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  1. #1
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    Loss Rates For MLMer's

    http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfile...amway-quixtar/

    Former high level Amway distributor Eric Scheibeler, author of Merchants of Deception, offers this perspective on the Amway “business” and whether it can really be considered a good opportunity:

    Amway Global: Fact, Fiction or Business Opportunity Fraud?
    Perhaps you have seen the television commercials for Amway global promoting that Amway operates in “50 different countries and helps put over 3 million people into business for themselves… we are a company of opportunity.” Do the “Independent Business Owners (IBO’s) actually own an independent “business”?

    They certainly are induced to “invest” in their own business but there are quite a few differences. First, IBO’s have no control over the cost of their own business products, which high level leaders have described in court documents as “hopelessly overpriced”. Second, you could spend a decade investing in “your own business” and building a network of people and if you decide to leave for more lucrative opportunity and bring the organization you developed (your equity) with you, chances are you may be litigated against and find that Amway/Quixtar (and its well funded legal teams) considers your downline line of sponsorship their property.

    You also can have your income literally stopped on a day’s notice while your legal expenses are being driven through the roof. In what truly “Independent Business” can someone else literally shut off your income and claim your “business” after a decade of work and investment?

    The documentation seems to support a nearly 99% loss rate for IBO’s in the US. Documentation also supports that Amway Senior management has known that deceptive practices were being utilized upon its trusting distributor force as far back as the early 1980’s.

    Assistant Wisconsin Attorney General Bruce Craig prosecuted Amway in the early 1980’s and stated “tax returns (obtained for this litigation) of all active Wisconsin Direct Distributors, the company’s top 1%, showed an average net income of minus $900.” I was shocked to learn that it was almost identical tactics that were utilized upon myself and our organization decades later.

    Justice Norris, in the recent MOD initiated and supported UK Government case against Amway reported in 2008 that out of an IBO population of 33,000, “only about 90 made sufficient incomes to cover the costs of actively building their business.” If this is accurate, that seems to be close a 100% loss rate for those investing in the Amway UK “business opportunity”.

    I personally advised senior management of, in my experience, the 99% loss rate for IBO’s when I terminated my distributorship on August 8, 2003. I advised the corporation that I could not accept “blood money” that was generated from new people who were systematically being deceived. The shocking events that followed are detailed in my book “Merchants of Deception”.

    The corporation and its high level motivational recruiters have been plagued with lawsuits and/or arbitrations for decades yet continue to recruit new consumers to “invest in the opportunity”. This is despite full knowledge of losses for almost all participants, similar in some ways to the actions of Bernie Madoff, the infamous Wall Street Swindler. New consumer investors are simply recruited to replace almost all who have lost and drop out, with much of the money being transferred from those at the bottom to those at the top of the pyramid (the corporation and a small percentage of high level distributors).

    The movement of products simply camouflage the transfer of funds from new investors on up.

    Hear audio of Amway executives talking about how wonderful the Amway – Quixtar opportunity is on Eric’s site:

    http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/...MODemail2.html
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  2. #2
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/t...-sinking-ships

    Amway is a multilevel marketing opportunity, to use the euphemism, or a pyramid scheme, to use the terminology of its critics. Individuals sign up as “Independent Business Owners”, or I.B.O.s, to sell an array of Amway products, buying them up front while simultaneously recruiting others to join Amway as well.

    The Federal Trade Commission differentiates between legitimate MLMs and pyramid schemes using a set of criteria that came into being in part because of complaints about Amway going back decades. The most basic requirement is that participants sell a reasonable percentage of the products to outsiders, meaning the company is not subsisting primarily on new backers buying in to pay the old backers.

    When a class-action lawsuit against Amway’s now-defunct North American distribution arm, Quixtar, asserted that products were almost always sold to the next level of distributors, that Amway participants were asked to pay exorbitant up-front costs, that well over 99 percent of Amway participants lost money and that any effort to recoup losses were only possible in an expensive arbitration process, a judge allowed the lawsuit to go forward, calling the Amway contract stipluations “a weapon to harass … and ultimately bankrupt their opponents.” A year later, Amway settled the suit for $155 million.

    Amway’s troubles aren’t over; there’s been renewed focus on MLMs of late, with Herbalife, a company operating using Amway’s business model, declared a pyramid scheme in a European court last year.

    The company revealed that the Securities and Exchange Commission is now investigating it. The Federal Trade Commission recently shut down Fortune High-Tech Marketing, another MLM, in January.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  3. #3
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    So let me get this straight.

    In JokeFool world, a sentence in a newspaper report about allegations in a lawsuit outrank actual independent findings accepted by both sides from the same court case!

    Gee, confirmation bias much?

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


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  4. #4
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    So let me get this straight.

    In JokeFool world, a sentence in a newspaper report about allegations in a lawsuit outrank actual independent findings accepted by both sides from the same court case!

    Gee, confirmation bias much?
    It says Amway settled the case for 155 million. It appears that the judgement against them was valid.

    More than 99% lose money. But I've always known that, most people do.

  5. #5
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    It says Amway settled the case for 155 million. It appears that the judgement against them was valid.

    More than 99% lose money. But I've always known that, most people do.
    IBOFightback is a shameless apologist for Amway. Although he likes to pick on semantics or nitpick certain points in an article, you never see him actually dispel the truth that 99% or more Amway people lose money.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  6. #6
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    It says Amway settled the case for 155 million. It appears that the judgement against them was valid.
    There was no judgement against them.

    Do you take great pleasure in being so ignorant about things you spend so much time arguing about?

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


    Why the f-u-c-k do you need evidence all the time? - Zapticon
    You know that I don't provide proof of my claims - Once Upon A Time
    I have the information but I'm not posting it - Joecool


  7. #7
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    There was no judgement against them.

    Do you take great pleasure in being so ignorant about things you spend so much time arguing about?
    Right, in settling, Amway basically surrendered.

    Do you take pleasure in twisting and lying about everything?
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  8. #8
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    There was no judgement against them.

    Do you take great pleasure in being so ignorant about things you spend so much time arguing about?
    Ignorance is bliss. Why would Amway pay $155 million if they weren't in the wrong?
    Last edited by Richard 3; 03-07-2013 at 12:37 AM.

  9. #9
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    Yawn... is offline I ain't got time for pedantic Ghandi type internet nerds User Rank
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    There was no judgement against them.

    Do you take great pleasure in being so ignorant about things you spend so much time arguing about?
    https://quixtarclass.com/Portals/0/D...alofclaims.pdf

  10. #10
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    Ignorance is bliss. Why would Amway pay $155 million if they weren't in the wrong?
    (1) they didn't pay $155 million, they paid $34 million. Almost half of this is to pay lawyers. Clearly going to trial would cost a lost more
    (2) they avoid the inevitable bad press of a trial
    (3) a class action settlement prevents any future frivolous lawsuits, it clears the decks

    Yup, exactly right - "DISMISSAL OF ALL CLAIMS WITH PREJUDICE"

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


    Why the f-u-c-k do you need evidence all the time? - Zapticon
    You know that I don't provide proof of my claims - Once Upon A Time
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  11. #11
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    (1) they didn't pay $155 million, they paid $34 million. Almost half of this is to pay lawyers. Clearly going to trial would cost a lost more
    (2) they avoid the inevitable bad press of a trial
    (3) a class action settlement prevents any future frivolous lawsuits, it clears the decks



    Yup, exactly right - "DISMISSAL OF ALL CLAIMS WITH PREJUDICE"
    The settlement said 55 million.

  12. #12
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Legal fees....extended focus in the news... with 12 billion in sales how many months of profit is 155 million?

    cut losses, move on....tis business....
    tis MLM....
    Excited about Nopalea Cactus Juice? Learn how to make your own for FREE!
    Don't be another "$50 a bottle" sucker....best of all you know exaclty what's in it. Click HERE.


    Here's a good one....
    "That's why I changed my 'story'".
    Where else can you find this nonsense besides here?

  13. #13
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard 3 View Post
    The settlement said 55 million.
    There's a 34 million cash fund and 21 million in "product credit".

    The latter is calculated using recommended retail price, which is quite obviously significantly higher than Amway's actual costs, which would be somewhere south of 30% of the RRP. In other words, it's little more than petty cash out of the marketing budget.

    New to scam.com? This is what you can expect from MLM critics in support of their claims ....


    Why the f-u-c-k do you need evidence all the time? - Zapticon
    You know that I don't provide proof of my claims - Once Upon A Time
    I have the information but I'm not posting it - Joecool


  14. #14
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    ......

    Yup, exactly right - "DISMISSAL OF ALL CLAIMS WITH PREJUDICE"
    wow...

    A consent judgment is enforceable and is ordered by a trail judge. It is based in part by an agreement between the parties.

    Claims are dismissed if defendant(s) perform to the terms set forth by the judgment.

    Failure of the defendant to satisfy the judgment nullifies the dismissal provisions of claims against the defendant(s).

  15. #15
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Settling out of court is where both parties agree that they are not willing to have the expense and risk of court and come up with a number that will save them from going to trial.... and yes MLM is business....and this is standard in business...
    Seems to be standard for Amway.
    Originally Posted by nomaxim
    Sorry there ''ohein56', but it appears that 'Joecool44' does not have the position that you envision on this topic.

    'Joecool44' has, as a matter of routine, refuted most of your accusations
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Some people have the ability to think critically, some do not. ohein obviously doesn't.

  16. #16
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    Re: Loss Rates For MLMer's

    Quote Originally Posted by IBOFightBack View Post
    (1) they didn't pay $155 million, they paid $34 million. Almost half of this is to pay lawyers. Clearly going to trial would cost a lost more
    (2) they avoid the inevitable bad press of a trial
    (3) a class action settlement prevents any future frivolous lawsuits, it clears the decks
    Yup, exactly right - "DISMISSAL OF ALL CLAIMS WITH PREJUDICE"
    A legitimate company who is as large as amway claims they are, would keep lawyers on retainer on their own behalf. The would mean that a lawsuit they defended themselves against would be at minimal costs.

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