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  1. #1
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    Stoned Age Man Theory

    The "Stoned Ape" theory of human evolution

    Perhaps the most famous of Terence McKenna's theories and observations is his explanation for the origin of the human mind and culture. McKenna theorized that as the North African jungles receded toward the end of the most recent ice age, giving way to grasslands, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the branches and took up a life out in the open—following around herds of ungulates, nibbling what they could along the way.

    Among the new items in their diet were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing in the dung of these ungulate herds. McKenna supposed that psilocybin's verified enhancement of visual acuity was instrumental in the human dominance over prey. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including a physical sexual arousal—and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia—gave evolutionary advantages to those tribes who partook of it. There were many changes caused by the introduction of this drug to the primate diet. McKenna theorizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

    About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed the mushroom from the human diet, which McKenna argued to result in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to pre-mushroomed and brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin. However, in McKenna's theory, the psilocybin-induced dominance of humans over other species remained, despite our supposed devolution.
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  2. #2
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    That stuff is funny. Hey, I grew up in the ''Hippy 1960's''. I personally many people who took Psilocibin and other supposed mind enhancing hallucinigenics.

    People danced around and stared at light bulbs, but I never saw anyone evolve into anything except a state of goofyness.

  3. #3
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    That stuff is funny. Hey, I grew up in the ''Hippy 1960's''. I personally many people who took Psilocibin and other supposed mind enhancing hallucinigenics.

    People danced around and stared at light bulbs, but I never saw anyone evolve into anything except a state of goofyness.
    I take it you have heard of Timoth Leary, Dawud?

    He conducted experiments, on himself, on religous volunteers, scientific volunteers, and so on, with some apparently quite interesting results.

    I started a thread about it, a week or so ago.

    Anyway, I am no 'expert' on Islam, however, am I right in saying that in Islam, you are forbidden to take any drugs, or drink?

    Do you adhere to that?

    What about prescription drugs, if you were depressed, would you be permitted, by the law of your religion, to take those sorts of drugs.

    Anyway, back to the theory.

    I don't think the suggestion was that you take some shrooms, and WHOOSH, you physically evolve into something else, certainly not physically, however, at least the way I read it, it suggests that over time, it was the consumption of shrooms, by early man, over time, that gave us thought and mental creativity.

    Dunno mate, I am open to discussion on this one!
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  4. #4
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    No alchohol or illegal drugs are permitted in Islam. But if a doctor perscribes medicine for a sickness than that is permissable.

    Knowing you Steve, your next question would be: what if the Dr. perscribed marijuana?

    Islam is a religion of logic. If a valid medical cure could be proven, it might be permitted. The Islamic schalors would have to make a ruling on this matter.

  5. #5
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    No alchohol or illegal drugs are permitted in Islam. But if a doctor perscribes medicine for a sickness than that is permissable.

    Knowing you Steve, your next question would be: what if the Dr. perscribed marijuana?

    Islam is a religion of logic. If a valid medical cure could be proven, it might be permitted. The Islamic schalors would have to make a ruling on this matter.
    Dawud, many prescribed drugs, one's that doctors claim to treat the illness (in this case, we are talking of depression), have then show to have the opposite effect, there is one in particular called (spelling) SEROXAT, which they have had to take off the market here in the UK, as people suffering from depression were commiting suicide, having taken it????

    Anyway, I assume that you would say that all living things, including plants and fungi were also creations of god, right?

    If he put them there, perhaps he did so for a purpose..?

    Just a thought.
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  6. #6
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Back in the day...I was sitting under a tree deep in the woods, having sampled some of natures finest, a deer walked within touching distance of me, I swear it sensed that I wasn't a treat. If I had been eating meat at the time, and not on a spiritual journey, I could have reached out and gotton me some venison, but I was not interested, maybe the deer could smell the lack of meat in my system? I will never know why it happened, but if it was the deer sensing if the deer sensed my psychodelic thoughts, and percieved no danger, couldn't that work to a hunters advantage? Wow...sorry...flashback... :p

  7. #7
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Dawud, many prescribed drugs, one's that doctors claim to treat the illness (in this case, we are talking of depression), have then show to have the opposite effect, there is one in particular called (spelling) SEROXAT, which they have had to take off the market here in the UK, as people suffering from depression were commiting suicide, having taken it????

    Anyway, I assume that you would say that all living things, including plants and fungi were also creations of god, right?

    If he put them there, perhaps he did so for a purpose..?

    Just a thought.
    Yes, all living things were put here for a purpose. Some for the direct benefit of man, some not. ex. (Mosquitos are a pest to man, but a bounty for birds and bats). All living things are part of the ecology of life.

  8. #8
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    ....we reverted to pre-mushroomed and brutal primate social structures...
    Yes, that is correct. Man discovered booze. Man was, at one time, a very beautiful creature to behold but since booze tampered with the selection process, even ugly people get laid. :eek: We've been a freightful lot, since.

  9. #9
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by phlipper
    Yes, that is correct. Man discovered booze. Man was, at one time, a very beautiful creature to behold but since booze tampered with the selection process, even ugly people get laid. :eek: We've been a freightful lot, since.
    Lol. Too funny :D

  10. #10
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Assuming the Wikipedia article you cut and pasted is accurate, then McKenna didn't understand the difference between genetics and culture and that he subscribed to Lamarck's theory of evolution, which was rejected in the 19th century die to the complete absence of any supporting observations.

    It is not surprising that McKenna's theory is questionable because McKenna was apparently nuttier than a fruitcake.

  11. #11
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    Yes, all living things were put here for a purpose. Some for the direct benefit of man, some not. ex. (Mosquitos are a pest to man, but a bounty for birds and bats). All living things are part of the ecology of life.
    I accept your point about the ecology of life.

    Naturally, there are many things that, if taken by man, would cause death, indeed, there are various types of fungi that are highly toxic.

    However, the genus of magic mushrooms, are not one of them.

    You cannot get addicted to them.

    You cannot die from them.

    You cannot overdose on them.

    Earlier, you stated that under the laws of Islam, to take illegal drugs would be prohibited in Islam.

    Fair enough.

    However, illegal would be illegal in the sense that they are man made laws, and I am thinking that the laws of Islam, they would transcend the mere laws of man.

    Besides, laws vary from nation to nation.

    In many nations, the shrooms that I refer to are not deemed an illegal substance.

    Indeed, if you go back in history, many Shamens, and holy men consumed them, as they felt, that it brought them a heightened sense of awareness and wisdom.

    Dawud, leaving aside man made laws, if you felt that consuming them would augment your relationship with Allah, would you at least consider consumption?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  12. #12
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Let me restate my answer. In Islam you are Prohibited from imbibing any drugs, drink, or anything for the purpose of getting high/stoned/drunk/inebrated/or altering consciousness.

  13. #13
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    Let me restate my answer. In Islam you are Prohibited from imbibing any drugs, drink, or anything for the purpose of getting high/stoned/drunk/inebrated/or altering consciousness.
    Okay, got ya.

    Pretty much what I thought, having spoken to those I know who are Muslim.

    Having said that, not all Muslims stick to those rules.

    Dawud, are you familiar with a condition called Bi-polar?

    For those that suffer from it, it is a terrible and debilatating illness.

    There is no known cure.

    However, it can be controlled, sometimes, through the use of a drug called Lithium.

    Thing is, the medical profession do not actually KNOW how it works, that's when it works.

    What it does do though, is somehow alter the chemical make up of the brain, so that the sufferer experiences less of the high/low episodes.

    I guess you could say that this drug alters their conciousness.

    If you were diagnosed as having Bi Polar, would you be able to take this drug?

    If not, what would you do to treat it?

    Seratonin based drugs, such as Prozac, they alter the chemical pattern of the brain, as well.

    It is hoped that this is for the depressed person's benefit, although sometimes those drugs do not seem to work.

    However, if you were depressed, would you be able to take it?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  14. #14
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Like I said, taking a perscription drug for a medical condition is OK. Taking a drug, perscription or illegal, for recreational purposes in not allowed in Islam.

    One of my adult daughters has to take a mild form of Prozac. When she dosen't take it for a couple of days, me and everyone else can tell the difference in her behavior.

    Some people have bad eye sight and have to wear glasses. Others lack a chemical in the brain and have to take something to regulate their system. Basically it's the same thing. A medical solution and correction.

  15. #15
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    Like I said, taking a perscription drug for a medical condition is OK. Taking a drug, perscription or illegal, for recreational purposes in not allowed in Islam.

    One of my adult daughters has to take a mild form of Prozac. When she dosen't take it for a couple of days, me and everyone else can tell the difference in her behavior.

    Some people have bad eye sight and have to wear glasses. Others lack a chemical in the brain and have to take something to regulate their system. Basically it's the same thing. A medical solution and correction.
    Okay, Dawud, I get you.

    Question.

    In the days before things like Lithium or Prozac were marketed, how would someone that suffered from this condition been helped by Islam, is there anything that the faith of Islam could have done for someone with bi polar?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  16. #16
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    Re: Stoned Age Man Theory

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Okay, Dawud, I get you.

    Question.

    In the days before things like Lithium or Prozac were marketed, how would someone that suffered from this condition been helped by Islam, is there anything that the faith of Islam could have done for someone with bi polar?
    My personal belief is that prayer works. In ancient times peoples faith was stronger and so was their belief in the healing power of prayer. I am not just talking about Islam, but in all belief systems. Drugs don't heal anybody. It's your own immune system that can heal anything. The power of Belief is the strongest medicine.

    Modern man pokes fun at prayer, so consequently, peoples faith level has dropped significantly. But sometimes there are people who are miraculesly cured by faith/prayer and doctors are completely baffled and amazed.

    Did they have people with bi-polar in those days? I don't know. Some maladys that affect us modern humans are a result of stress/environment/diet.

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