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  1. #1
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    Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Imagination is more important than knowledge, according to Albert Einstein.

    And, in a way, he is right, of course.

    The greatest invention began with but a single thought.

    It is not uncommon for scientists to study the animal kingdom, with a view to applying some of what they find to mankind.

    For example, we have had studied funded on the Mimic Octopus, probably, alas, so that the military can develop clothing that would help them to blend into any terrain. Making them better killers = waste of good science.

    But tackling the problem of world hunger.

    Now that would be using science for positive ends, imo.

    Personally, I feel the world has too many people, and in part, this explains the problems with starvation.

    Others disagree that we are over populated, but that is all moot.

    The point is that people are starving.

    And be you a person of faith or an atheist, the altrusim within you should want that to cease.

    And it could cease very rapidly, if the will of other nations was there.

    Nor does it appear that this mindset will change, any time soon, sadly.

    Could science provide the answer, were politics and prayer have failed?

    Perhaps.

    We have seen the possiblities with biotechnology, but I am going a step further.

    A person eats a meal, few hours later, he is hungry again.

    A day later, and they do not feel so good.

    Several days later, and they will be dead.

    All facts.

    Then we have a creature like a scorpion, which, if it needs to, can go months without needing to eat a single thing, and barely drink.

    Such tremendous biology to survive any environment, perhaps explains how come they have been around so long.

    Yet, what is it within this arachnid that permits it to have such a slow metabolism? And, in theory, could science isolate it, and transpose it into the human gene pool, so that we, in theory would need to produce/distribute less food?

    It is easy to laugh at such a proposal, yet remember, many things that we take for granted today, began as an idea that was also laughed at.

    :)
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  2. #2
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Starvation is but one means of nature to control population sizes in species. Desease and it would seem war are others. Overcomming nature has been a goal of man since the beginning as it has with other species. And so it goes.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  3. #3
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Now-a-days, human beings starve not so much from a lack of food, but from an excess of greed and corruption, which prevents the food from getting to those who most need it. Therefore the practical solution to this problem is socio-political, not genetic.

  4. #4
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    The US did their best to ease the famine in Somalia in 93'. We ended up losing 18 precious US Army Rangers and Delta Force members in Mogadishu that October for our efforts. So much for the appreciation of the worlds only super power in our attempt to make this world a better place to live. Most only seem to remember our bad ideas. Maybe some of the finger pointing countries would like to pick up where we left off. To this day, Somalia has no government and is imersed in civil war between a dozen warlords. They could use a good cop.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  5. #5
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    The poor you have always... which means the associated troubles (disease, malnutrition, starvation, etc...). From a social/political standpoint there is no cure... never will be.

    You mentioned a genetic? cure... similar to how a scorpion can go without food for extended periods. Interesting premise, but given our basic make-up... warm-blooded mammals... we have to maintain a consistant body temp or we die... hence we require a steady stream of food/fuel. Just based on my layman's knowledge of biology... I don't think your suggestion is possible.

  6. #6
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by FrogSkins
    Now-a-days, human beings starve not so much from a lack of food, but from an excess of greed and corruption, which prevents the food from getting to those who most need it. Therefore the practical solution to this problem is socio-political, not genetic.
    The practiccal solution is market economics. Make feeding the hungry profitable in a free market society and there will be no starvation.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  7. #7
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Dear Enlightened:

    What you propose is truly frightening, all the more so because of the very real possibility that such things will soon be (or are already) reality! What I fear, as the old hit song "Godzilla" puts it, is how history will show how nature pointed out the folly of man.
    A great deal of human society is organized around food. The real difficulties of supplying all people with sufficient food is so complex that it nearly defies the imagination to suggest workable solutions. We are compelled to find them, despite the difficulty. I offer some suggestions below;

    > Become vegetarian. A great deal of the products of farming are used to feed "meat animals". It is highly wasteful of food and water, not to mention the bad karma that goes with factory slaughterhouses.
    > Redistribute land ownership. Corporate farms/landholders do not seek anything other than profit. Seed diversity, protection of biodiversity, maximum restoration of soil etc... do not fit well with the corporate personality which by design must seek maximum profit from minimum investment.
    > Subsidize purchasing healthier less processed food for poor people. This would not only help to improve their overall health, but provide larger markets for the small organic farmers who at this point have only the wealthier people as a market base.
    > Pray for an end to war & genocide. People in war-torn, impoverished countries see extreme mortality rates for all age groups and are inclined to have as many children as possible to ensure heritage. Such people also have little inclination to listen to problems affecting the whole world. Their own survival is of such immediate concern that until the stress of ensuring that survival is considerably reduced there can be little hope of making an impact regarding volumtary reduction in progeny. And on it goes...
    Last edited by oldovation; 01-21-2007 at 06:56 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by oldovation
    A great deal of human society is organized around food. The real difficulties of supplying all people with sufficient food is so complex that it nearly defies the imagination to suggest workable solutions.
    Not so complex that corporations that can distribute cell phones throughout the world as effectively as they have they could figure out how to do it with food too. All they would need is an incentive to do so. Read profits. Very few problems in this world cannot be solved with a free market society.

    > Become vegetarian. A great deal of the products of farming are used to feed "meat animals". It is highly wasteful of food and water, not to mention the bad karma that goes with factory slaughterhouses.
    But I like meat. Besides, the physiological make up of humans requires the amino acids found in meats regardless of what vegetarians claim. And more food is wasted by farmers pouring milk into the ground or plowing under crops to keep prices to a level that they can realize a profit than is "wasted" as you say feeding livestock. Our own government pays farmers to destroy crops. There is pleanty of food in the world to feed everybody several times over. It's not quantity. It's distribution that is the problem. Just not profitable to get it to those that need it. When it is, they will get it.

    > Redistribute land ownership. Corporate farms/landholders do not seek anything other than profit. Seed diversity, protection of biodiversity, maximum restoration of soil etc... do not fit well with the corporate personality which by design must seek maximum profit from minimum investment.
    What country do you live in? Clearly not America. Because here we have ourselves this little peice of paper called the constitution and it don't sit well when one starts talking about redistributing ownership of anything much less land. This paper has another paper attached to it called the bill of rights and one of them is the fifth amendment which says ya just can't do what you suggest.

    > Subsidize purchasing healthier less processed food for poor people. This would not only help to improve their overall health, but provide larger markets for the small organic farmers who at this point have only the wealthier people as a market base.
    Who pays for all of this? Just how much do you want to pay in taxes? Government fails time and time again when they try to regulate markets. Nixon tried with price countrols in the early seventies and he nearly destroyed the economy.

    > Pray for an end to war & genocide. People in war-torn, impoverished countries see extreme mortality rates for all age groups and are inclined to have as many children as possible to ensure heritage. Such people also have little inclination to listen to problems affecting the whole world. Their own survival is of such immediate concern that until the stress of ensuring that survival is considerably reduced there can be little hope of making an impact regarding volumtary reduction in progeny. And on it goes...
    You pray. I'm going to keep searching for workable solutions.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  9. #9
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    You seek a solution via the creator of the problem. It is profit that has created the horrible conditions that so many thousands of people live in, even in our own very wealthy nation. It is the manipulation of the supposedly "free market" by corporations, directly and through influence of policy makers, that has driven so many family farmers out of business, in order to gain control of the world's most precious resources (America's farmland and water). The free market is brutal and inhuman, as its only capacity for placing value is monetary. There is a great deal more to being human than aquiring financial wealth. There are other kinds of wealth than financial.

  10. 01-21-2007, 08:11 AM


  11. #10
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by oldovation
    You seek a solution via the creator of the problem. It is profit that has created the horrible conditions that so many thousands of people live in, even in our own very wealthy nation.
    It is the potential for profit that can be derived from from a free market society that has put more families in their own homes, created sub five percent unemployment, increased the health and lifespans of american citizens and overall has made america a country where anyone with the will to do so can become whatever he choses.

    It is the manipulation of the supposedly "free market" by corporations, directly and through influence of policy makers, that has driven so many family farmers out of business, in order to gain control of the world's most precious resources (America's farmland and water).
    It was the ineffeciency and non productivity of small family farms that has driven them out of business.

    The free market is brutal and inhuman, as its only capacity for placing value is monetary.
    No. It places value on delivering the best products at the cheapest price to consumers rich and poor. Without the pressures of competetion in a free market the average family would not be able to fly accross country for a visit to Disneyworld. Before the airlines were freed from government regulation in 1978 only the wealthy and businessmen could afford to fly. Now you can drive from LA to New York cheaper than you can drive. If you want the poor to pay more for all goods, let the government get involved.

    There is a great deal more to being human than aquiring financial wealth. There are other kinds of wealth than financial.
    Of course. That's probably why I am not wealthy. I'm certainly smart enough to be. :D
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  12. #11
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by oldovation
    Dear Enlightened:

    What you propose is truly frightening, all the more so because of the very real possibility that such things will soon be (or are already) reality! What I fear, as the old hit song "Godzilla" puts it, is how history will show how nature pointed out the folly of man. ..

    Don't be afraid.

    People only fear what they do not understand, let history be your guide with that one!

    Think of any medical or scientific advance in the past 100 years that is now seen as beneficial, and you will have seen those rise up against the idea, through good old fashioned fear.

    And, since you mention a fictional charachter like Godzilla, films have a lot to do with it.

    In how many films is the scientist portrayed as some madcap, wild haired loony, that 'wants to take over the world'... :rolleyes:

    The irony is this.

    While that portrayal is inaccurate, there are people right now, who want to take over the world.

    And they are not men of science, they are men who embrace supernatural gods. Some wear suits. Bush is a good example.

    It's also like how eugenics has become a dirty word.

    Yet, the ethos behind the science is neither good nor bad, it is all with what intent it is applied.

    I left out the economic arguement, mainly because I feel that the idea of Capitalism being the saviour of starvation has clearly failed, otherwise it would have achieved it by now!

    If only solving world hunger could be made profitable....???

    But the two are a contradiction in terms.

    The whole basis of capitalism relies that for every filthy rich individual, there must be 1000, 10,000, etc, who are the precise opposite.

    But that debate is for another thread.

    Is it so wrong for science to investigate the suggestion that I put forward..?

    Was it so wrong for science to perfect the transfusion of blood and organs?

    Was it so wrong for science to give children to those that could not have them, with IVF, and so on?

    I say NO.

    What about you...?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  13. #12
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Was it so wrong for science to perfect the transfusion of blood and organs?

    Was it so wrong for science to give children to those that could not have them, with IVF, and so on?
    Not at all wrong. Just never would have happened without a financial incentive to do so. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  14. #13
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    "It (the free market) places value on delivering the best products at the cheapest price to consumers rich and poor."

    But it places greater value on producing these products at the lowest possible cost, for the greatest possible profit, which requires "creative banking" (e.g., tax evasion) and third world slave labor to achieve.
    Last edited by FrogSkins; 01-21-2007 at 01:16 PM.
    Scientists animated by the purpose of proving that Nature is purposeless constitute an interesting subject for study. - Alfred N. Whitehead

  15. #14
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by FrogSkins
    "It (the free market) places value on delivering the best products at the cheapest price to consumers rich and poor."

    But it places greater value on producing these products at the lowest possible cost, for the greatest possible profit, which requires "creative banking" (e.g., tax evasion) and third world slave labor to achieve.
    I simply don't know how to comment on these remarks. Let's just agree to dissagree.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  16. #15
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Anybody know what Nigerians and Yoko Ono have in common?


    No? Nobody?


    They both live off dead beetles.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  17. #16
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    Re: Searching For Starvation 'Cure'

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Anybody know what Nigerians and Yoko Ono have in common?


    No? Nobody?


    They both live off dead beetles.

    You are a very sick man, but hey, it was quite a funny joke!
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

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