy that she has found real employment that makes the best possible use of her one true skill - lying.
    I am bringing this up as she is very decieving, and to warn other people of who they are dealing with when her name is googled.

    Simply put, she can not be trusted.

  11. #1947
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    239

    Re: United First Financial

    Fair enough, but to me, she's not capable of "deception". I think she comes off as crazy, right from the start. I can't give her credit for being able to deceive - only lie. Badly.

    But mostly, I'm just happy she found a real job. Most UFirst agents have quit. There have been about 71,000 agents, and there have been only ~30,500 MMAs sold. Do the math - most agents don't have one sale, but UFirst raked in $12M in agent fees, plus any ongoing fees they got for their upgraded internal UTracker marketing software (precursor to the awful BizPack), and anything else they managed to sell to stupid agents with commission cheques in their eyes.

  12. #1948

    Re: United First Financial

    Usa financial is the most popular in world in other word most of the people every time see the usa for finance.....

  13. #1949
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1

    Re: United First Financial

    Mortgage acceleration does work. . I did payoff my mortgage early with it. Paying $3500 for it is a waste of money. You can get free help and guidance on this stuff by going to http://www.easydebtcures.com

  14. #1950

    Re: United First Financial

    one does not need to visit any website, just pay your extra income towards your highest rate loan, minimum on the rest until that high rate loan is gone. rinse, repeat. it's exactly that simple.
    I'm not selling anything, so I don't need links in my signature to for-profit ventures. You really should question the intentions of those here that have them, as they are generally advertising, not informing.

  15. #1951

    Re: United First Financial

    Quote Originally Posted by calvinandhobbes View Post
    one does not need to visit any website, just pay your extra income towards your highest rate loan, minimum on the rest until that high rate loan is gone. rinse, repeat. it's exactly that simple.
    Since most (by "most I mean "every last one") agents resort to analogies which are always ridiculous, I'll offer one.

    Calvin is right. No software, no website, no bother.
    I wrote a spreadsheet over a weekend which helps you track progress. But, to be clear, tacking, while it feels good, adds no value any more than your car speedometer causes acceleration. Which is why I sell it for what it's worth. Zero.
    What it does really well is to show you the "true cost" of MMA. Ready? It's $20,157. Wow, that's some coin. If you paid the $3500 to the mortgage on day one (6%, 30yr as in all MMA examples) you'd save $16,657 in future interest, plus the $3500 in immediate principal drop.
    Now, if any potential Victim wishes to think about this purchase, there are agents who will tell you anything, as they have a $2500 commission on the line, vs me, who will not accept a dime from you. I'll suggest you take some of the savings and donate to your local Vets or homeless shelter. It's good Karma. Need the sheet? Just google my name and spreadsheet, easy to find.

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