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Thread: 2nd Amendment

  1. #1
    ShiningGlory Guest

    2nd Amendment

    2ND AMENDMENT
    « Thread Started on Jan 9, 2007, 6:08pm » [Quote] [Modify] [Delete]
    SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS

    Comments by Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI and TTT newsletters
    (You can view ETI & TTT newsletters on www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net.)

    ((Ed. Note: The following quotes were taken from a December 2005 letter written by Aaron Zelman (Founder & director of the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)):

    “We [i.e., the JPFO] recently released the Congressional Research Service (CRS) report that verified what we suspected all along: that the BATFE [i.e., the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives] has no standardized procedures for determining if a firearm is legal.”

    ((Ed. Comment to the preceding quote: Let us never forget what the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states: “The Right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed.” Let us also never forget that tyrants and totalitarian Police States love disarmed peasants!))

    “When we’re afraid to make a purchase at a gun show, own an interesting collection of firearms, or effectively protect our own home and family, then we’ve already lost most of the right to keep and bear arms, no matter what the law says.

    Notice the key word: ‘afraid’. Simple ‘fear’ of being investigated or prosecuted is enough to deter honest citizens from having, owning, using, or even taking an interest in firearms. And the BATFE has always relied on our fear.

    How can you have a right to firearms ownership and possession if you are afraid of government action against you for owning or possessing firearms?

    When a federal ‘law enforcement’ agency investigates and prosecutes honest citizens for trumped up or exaggerated violations, then that agency generates ‘fear’ in the population. And let me tell you, being afraid of a federal investigation, indictment, or prosecution does not make you a wimp. You can’t get yourself out of a federal prosecution for less than $5000 in legal fees, even if you are totally innocent. More likely, you’ll spend $25,000 to $75,000 in fees if you go to trial.

    After a federal indictment, you can’t get your life back, even if charges are later dropped. The worry, the anxiety, the loss of job opportunities and promotions, marriage and family breakups…these are the direct results of federal prosecutions of gun owners. Imagine how destructive a felony conviction is…and how awful it is…when it arises from some paperwork error in a firearms registration or sales form. Imagine the numb horror of having to plea bargain to a federal felony because of abusive investigation…when you did nothing truly wrong.

    BATFE uses intimidation tactics to scare people away from gun ownership and use. By doing so, BATFE destroys our right to keep and bear arms.”

    ((Ed. Comment to the preceding quote: These “intimidation tactics” on the part of the BATFE (formerly known as the ATF and BATF) have been planned and orchestrated for decades.))

    JPFO is open for membership to both Jews and non-Jews. Please check out their web site at www.jpfo.org – they have a lot of great “information tools” on freedom and firearms ownership – especially the “Gran’pa Jack” booklets and their great new documentary film (on VHS or DVD) entitled “Innocents Betrayed." For information, please call 1-262-673-9745.

  2. #2
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    Always amuses me when someone wants to make the second amendment read in a fashion that supports his/her position on gun control. They never fail to use the same old trick. Exclusionary editing. Edit out the phrase that several courts, including the supreme court, cite that the founding fathers included and for what purpose did they intend.

    “The Right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed.” seems so straight forward doesn't it. But watch the magic while I make the WHOLE second amendment appear before your very eys. Abra cadabra

    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    And voila. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the sucurity of a free state,"
    Doesn't quite read the same does it. The courts have said time and time again. This oft omitted phrase gives the states a right to form a national guard and to arm the people in it. It does not give an individual the right to bear arms. If you think I'm wrong, sling an assalt rifle over your shoulder and walk onto a school yard in California and see what happens. You'll be needing the fifth and sixth amendments then. But of course you'll be able to appeal all the way to the supreme court. Though, they might refuse to hear your case. Tell me. Do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya.
    Last edited by bogie; 01-16-2007 at 06:23 AM.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  3. #3
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Always amuses me when someone wants to make the second amendment read in a fashion that supports his/her position on gun control. They never fail to use the same old trick. Exclusionary editing. Edit out the phrase that several courts, including the supreme court, cite that the founding fathers included and for what purpose did they intend.

    “The Right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed.” seems so straight forward doesn't it. But watch the magic while I make the WHOLE second amendment appear before your very eys. Abra cadabra

    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    And voila. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the sucurity of a free state,"
    Doesn't quite read the same does it. The courts have said time and time again. This oft omitted phrase gives the states a right to form a national guard and to arm the people in it. It does not give an individual the right to bear arms. If you think I'm wrong, sling an assalt rifle over your shoulder and walk onto a school yard in California and see what happens. You'll be needing the fifth and sixth amendments then. But of course you'll be able to appeal all the way to the supreme court. Though, they might refuse to hear your case. Tell me. Do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya.
    having a well armed militia isn't much help when those guns take orders frmo the government. I think it is the right to have a well formed militia and a right for the people to bear arms. If you have both it is a check and balance, which is what the government was created on. So if the military has guns and the people have guns, its a deterent from using the military to create a totilitarian state...

  4. #4
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Always amuses me when someone wants to make the second amendment read in a fashion that supports his/her position on gun control. They never fail to use the same old trick. Exclusionary editing. Edit out the phrase that several courts, including the supreme court, cite that the founding fathers included and for what purpose did they intend.

    “The Right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed.” seems so straight forward doesn't it. But watch the magic while I make the WHOLE second amendment appear before your very eys. Abra cadabra

    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    And voila. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the sucurity of a free state,"
    Doesn't quite read the same does it. The courts have said time and time again. This oft omitted phrase gives the states a right to form a national guard and to arm the people in it. It does not give an individual the right to bear arms. If you think I'm wrong, sling an assalt rifle over your shoulder and walk onto a school yard in California and see what happens. You'll be needing the fifth and sixth amendments then. But of course you'll be able to appeal all the way to the supreme court. Though, they might refuse to hear your case. Tell me. Do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya.


    HAHAHAHAH, still, it is our right. They can try to twist it into anything they want, if they try to take our guns, all hell will break loose.
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got"

    National Taxes, National Borders!!

    NO AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS!

  5. #5
    pawnstar Guest

    Re: 2nd Amendment

    it is still the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms.
    read it carefully
    THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE



    Quote Originally Posted by bogie
    Always amuses me when someone wants to make the second amendment read in a fashion that supports his/her position on gun control. They never fail to use the same old trick. Exclusionary editing. Edit out the phrase that several courts, including the supreme court, cite that the founding fathers included and for what purpose did they intend.

    “The Right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed.” seems so straight forward doesn't it. But watch the magic while I make the WHOLE second amendment appear before your very eys. Abra cadabra

    Amendment II

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


    And voila. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the sucurity of a free state,"
    Doesn't quite read the same does it. The courts have said time and time again. This oft omitted phrase gives the states a right to form a national guard and to arm the people in it. It does not give an individual the right to bear arms. If you think I'm wrong, sling an assalt rifle over your shoulder and walk onto a school yard in California and see what happens. You'll be needing the fifth and sixth amendments then. But of course you'll be able to appeal all the way to the supreme court. Though, they might refuse to hear your case. Tell me. Do you feel lucky punk. Well do ya.

  6. #6
    ShiningGlory Guest

    Re: 2nd Amendment

    PERSECUTION OF PATRIOT DISTURBING

    Feds Target 60-Year-Old Militiaman For Stance on Second Amendment

    rss202

    By Ralph Forbes

    Why is the government afraid of a retired, overweight, elderly man with respiratory problems?

    At the bond hearing for Hollis Wayne Fincher, known as “the gentlegiant,” the federal court conceded it was at heart a free speech case—but from the government’s standpoint Fincher had uttered “scary” free speech, so his bond was set at $250,000, equal to the deed to his 120-acre homestead, which has been in his family for three generations.

    Fincher has been accused by the federal government of possessing three illegal machine guns. However, many believe the case has more to do with Fincher’s writings and beliefs than it does any firearms he owned.

    Yes, it is a First Amendment case, the inalienable rights to freedom of speech, assembly and petition. But it is equally a Second Amendment case, securing the God-given right of self-defense, which protects every American from having his or her right to keep and bear arms from being infringed by the government.

    In the spirit of America’s patriots of 1776, in 1994 Fincher and others founded the Arkansas Militia, realizing that the fundamental right to protect all other rights is the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

    Recognizing that the best security of a free people lies in the people, not the government, Fincher wrote The Silver Bullet, a treatise showing that infringements upon this basic right stem from the poison tree of unconstitutional perversions of law.

    The Arkansas Militia then sent copies of this nearly 300- page elucidation to Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) and a host of other officials, including county sheriffs, to educate them on the law of the land.

    No one said it wasn’t correct.

    On March 18, 2006, The Morning News of Northwest Arkansas published an Anti-Defamation League (ADL) approved story on Fincher, The Silver Bullet, and other patriots.

    Mark Pitcavage, a Columbus, Ohio-based “fact-finder” for the ADL, an unregistered agent of Israel, said the ADL “monitors” Americans that it deems “potentially dangerous,” especially if they have “extreme views” and/or are “heavily armed.”

    The ADL was particularly concerned about the Washington County Militia, Fincher and The Silver Bullet. So eight months later, on Wednesday, Nov. 8, 2006, federal agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATF) and FBI, aided and abetted by Arkansas State Police, the Arkansas State Bomb Squad, the sheriffs of Washington and Madison counties and the police departments of Fayetteville and Springdale, raided Fincher’s home and arrested the 60-year-old man.

    The raid was committed under color of the federal “gun violence prevention program,” the so-called Project Safe Neighborhoods.

    Fincher’s bond hearing was held in the Ft. Smith, Ark., federal courthouse, under a gold-fringed flag and with a swearing-in that failed to include “so help me God.”

    ATF Senior Special Agent Wade Vittitow testified that Fincher’s arrest was the result of the Morning News article, which the government submitted as Exhibit #1. He also testified that he “could not follow the logic” of the “dangerous” Silver Bullet.

    Vittitow admitted Fincher had no criminal background, had never exhibited violent behavior, had lived on the family homestead all his life, and had family members close within the area. Nevertheless, the feds maintained the gentle giant was “a flight risk.”

    Fincher did not trust the feds with the deed to his homestead, so he remains in jail “happily preaching Jesus” and the Constitution to his fellow prisoners. In the meanwhile the feds continue to catch and release illegal aliens.

    The government doesn’t fear the gentle giant or his guns; they fear the power of his ideas for restoring our constitutional republic.

    You can obtain a copy of his Silver Bullet by downloading it at arkansasmilitia.com.

    (Issue #4, January 22, 2007)

  7. #7
    ShiningGlory Guest

    Re: 2nd Amendment

    2nd amendment protectors
    THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

  8. #8
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by pawnstar
    it is still the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms.
    read it carefully
    THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE
    Read it dozens of times very carefully but what you or I read doesn't count. This power to interpret the constitution and the law is only given to the supreme court and federal district courts and the other various courts. Show me the word individual in this one sentence amendment. The courts have ruled on countless occasions that the founding fathers entended this amendment to only allow the states to form a militia (national guard it came to be known as) and equip those people within such a militia. Numerous challenges to laws such as those restricting ownership of assault rifles have failed with the court stating the militia entent as a basis for it's decision. Not my interpretation, maybe not your's. But only the judicial branch was given that power so that's the way it is. Remember, this is all one sentence. Read this phrase first:

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,


    This is what the courts have decided that the founding fathers wrote this amendment for. It's sole purpose. Now add the remaining phrase:

    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    And there you have it. The state has the right to ARM the people in the militia, or national guard. That's been the ruling over and over again. They didn't ask me if it was ok and they're not about to ask you. But that's is why gun control laws have always been found to be constitutional.
    Last edited by bogie; 01-16-2007 at 11:14 PM.
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

  9. #9
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    having a well armed militia isn't much help when those guns take orders frmo the government. I think it is the right to have a well formed militia and a right for the people to bear arms. If you have both it is a check and balance, which is what the government was created on. So if the military has guns and the people have guns, its a deterent from using the military to create a totilitarian state...
    Exactly the intent of the amendment, the reason for the way it was stated. The militia in those days was every able bodied citizen, and without them there never would have been a victory against the monarchy. Government tries to interpret it that they are the militia, but the people, the citizens themselves are the militia. Same way the government tries to tell the people what they will do, when it is the people who are the ones responsible for telling the government what and when to do it!

  10. #10
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    Re: 2nd Amendment

    This whole issue is about to be revisited in late spring or early summer. An NRA backed challege to a California firearms law is being appealed to the supreme court after losing on appeal in the 9th district court of appeals. Should be interesting since the appointment of Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Sam Alito, themselves staunch conservatives appointed by Bush who, as everybody knows, loves his guns. Nevertheless, most who follow the court believe that this appeal will be tossed. Roberts and Alito, though conservatives are staunch constructionists meaning that they support the founding father's intent. And there is also the concept of "Stare Decises", or the need to follow precedent of previous rulings. But we'll know by labor day won't we?
    The terminally stupid and certifiably insane.

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