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  1. #1
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    Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    For last week’s “Dispatches” program on Britain’s Channel Four, a reporter with a hidden camera entered Birmingham’s Green Lane mosque (which has won praise from Britain’s Muslim peer, Lord Ahmed) and other leading mosques in Britain. He found they preached Islamic supremacism, hatred of Jews and Christians, and the subjugation of women.

    The mosques, of course, are in heavy damage-control mode. A press release at the Green Lane mosque website complains that “it is extremely disappointing but not at all surprising that ‘Dispatches’ has chosen to portray Muslims in the worst possible light. ‘Dispatches’ has opted for sensationalism over substance with total disregard for peaceful community relations.” And not only that: “This so-called ‘undercover’ investigation merely panders to age-old anti-Muslim prejudices by employing the time-honoured tradition of cherry picking statements and presenting them in the most inflammatory manner.”

    The statement doesn’t address the obvious fact that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to cherry-pick statements anywhere near as hateful and inflammatory as those recorded in the Green Lane mosque from proceedings in any Jewish, Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist house of worship.

    Among the statements recorded in the Green Lane mosque were these about women:

    * “Allah has created the woman – even if she gets a Ph.D. – deficient. Her intellect is incomplete, deficient. She may be suffering from hormones that will make her emotional. It takes two witnesses of a woman to equal the one witness of the man.”
    * “By the age of ten, it becomes an obligation on us to force her to wear hijab, and if she doesn’t wear hijab, we hit her.”
    * “Men are in charge of women. Wherever he goes she should follow him, and she shouldn’t be allowed leave the house without his permission.”


    How inflammatory! How extremist! And how inveterately Qur’anic!

    The Muslim holy book declares that a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man: “Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her” (Qur’an 2:282). It also says that men are in charge of women, and that disobedient women should be beaten: “Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them” (4:34).

    The same is true of other statements made in the mosque, including these about Britain and the Islamic state:

    * “You have to live like a state within a state until you take over.”
    * “We want the laws of Islam to be practiced, we want to do away with the man-made laws.”
    * “Muslims shouldn’t be satisfied with living in other than the total Islamic state.”
    * “I encourage all of you to be from amongst them, to begin to cultivate ourselves for the time that is fast approaching where the tables are going to turn and the Muslims are going to be in the position of being uppermost in strength, and when that happens, people won’t get killed – unjustly.”
    * “Allah has decreed this thing, that I am going to be dominant. The dominance of course is a political dominance.”


    Such statements have been vividly expressed in the writings of twentieth century jihad theorists such as the Egyptian Sayyid Qutb and the Pakistani Syed Abul Ala Maududi. Said Qutb:

    It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya [the society of unbelievers] which are current in the world or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system….Islam cannot accept any mixing with Jahiliyyah. Either Islam will remain, or Jahiliyyah; no half-half situation is possible. Command belongs to Allah, or otherwise to Jahiliyyah; Allah’s Shari’a [law] will prevail, or else people’s desires…The foremost duty of Islam is to depose Jahiliyyah from the leadership of man….

    Maududi likewise wrote that non-Muslims have “absolutely no right to seize the reins of power in any part of God’s earth, nor to direct the collective affairs of human beings according to their own misconceived doctrines.” If they do, “the believers would be under an obligation to do their utmost to dislodge them from political power and to make them live in subservience to the Islamic way of life.”

    But Qutb and Maududi did not originate these ideas. They are an extrapolation of Qur’anic passages such as 9:29, which assumes that Muslims will wield state power over Jews and Christians, exacting from them a poll tax (jizya) and making sure that they pay it “with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” There is no concept in the Qur’an, Islamic tradition, or Islamic law of non-Muslims living as equals with Muslims in an Islamic state: Muslims must be in a superior position. The Muslim prophet Muhammad emphasized this when he told his followers:

    Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)

    Of course, there are many ways to understand all these passages and others like them. But the fact that the views expressed by the Muslims in the Channel Four documentary can be found in the Islamic scriptures without much effort suggests that the problem is far larger than a few mosques that were thought to be “moderate” but turn out to be “extremist.” It is a problem that is deeply rooted within traditional Islam, and must be treated as such. Muslims in Britain who sincerely reject the idea that Islam must be dominant and that Islamic law must be instituted in Britain, and that women and non-Muslims must be subjugated, and who accept the idea that non-Muslims and Muslims should live together as equals on an indefinite basis, should not condemn the “Dispatches” documentary. Instead, they should welcome it as a opportunity not only to expel “extremists” from their ranks, and to formulate a comprehensive rejection and refutation of their literalist understanding of the Qur’an and Sunnah.

    But so far they are not doing that. Instead, the Muslim Council of Britain, the Muslim Public Affairs Committee of the United Kingdom, the Federation of Student Islamic Societies, and the UK Islamic Mission have all denounced the program as “Islamophobic.” None have taken even a single step to combat the spread of the understanding of Islam depicted in the show, or to mitigate the elements of Islam that incite to violence and inculcate Islamic supremacism.

    And that itself is very, very telling.

  2. #2
    dchristie's Avatar
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    Re: Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    What would a day be on Scam.Com without a copious serving of some jingoistic Zionist War Mongering Communist BS?

    This little tid-bit of fecal matter was harvested by some deluded Monkey who subscribes to the Zio-Nazi Propaganda Vendimg Machine, Frontpage.org, which is served up by fanatical Zionist Trotskyite and Neo-Con traitor, David (W)Horeowitz.

    Look Folks. Here's the bottom line. Vermin like this simply don't deserve to breath air. It's that simple. Ever wonder why some people become suicide bombers? It's no mystery. It happens when their capacity for abuse becomes a compulsion for revenge which overcomes their desire to live. When I see what these Right-Wing Zionist Vipers are doing to America, I understand how it can happen. It's too bad REAL Americans don't have the balls - yet - to start serving their own tasty dish back to them: Revenge.

    A dish which is best served cold.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________

    WHAT IS THE PRICE FOR YOUR CHILD'S LIFE?

    Michael Rivero

    No, seriously, how much would you charge me to let me kill your kid? I'll make up a whole batch of comfortable lies about it so you can assuage your guilt when your kid comes home in a cheap box with a cheaper flag draped over it, but, c'mon, let's talk money here. How much? .....No?

    Ummm, okay, how much will you charge me to let someone else's kids get killed? Better deal, huh? You don't have to know them, and I'll try to make sure you don't have to see them.

    I know the above sounds absurd, but this deal has indeed been made. In exchange for money, a certain group of people have agreed to let your kids be killed. That group is the United States Congress. And for the last several years, many of them have been accepting money from AIPAC, a supposed lobbying group that stands exposed as a spy operation for a foreign government, in order to promote that foreign government's agenda, which includes war in the Mideast, waged against that foreign government's enemies.

    This selling of America's children to a foreign government to be that government's mercenaries has to rank as the greatest single betrayal of a people by their government in all of history. So, let is take it one step at a time.

    First off, let us follow the money. There is no question that US Congressmen have been accepting money from pro-Israel lobbyists, AIPAC chief among them. This is beyond doubt, as even the Congressional financial disclosure records record the amounts given and accepted.

    There is no doubt that AIPAC exerts control over the US Government. Indeed back in 1992, the then-head of AIPAC, David Steiner, boasted that he had influence over who would be the next Secretary of State, and had already "cut a deal" with Baker for more aid to Israel. When the scandal became public, Steiner was forced to resign.

    Despite this scandal, and despite the fact that the current AIPAC spy investigation has been going on for more than two years, US Representatives and Senators continued to accept money from an organization they knew was under investigation for espionage against the United States.
    Last edited by dchristie; 02-04-2007 at 07:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    dchristie, Tell me something, Was that your best shot? You obviously disagree with his entire post yet you did not even debate a single word of it. Wonder why? Instead same old crap, America this Israel that blah blah blah blah blah. always the same rubbish over and over again. Ya know you would save yourself a little time and effort if you typed just one post and simply cut and paste all over this forum. I know i know according to your brain i'm an American Zionist monkey lol. Who knows maybe next week i'll be a baboon :) But i want you to tell me something, just what country do you live in?...
    Rich99

  4. #4
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    Re: Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    Many Christians claim that their religion has raised women from a state of degradation to a higher level of equality. Nothing could be further from the truth. Throughout its history, the Christian religion has deprived women of their right to be treated as equal human beings. Today, Catholic, Mormon and fundamentalist Christian churches still prevent women from taking an equal place among men in their church hierarchies. These churches also oppose equal rights legislation, the right of women to pursue a career outside the home, and the freedom of choice over their own bodies.

    Why?

    The Biblical Ideal.

    The inferior status endured by women under Judaism and later under Christianity is a logical result of the Bibles sexist attitude towards women. Throughout the Bible there is a clear-cut inequality between men and women. Men are considered more important, more useful, more valuable, and wiser than women. The womans role is to remain silent, obey her husband, and to bear and bring up children. She is to support her husband in all of his decisions. Women are not permitted to have any authority over men. The biblical ideal is always the submissive woman.


    It would be a good idea, Mars3000, to know what the fvck you're talking about and perhaps clean up your own back yard before you go pointing fingers at anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich99
    i'm an American Zionist monkey
    And take your pet with you when you leave.

  5. #5
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    Re: Islamic Prejudice, Islamic Denial

    Hey Username, or whatever your name is, Who was talking about Christian Women?? You disagree with what he says but instead of debating it you slander Christians? Once again just like the guy before you nothing but a big spin right! RIGHT!! Oh and btw, your quote " And Take Your Pet With You When You Leave." Maybe you should be a little more observant Afterall when dchristie repeatly calls anyone and everyone that disagrees with him monkees i gotta believe he's not referring to our pets... What do you think? I wonder why you have no problem at all with his non stop anti American bashing?? Maybe you should consider removing that flag next to your name username or whatever you are???
    Rich99

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