+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 5 of 5

  1. #1
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. User Rank
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.

    Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.
    (psssst...CNANCE)

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula

    Creationist distortions of science
    November 26, 2012 at 8:33 am
    PZ Myers

    Answers in Genesis, that awful creationist organization, has a couple of tactics that they use to argue that they’re doing Real Science and the real scientists aren’t.

    They set up a dichotomy: you have to choose between God’s word and Man’s reason. God’s word is obviously perfect (because they say it is), while Man’s reason is flawed and prone to error. Therefore, all true accounts of the history of the world will take into account the “primary evidence” found in the Bible. This is a theme throughout their museum: they present two views, one derived from the book of Genesis and the other from scientific research, and tell you you have to choose. I imagine it works for the usual yokels whose brains short-circuit at the idea of questioning God, but for me, it just confirmed that the Bible is bullshit — I choose reason and evidence every time.

    They claim that all science involves interpreting the data, and that they use the exact same data that all scientists use — they just interpret it through the lens of a biblical worldview, while secular scientists interpret it through the lens of an evil, fallen, Satanic worldview. So which do you choose? Of course, they’re lying: the creationists throw away 99% of the evidence — everything that contradicts their predetermined conclusion — and the only bits of scientific observation they actually use are those where there is some ambiguity or potential for willful misinterpretation.

    They claim that there are two kinds of science: observational and historical science. The only respectable kind of science, they say, is observational: where an eyewitness is present to actually see the results. Anything where you try to interpret past events is not subject to repeatable observations, therefore it can’t be determined, and should be rejected in favor of eyewitness accounts — especially God’s eyewitness account from the Bible.

    Every one of those arguments is complete crap. But they do love to state them with definite authority, as if these are actual fixed laws of the universe that must be accounted for in any science, rather than post hoc rationalizations by charlatans trying desperately to put a false front of reason over their superstitions.

    I want to address their third argument, though, because Ken Ham has been throwing it around lately.

    Ham quotes Jerry Coyne dismissing the value of theologians in determining scientific truths (as Ham usually does, though, he declines to actually link to the article he’s supposedly rebutting — at least he does Coyne the courtesy of naming him, I’m usually just referred to as some “atheist professor from Minnesota”). And there it is, in flaming great display, the creationists’ peculiar understanding of how science works.

    Coyne’s comment raises a couple of issues that are common with secularists, and I thought it would be good to address them. First, he confuses observational (or operational) science and historical (or origins) science. By claiming that only scientists can determine the origin of the universe, he is implying that it can be discovered through repeatable, testable methods—but it cannot.
    No, Coyne isn’t confused at all. Scientists are fully aware of the difference between studying, for instance, changing allele frequencies in a population of fruit flies right now, and using historical evidence to infer changes in allele frequencies (actually, phenotypes) in extinct populations. What we deny, though, is that we can’t study those through repeatable, testable methods. Every lagerstätte is a sample of the species of an ancient world, and paleontologists are constantly making hypotheses, testing them against existing data, and seeking out new data to confirm or disprove their ideas. Physicists can aim their instruments at a series of stars and test their ideas about their makeup and history. These creationist kooks want to pretend that in the absence of scientific tools to study the past, they are therefore free to make up any story they want, and it’s just as valid as one founded on hard-earned evidence.

    But if they reject the idea that we can know anything about the past by observing the present, what’s the alternative? Ken Ham continues:

    Historical science is really just the process of trying to figure out what really happened in the past based on evidence existing in the present—or based on primary source of information. And you know, the best place to start is with an eyewitness account, or our assumptions may lead us in the wrong direction. Coyne’s assumptions are evolutionary, and he clearly does not see Genesis—the only record of an eyewitness account of our origin—as authoritative.
    Right. The only stuff that counts is eyewitness accounts. “Were you there?” is their mantra, and it reflects a terribly naive understanding of science.

    First of all, eyewitness accounts are the worst kind of evidence. What real scientists prefer is measurement or the collection of recorded data via known, well-calibrated instruments. I assure you, the scientists at the LHC aren’t putting on goggles and standing at a window looking at protons colliding — they’re storing many terabytes of measurements via sensitive instruments from every event. Even in my admittedly mushier work where I do use my eyes directly to watch developmental events, everything is recorded and stashed on a hard drive so I can later extract precise timings and measure intensities of probes.

    Secondly, everything, not just the historical sciences, are inferential. All of our senses are flawed and impose biases on our observations — you may think seeing is believing, but ask any psychologist, and they’ll tell you that your brain is very easily tricked, and that any memory you might have of an event is largely a reconstruction. Ask any physiologist, and they’ll explain to you that your eyes are not cameras, but elaborate processing devices that filter visual information and pass it back to a cortex that further deconstructs and reassembles the patterns of light that fell on the retina into a model of the world around us. We repeat observations using multiple modes precisely because you can’t trust what your eyes tell you to be an accurate model of the external world.

    Thirdly, and most obviously, why should we believe Genesis is an eyewitness account of our origin? Were you there, Ken Ham, when God wrote the book? What reason do you have for believing that a god wrote it, rather than teams of Jewish scribes…scribes who weren’t witnesses of the creation? You can bet Coyne doesn’t see the Bible as an authoritative account, nor do I; those of us who have studied the history of the Bible know that it was the product of humans, that it evolved over time as additions and revisions were made, that we can look at the text and see evidence of multiple authors in multiple eras, that its translations differ, that it contradicts itself in many places, and that the accumulated weight of objective evidence demonstrates that it was not poofed into existence by a supernatural being, but has a much more prosaic and earthy origin.

    But, oh yeah, I forgot: Ken Ham rejects all historical sciences, even history itself, by claiming that they cannot determine anything. This is a belief he needs to hold in order to cling to his fatuous idea that the Bible was written directly by a myth wiggling the hands of the prophets.

    I just wish he’d be consistent and admit that he believes the Bible is true in every word because he has faith, rather than trying to abuse science and redefine it to accommodate his preconceptions. He just lacks that much faith.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    132

    Re: Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.

    What I'd like to see is an article about how scientists distort creation!

    See what I did there? The switcheroo? Heheh...

    YOPJ

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    26,313

    Re: Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.

    the biggest complaint i have is how when discussing evolutionary tendencies,public science documentaries and shows always refer to the creature in question as having elected to change, as if IT was somehow personally in control!? like saying a bee DEVELOPED a better wing?! rather than saying the form of a bee changed according to environmental pressures!? while here i though it was ACTUALLY a TOTAL accident as in a beneficial genetic MUTATION over millions of yrs!? why they SUBTLEY lie to the public is beyond me!? other than they think most people have not the COLD scientific mind and want that PERSONAL aspect to keep them interested!? : ::judges:
    Last edited by lexx; 12-11-2012 at 06:28 PM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,424

    Re: Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.
    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post

    Good article on how Creationists distort the nature of science when they want to dismiss it.

    Jerry Coyne just wrote a piece today highlighting how creationists distort science and misrepresent/lie about science when they want it to agree with them.
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-marshall-mcluhan-moment-with-creationist-paul-nelson/


    As PZ myres pointed out creationists rarely link article that they are talking about. They do this for a variety of reasons.
    1. so there followers don't find out that they mis-represented the article and its contents.

    2. So there followers don't read other "objectionable" material or open a discussion outside the creationists comment free safety zone.

    3. So that there are no track backs prompting the person to write a response.


    It's this utter hypocrisy, mis-representation and out right lying that leaves me with so little respect for the creationists view point. Admittedly many are innocent dups but after about the 3rd argument where they refuse to correct themselves it changes from innocent to bigot.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    26,313

    Re: Great Article discussing the how Creationist distort Science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post

    Good article on how Creationists distort the nature of science when they want to dismiss it.

    Jerry Coyne just wrote a piece today highlighting how creationists distort science and misrepresent/lie about science when they want it to agree with them.
    http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/a-marshall-mcluhan-moment-with-creationist-paul-nelson/


    As PZ myres pointed out creationists rarely link article that they are talking about. They do this for a variety of reasons.
    1. so there followers don't find out that they mis-represented the article and its contents.

    2. So there followers don't read other "objectionable" material or open a discussion outside the creationists comment free safety zone.

    3. So that there are no track backs prompting the person to write a response.


    It's this utter hypocrisy, mis-representation and out right lying that leaves me with so little respect for the creationists view point. Admittedly many are innocent dups but after about the 3rd argument where they refuse to correct themselves it changes from innocent to bigot.
    the fact that loyalty as a means of a sure money supply is the best way to guarantee an easy life, lying has become the NORM!? while in the highest offices of examination it is quickly spotted, whether science or religion?! is there such a thing as pure science or pure religion anymore!? where is it to be found!? : :crazy1: :judges: :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

Similar Threads

  1. Great Article On MLM
    By Joecool44 in forum MLM Scams
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 03-17-2015, 01:30 PM
  2. Great article:
    By DoubleP in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-16-2010, 08:27 AM
  3. Great short article !!
    By California Surfin in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-06-2008, 04:50 AM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-31-2007, 02:53 AM
  5. Great article on YTB...
    By mj363 in forum MLM Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-30-2007, 09:59 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •