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  1. #1
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    Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Everyone, especially atheist, are looking for evidence for God. Well, there's the Bible. Isn't that evidence? No, say atheist. It is a bunch of myths or it was written and rewritten so many times that we don't really know what happened.

    Isn't that a cop out?

    Why do we find so much agreement among Bible prophets about the Lord, heaven, and even angels. Did one man make it all up and then his descendents, for several hundred years, simple copy those accounts?

    As example, did Abraham make up stories about a God, and then his descendents, having liar genes, repeat and elaborate on those stories?

    Did all those Bible stories come from myths (Creeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, etc.) to become Bible stories? Wow, Jews deserve credit for such masterful adaptations.

    In a court of law, two witnesses are usually required for a valid testimony. In the Bible, there are many eyewitnesses. So why shouldn't we consider their testimony?
    Last edited by Cnance; 11-26-2012 at 07:55 PM.

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Why do we find so much agreement among Bible prophets about the Lord, heaven, and even angels. Did one man make it all up and then his descendents, for several hundred years, simple copy those accounts?
    Cnance on post #1 on the thread "Eyewitness Evidence for God.


    I have said repeatedly that the Bible is a book about God written by men. Therefore, it is not entirely accurate.
    Cnance on the thread "Do atheists hate the Idea of God?" post # 118.

    http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=118

    Cnance, would you please explain to me what you mean by these apparently conflicting statements, in order to have a clear discussion of the topic?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Cnance on post #1 on the thread "Eyewitness Evidence for God.


    Cnance on the thread "Do atheists hate the Idea of God?" post # 118.

    http://www.scam.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=118

    Cnance, would you please explain to me what you mean by these apparently conflicting statements, in order to have a clear discussion of the topic?
    Here is that posting,

    I have said repeatedly that the Bible is a book about God written by men. Therefore, it is not entirely accurate. For me, I had a dream about the Old Testament in which a voice said, "it happened but not that way." In the final analysis, the Bible is the only record we have of God's intervention in human history. That's the closest I can come to the truth. I have my dreams, although few in number, to put pieces of the puzzle together. On scam.com, dominated by atheist, there is absolutely no agreement for anything I post about God or the Bible. It would be the same on a religious website because my ideas don't conform to Christians theology. Actually, because of sad commentary about humans in my postings, there is no redeeming value to what I post. I do it as a hobby more than anything else. If you do an audit of my postings you'll find complete consistence. I am not a liar. I post what I know about God. As you say, my own theory isn't supported by the Bible. I've discovered that no one agrees with me. However, that only means that God has cleverly hidden his plans. You may conclude as Lord jab that I am insane. Now, don't conclude that therefore I believe I'm a privileged person. I believe I am condemned to death like everyone else. What I've discovered however is incredible truths about God, the universe, and life. I'll leave it there. It is the Christmas season and I'm celebrating with my wonderful wife and friends. I only discuss these ideas with those how disagree on scam.com. It's in my nature. I enjoy debating. however, as I said, I don't lie.

    I think what you are referring to is my comment about my dream where a voice said "it happened but not that way." I interpret that to mean Bible authors didn't record what really happened. Truth was influenced by human bias and culture. You're correct in pointing out this discrepancy. However, what remains? Even if there are inaccuracies, it is our only record of God's intervention in human affairs.

    Since that dream I've struggled to figure out what, "it happened, but not that way" means. The best I can do is to study the Bible with a critical eye.

    I admit to being selective in my interpretations. Mostly, I find prophets testimony about God to be relatively consistent, and I've had dreams about particular parts of the Bible. However, that has always caused conflict on scam.com, so it's probable best not to bring it up.

    Even though the witnesses may be confused, it's our only record. If we could only cross examine each witness, we may have an accurate account.

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Since that dream I've struggled to figure out what, "it happened, but not that way" means. The best I can do is to study the Bible with a critical eye.
    So Cnance, this begs the question, Why are you so certain that anything in the bible really took place?

    Because you had a dream in which this line "It happened, but not that way" appeared, doesn't make this contact from "god," or his "angels."

    In reality, it can only mean that you have dreams that give credence to your emotional beliefs.

    Breaking this question down, have you ever thought to carefully, without any attachment whatsoever, examine the other side, that is, that everything you believe about the Christian bible is only driven by your emotional dreams?

    IOW, have you ever taken into consideration that everything in the bible pertaining to the "godliness" of the supernatural accounts given in it are totally false, and nothing more than hyperbole?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    So Cnance, this begs the question, Why are you so certain that anything in the bible really took place?

    Because you had a dream in which this line "It happened, but not that way" appeared, doesn't make this contact from "god," or his "angels."

    In reality, it can only mean that you have dreams that give credence to your emotional beliefs.

    Breaking this question down, have you ever thought to carefully, without any attachment whatsoever, examine the other side, that is, that everything you believe about the Christian bible is only driven by your emotional dreams?

    IOW, have you ever taken into consideration that everything in the bible pertaining to the "godliness" of the supernatural accounts given in it are totally false, and nothing more than hyperbole?
    There is to much circumstantial evidence for the Bible not to be from God. It staggers the imagination to think it was a gigantic conspiracy by a few men from a poor Semitic tribe. Based on law of probability, it's not likely that for generations they would have a consistent story line. I think you should be more objective and examine the argument.

    As for my dreams, they are real. I am not by nature a very emotional person. In my work life, I had jobs requiring emotional detachment. You keep returning to this argument, as if there is no other possibility. There are a large number of intelligent people who know there's truth in the Bible. The problem is we live in a time where everyone has learned to doubt things that don't conform to science.

    The Bible makes sense. If God were to communicated with humans, why wouldn't it be through a select group of people?

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    There is to much circumstantial evidence for the Bible not to be from God. It staggers the imagination to think it was a gigantic conspiracy by a few men from a poor Semitic tribe. Based on law of probability, it's not likely that for generations they would have a consistent story line. I think you should be more objective and examine the argument.

    As for my dreams, they are real. I am not by nature a very emotional person. In my work life, I had jobs requiring emotional detachment. You keep returning to this argument, as if there is no other possibility. There are a large number of intelligent people who know there's truth in the Bible. The problem is we live in a time where everyone has learned to doubt things that don't conform to science.

    The Bible makes sense. If God were to communicated with humans, why wouldn't it be through a select group of people?
    So, is everything you have ever dreamt about real? They have all come true?

    Second, why would he choose to communicate with just a few...knowing all the trouble it would cause? Why not communicate with everyone when it would remove the question?

    Your "logic" is anything but.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    There is to much circumstantial evidence for the Bible not to be from God.
    "Evidence," like that fact that no supernatural actions by this god, or any other source, have ever been found and verified as being authentic?

    "Evidence," like the fact that the bible's accounts of these fantasies are so outrageous, and some of them have even been left out, or created out of "whole cloth," because they were "not needed," or simply a personal "invention" by the ruling religious leaders in antiquity?

    "Evidence," like the fact that the accounts given in this book aren't even relevant to each other, in that they are very contradictory, both between themselves, and to reality?

    Couldn't a real, genuine "god" at least include some semblance of accuracy and connectivity between events given in it?

    Apparently, this god revels in confusion, and in creating adversity between us all, his "children," and reason.

    The Bible makes sense.


    In a way, so does J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord Of The Rings," But I'm betting that it isn't based on factual accounts.
    Last edited by GHOST DOG; 11-25-2012 at 12:51 PM.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  8. #8
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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    "Evidence," like that fact that no supernatural actions by this god, or any other source, have ever been found and verified as being authentic?
    Very clever way of avoiding my argument. If you go back and read my posting, circumstantial evidence refers to the story line of the Bible. I won't repeat my argument. You will reread it, won't you? Otherwise, I am not adverse in repeating it!

    "Evidence," like the fact that the bible's accounts of these fantasies are so outrageous, and some of them have even been left out, or created out of "whole cloth," because they were "not needed," or simply a personal "invention" by the ruling religious leaders in antiquity?
    Again, you are avoiding the argument. It's obvious you're extremely prejudice about the Bible. Apparently, we cannot have a rational discussion.

    "
    Evidence," like the fact that the accounts given in this book aren't even relevant to each other, in that they are very contradictory, both between themselves, and to reality?
    What are you talking about? Again your prejudice is getting in the way.

    Couldn't a real, genuine "god" at least include some semblance of accuracy and connectivity between events given in it?
    Be specific, what do you mean?

    I think you have the same problem as LY and all the other atheist on scam.com. You refuse to read the Bible. LY and others may say they have read it, but when I refer to specific verses, they go bananas, They can't stand to touch the Bible.

    Apparently, this god revels in confusion, and in creating adversity between us all, his "children," and reason.
    What does that mean/

    Why don't you just say it, you hate
    God, the Bible and anything associated with religion.


    In a way, so does J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord Of The Rings," But I'm betting that it isn't based on factual accounts.
    What has that to do with our discussion? It reminds of that old scene in highly religious movies where the "holy" person raises the cross and everyone goes crazy.

    Obviously, we cannot have an rational discussion about the Bible.

  9. #9
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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Very clever way of avoiding my argument. If you go back and read my posting, circumstantial evidence refers to the story line of the Bible. I won't repeat my argument. You will reread it, won't you? Otherwise, I am not adverse in repeating it!
    I am not avoiding anything, Cnance. If there was circumstantial evidence, why isn't it apparent by simple, verifiable proof, instead of trying to get folks to believe that the biblical text states truthfully that the laws of physics didn't apply at the time, because of a god?

    IOW, an impossible storyline given in the Christian bible does not rate as circumstantial evidence for a god.

    You won't repeat your argument on this subject, because you know that I will question it again with this same answer, attacking the lack of viability of your supernatural "circumstantial evidence" premise.

    "Evidence," like the fact that the bible's accounts of these fantasies are so outrageous, and some of them have even been left out, or created out of "whole cloth," because they were "not needed," or simply a personal "invention" by the ruling religious leaders in antiquity?
    Again, you are avoiding the argument. It's obvious you're extremely prejudice about the Bible.
    And you are denying that past religious officials have changed the biblical texts to their satisfaction?

    Is this one of your clever ways of deflecting a good answer, in order to preserve your position?

    Evidence," like the fact that the accounts given in this book aren't even relevant to each other, in that they are very contradictory, both between themselves, and to reality?
    What are you talking about? Again your prejudice is getting in the way.
    http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

    Well, Cnance, I am prejudiced against misinformation and stupidity.

    Just posting the facts, man......tell me how walking on water, or parting a sea doesn't violate the laws of physics.

    Be specific, what do you mean?

    I think you have the same problem as LY and all the other atheist on scam.com. You refuse to read the Bible.
    I mean that the Christian bible is full of contradictions and misinformation.

    IMHO, you simply choose to overlook them, to your great joy, but it is a great disservice to your own personal advancement.

    And...I've read the bible a great many times. I simply refuse to read-in any "connectivity," or apologetic links between obvious contradictions contained in it.

    Apparently, this god revels in confusion, and in creating adversity between us all, his "children," and reason.
    What does that mean/

    Why don't you just say it, you hate
    God, the Bible and anything associated with religion
    By the way that the bible is so dislocated and obviously obtuse to factual occurrences, if there is this god, he must revel in seeing his children live confused over his contradictory biblical appendixes.

    There is no god to "hate," Cnance.
    Only misinformation and stupidity.

    On the last post, you wrote:
    The Bible makes sense.
    I wrote on the last post:
    In a way, so does J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord Of The Rings," But I'm betting that it isn't based on factual accounts.
    What has that to do with our discussion? It reminds of that old scene in highly religious movies where the "holy" person raises the cross and everyone goes crazy.
    My lines mean that Tolkien's great book, like the bible makes sense, but only to a point, as in "up is up" and "down is down."

    But, it only describes a storyline, much like the bible.
    Incredible, unrealistic, but the story makes sense, when you leave out the supernatural accounts.

    Obviously, we cannot have an rational discussion about the Bible.
    Is this your way of declining to debate, because your premise's "weak seams" are showing?
    Or is it because you feel that rationale on this subject is not in your favor?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  10. #10
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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    I think you have the same problem as LY and all the other atheist on scam.com. You refuse to read the Bible. LY and others may say they have read it, but when I refer to specific verses, they go bananas, They can't stand to touch the Bible.

    You must have either have reading comprehension problem or be completely dishonest. Which is it?

    As I have stated many time, I have read your book of fables....many times. I even have it in my footer.

    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy."
    I guess only you actually understand the bible. Using the bible as proof of god is circular reasoning.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote:
    The Bible makes sense.


    In a way, so does J.R.R. Tolkien's "The Lord Of The Rings," But I'm betting that it isn't based on factual accounts.
    LOTR makes more sense than believing in something, anything, with no proof whatsoever. I'll believe it when someone shows me PROOF that there is a God.

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    So Cnance, this begs the question, Why are you so certain that anything in the bible really took place?

    Because you had a dream in which this line "It happened, but not that way" appeared, doesn't make this contact from "god," or his "angels."

    In reality, it can only mean that you have dreams that give credence to your emotional beliefs.

    Breaking this question down, have you ever thought to carefully, without any attachment whatsoever, examine the other side, that is, that everything you believe about the Christian bible is only driven by your emotional dreams?

    IOW, have you ever taken into consideration that everything in the bible pertaining to the "godliness" of the supernatural accounts given in it are totally false, and nothing more than hyperbole?
    I agree writting fiction, movies, television programs rely on you using your imagination. Quentin Tarantino the director relies on you using your imagination to become infatuated with the story. Without that imagination fiction writers and movie makers would not have any following. Same thing with the Bible or Koran. Both are spectaculars filled with hair raising accounts and very imaginative stories. Take the movie Fargo. It was sold as a true story everyone believed it. However if you look it up the Coen brothers fooled everyone. It's a great movie however it never really happened. That shows you how gullible everyone was just because they had the preface "based on a true story". Everyone believed it. Well if "God" says it's true it must be. Everything else is left to the imagination. Once again I wonder why people stubbornly cling to the poverty and worthlessness like its some kind of cause. That "God" is somehow for the ignorant lackey who takes up the cause of other ignorant lackey's. The bible contridicts itself a million times. Its readjusted through further explanation.

    The Holy Ghost was blaspheme for anyone that dared. Yet whamo blamo every church on earth suddenly changed it from being the Holy Ghost to the Holy Spirt. The Holy Ghost is gone now lol. Jesus is the way to prosperity just send your 10% in. Finance people love Jesus because well you need loans to build church's. I don't blame the intelligent. I blame the people that get lost in imaginations all because they are told "God says it"

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Ace View Post
    LOTR makes more sense than believing in something, anything, with no proof whatsoever. I'll believe it when someone shows me PROOF that there is a God.
    it's funny cause we can relate ANY special PROBLEM to any COMMON problem because in PRINCIPLE it's the SAME!? salesmanship!? so far the right salesman has not called at your door!? or it's a PRODUCT you are NOT inherently interested in!? you dont NEED it, your fine!? have you ever had an unexpected disaster, small or large and said to yourself DAMM!? i shoulda done what i was gonna do before and this might not have happened, or at least i woulda been READY for it!? if you survive get over it, you now have a REASON to prepare for the next time/worst as they say!? and well, if it was ONLY/actually THAT simple, we'd all be prepared 1 would think!? but of course, it is sorta a PARADOX when it comes to preparin for EVERYTHING!? CANT BE DONE in the NORMAL SENSE!? faith, could be described as the FREEDOM from ALL PREPARATIONS/PREVENTIONS!? :errr:::chicken::smurf:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorkin61 View Post
    I agree writting fiction, movies, television programs rely on you using your imagination. Quentin Tarantino the director relies on you using your imagination to become infatuated with the story. Without that imagination fiction writers and movie makers would not have any following. Same thing with the Bible or Koran. Both are spectaculars filled with hair raising accounts and very imaginative stories. Take the movie Fargo. It was sold as a true story everyone believed it. However if you look it up the Coen brothers fooled everyone. It's a great movie however it never really happened. That shows you how gullible everyone was just because they had the preface "based on a true story". Everyone believed it. Well if "God" says it's true it must be. Everything else is left to the imagination. Once again I wonder why people stubbornly cling to the poverty and worthlessness like its some kind of cause. That "God" is somehow for the ignorant lackey who takes up the cause of other ignorant lackey's. The bible contradicts itself a million times. Its readjusted through further explanation.

    The Holy Ghost was blaspheme for anyone that dared. Yet whamo blamo every church on earth suddenly changed it from being the Holy Ghost to the Holy Spirt. The Holy Ghost is gone now lol. Jesus is the way to prosperity just send your 10% in. Finance people love Jesus because well you need loans to build church's. I don't blame the intelligent. I blame the people that get lost in imaginations all because they are told "God says it"
    it's NOT like science has ANY IDEA what a DREAM is or HOW it is made or WHY!? if you examine how the scientific community approaches the public they in many ways talk like POLITICIANS!? likewise when pressured for more information, make adjustments and speculations!? i mean sure science is great for the material stuff but as far as the MIND of man they are either CLUELESS or just not SAYIN, cause in REALITY, they themselves find it ..................SPOOKY!? it's sorta the DEFAULT reaction when you DONT have an ANSWER!? ::crazy1::chicken::smurf:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Be careful...................HE is watching you!





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    Re: Eyewitness Evidence for God

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Be careful...................HE is watching you!




    interesting POINT!? the WATCHER!? Buddhism says the WATCHER is to be ELIMINATED!? strange situation, a watcher must be created to get rid of another watcher...........where does it end!? so WHAT does YOUR watcher have to say about that!? is it HARMFUL or HARMLESS!? to HELL with the BOTH of them!? it's only 3000 miles to GRACELAND!? :errr: :chicken: : :elvis:
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

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