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  1. #1
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
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    Climate change: How do we know?



    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
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    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Are you referring to the graph or the claimed evidence on the website page?
    For the graph - Temperature and CO2 do not fit together what so ever, unless you examine the roughly 800 year gap correlation.

    For NASA... Which topic would you like to be proven wrong?
    huh, amazing stuff

  3. #3
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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Yeah, good luck. Denial speaks more to stupidity than to skepticism.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    Yeah, good luck. Denial speaks more to stupidity than to skepticism.
    How about ignorance?

    Temperature and CO2 do not fit together what so ever
    Please explain...
    Last edited by bibleman; 11-25-2012 at 07:23 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    How about ignorance?
    Someone having a strong opinion on something that they are largely ignorant about is stupidity.

    Being unsure, looking for more information asking questions is skepticism.

    Please explain...
    Conspiracy theory is referring to the fact that Co2 general rises after a temperature rise in historic natural conditions.
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-...termediate.htm

    What he does not remember is that Co2 is stored in natural sources such as the Ice Caps, Trees, and many other natural. It's absorption and release rate are directly affected by the global temperature. (melting ice caps release Co2) The increase in Co2 than continues to help the temperature rise up. Every single occurrence has been tracked back to it's root cause in this historical incidents. The temperature change also took several thousand years to occur. Instead of 4 decades like now.

    So for instance the earth goes through natural cycles every 20,000 years or so that cause the earth to heat up or cool down based on our orbit and rotational tilt. This causes more forest fires, ice caps melting and the ocean to off gas more thus raising Co2.

    However, the fault with CT explination comes in the fact the we are currently in the 20,000 year cooling cycle. The earth should be getting cooler at a very small rate (un noticeable)

    The past 10 years (hottest decade on record) has also occurred during a solar minimum. In short all the natural forces say we should be cooling but we are instead getting warmer a massive rate.

    Also I should point out that climate should never looked like a 2D problem. There are many factors that affect climate and all of them need to be looked at together and not separatly.


    Also thank you bibleman for taking the time to ask questions. I don't know if your mind will change but I hope you'll see that there is significant reason for people to think the way they do.
    Last edited by Spector567; 11-26-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    I'm all for asking questions.

    Am currently experiencing a massive "opinion shift" concerning a LOT of things I just took for granted over the last few years (mainly right wing propaganda).

    Numbered among those "things" (ideas) was to just accept that global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the left/liberals to further their agenda of energy resourcing, price hikes, taxes, etc...

    Never really looked at the data before, other than articles here and there arguing for or against it.

    Questions.

    Why, if global warming is most definitely happening right before our eyes, don't more people take it seriously? Or have I been living inside the conservative bubble so long that I haven't realized most people do?

  7. #7
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    For a quick education of the Global Warming controversy...go to YouTube and watch one of Potholer54 video's. He is a scientific reporter and has document many of the claims.

    Here is the beginning video of the series:

    http://youtu.be/52KLGqDSAjo

    Its good stuff.
    Last edited by LogicallyYours; 11-28-2012 at 10:21 AM.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Hmm....not a good embed.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Questions.

    Why, if global warming is most definitely happening right before our eyes, don't more people take it seriously? Or have I been living inside the conservative bubble so long that I haven't realized most people do?
    I think many people do take it seriously. However, seriously as compared to what. Most American’s accept climate change and believe that something should be done about it. However, most people are also more concerned with feeding there family, compared to something that will have major consequences 10 years from now. Even if we stopped using Co2 Today it will 50 years before things are back to normal and even than they may never get back to normal due to feedback affects (tipping point)

    Combine that with a degree of confusion and you have a recipe for apathy.

    Combine that with silly cold war propaganda, a partisan political system, well-funded and placed opposition (oil) and below average science standards and you have outright denial.

    The link that logically posted is really imformative. Portholler54 was a science writter for some major news papers. He goes through and debunks several claims, using fully cited sources. You might be surprised at the level of scumbaggery goes on. For instance most of the scientists interviewed and used as sources for the "great global warming swindle" movie have written open letters of complaint pointing out how the Director purposly, edited, misquoted, and re-worked there interviews to mis-represent what they actually said or the conclusions they drew.
    Last edited by Spector567; 11-28-2012 at 11:16 AM.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Worse case scenario, left unchecked, what is the consequences more than likely going to look like 20 years from now?

  11. #11
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I think many people do take it seriously. However, seriously as compared to what. Most Americanís accept climate change and believe that something should be done about it. However, most people are also more concerned with feeding there family, compared to something that will have major consequences 10 years from now. Even if we stopped using Co2 Today it will 50 years before things are back to normal and even than they may never get back to normal due to feedback affects (tipping point)

    Combine that with a degree of confusion and you have a recipe for apathy.

    Combine that with silly cold war propaganda, a partisan political system, well-funded and placed opposition (oil) and below average science standards and you have outright denial.

    The link that logically posted is really imformative. Portholler54 was a science writter for some major news papers. He goes through and debunks several claims, using fully cited sources. You might be surprised at the level of scumbaggery goes on. For instance most of the scientists interviewed and used as sources for the "great global warming swindle" movie have written open letters of complaint pointing out how the Director purposly, edited, misquoted, and re-worked there interviews to mis-represent what they actually said or the conclusions they drew.
    What's great about Potholer54 is, he completely backs up his claims by showing the actual quotes or data...or how they are taken out of context.

    His entire series is just about the best on YouTube.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    What's great about Potholer54 is, he completely backs up his claims by showing the actual quotes or data...or how they are taken out of context.

    His entire series is just about the best on YouTube.


    I watched one of his vids about evolution featuring comparisons in terminology with Kent Hovind. Compelling stuff!

  13. #13
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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    I watched one of his vids about evolution featuring comparisons in terminology with Kent Hovind. Compelling stuff!
    He completely dismantles Hovind. Of course, that why Hovind runs away when he is challenged to a written debate.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicallyYours View Post
    He completely dismantles Hovind. Of course, that why Hovind runs away when he is challenged to a written debate.
    In the video I watched, he actually took Hovind's words and showed that Hovind has changed his position by subtle shifts toward evolution over time. Though Hovind uses different terms, he is saying the same thing that science says, while continuing to argue against it. :spin2:

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Those are older arguments in those videos.

    Kent Hovind is just over half way through his 10 year prison sentence at present.

    The charges can be viewed at;
    wikisource.org/wiki/United States of America v Kent Hovind and Jo Hovind;
    Outcome

    On November 2, 2006, Hovind and his wife, Jo, were found guilty by a jury on all counts. On January 19, 2007, Kent was sentenced to 10 years in prison, three years of probation after his sentence is served, and $640,000 in restitution. He had been previously ordered to forfeit $430,400 and faced a maximum of 288 years in prison.
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

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    Re: Climate change: How do we know?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomaxim View Post
    Those are older arguments in those videos.

    Kent Hovind is just over half way through his 10 year prison sentence at present.

    The charges can be viewed at;
    wikisource.org/wiki/United States of America v Kent Hovind and Jo Hovind;


    I remember all that. Wonder what he'll be doing when he gets out.

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