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  1. #1
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    Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    I don't get these tree huggers and those that try to regulate animal life like reducing the introduction of new species into other ecosystems from human activity. In Florida the Burnese Python was introduced and is now a aggressive predator species eating or trying to eat alligators (one tried and got split apart from the meal stupid snake). Now they want to try and regulate them and other species. Add to that the other problems everyone blames on our species the deforestation, loss of animal species and the like. Excuse me to point out one fact: HUMANS are the dominant species on the planet right now.
    1. Anything we do is by its nature part of the natural process as the dominant species WE determine the fundamentals of our planet.
    2. A species other than humans must adapt TO OUR PRESENCE or DIE OUT that is a fundamental law of nature.
    3. Humans by our natural activities such as travel, collecting species and moving them or by choice or accident releasing them into new environments is natural.
    4. We have no obligation as a species to do any more than meet our own interests now for our health protecting fundamental resources air, food, water and raw material sources is sensible it doesn't obligate us to think of lesser species. Save where that affects one of these.
    5. Here is a Christian arguement on this since God gave us DOMINION over the Earth and curses the Earth to effectively harm humans and by that act nature any harm done is the Will of God. We are meant to DOMINATE the Earth and that doesn't mean softly but with force as the divine creation. We are above all other life- period.


    So what do they not get we are the dominant force in this world until we are removed and we might be from another species, our own hand or God smiting us into dust but until then we are the dominant species. Animals and plants must learn to live with us or cease that is the fact. Where is our obligation to put them above our need save is certain circumstances like protecting fish for us to eat or not polluting the ater because it hurts US and so happens doing so protects animals living in a river system. I say we have none. Its good to do so but not above our right as the dominant species to our due.

  2. #2
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    I don't get these tree huggers and those that try to regulate animal life like reducing the introduction of new species into other ecosystems from human activity. In Florida the Burnese Python was introduced and is now a aggressive predator species eating or trying to eat alligators (one tried and got split apart from the meal stupid snake). Now they want to try and regulate them and other species. Add to that the other problems everyone blames on our species the deforestation, loss of animal species and the like. Excuse me to point out one fact: HUMANS are the dominant species on the planet right now.
    1. Anything we do is by its nature part of the natural process as the dominant species WE determine the fundamentals of our planet.
    2. A species other than humans must adapt TO OUR PRESENCE or DIE OUT that is a fundamental law of nature.
    3. Humans by our natural activities such as travel, collecting species and moving them or by choice or accident releasing them into new environments is natural.
    4. We have no obligation as a species to do any more than meet our own interests now for our health protecting fundamental resources air, food, water and raw material sources is sensible it doesn't obligate us to think of lesser species. Save where that affects one of these.
    5. Here is a Christian arguement on this since God gave us DOMINION over the Earth and curses the Earth to effectively harm humans and by that act nature any harm done is the Will of God. We are meant to DOMINATE the Earth and that doesn't mean softly but with force as the divine creation. We are above all other life- period.


    So what do they not get we are the dominant force in this world until we are removed and we might be from another species, our own hand or God smiting us into dust but until then we are the dominant species. Animals and plants must learn to live with us or cease that is the fact. Where is our obligation to put them above our need save is certain circumstances like protecting fish for us to eat or not polluting the ater because it hurts US and so happens doing so protects animals living in a river system. I say we have none. Its good to do so but not above our right as the dominant species to our due.
    I would consider insects to be the dominant grouping of species. They've way outlasted almost everything else. It is not a fact that animals must learn to live with us or cease to exist. They often cease without our help, the dynasaurs for example, man had nothing to do with that. Some have indeed become extinct becaus of humans but many prosper even when we do our best to annialate them. Again those pesky insects. :D

  3. #3
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Yes but humans are clearly the most important single species now on the planet that makes us the species that must be kneeled before not the cockroach. As much as I like insects myself they are very interesting especially spiders.

    Like the problem of NON-NATIVE INVASIVE SPECIES like the Burnese Python in the Florida Everglades. They are not invasive humans brought them to Florida as pets, some got out and created a new population group its perfectly natural this happened. Alligators and all just have to figure the really long thngs are dangerous and adapt. Did we not introduce horses to the continent as a species hundreds of years ago and that formed the unique species the Mustang in the West a hardy horse. Its just as likely this species could someday be a Florida Python if left alone.

    Migration and transplanting of population this way is just as natural as animals that were trapped on islands in the South Pacific that Darwin studies some flew in, some came on driftwood perhaps its no different one species moving a lesser species.

  4. #4
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    Yes but humans are clearly the most important single species now on the planet that makes us the species that must be kneeled before not the cockroach. As much as I like insects myself they are very interesting especially spiders.

    .

    We don't dissagree that humans have a tremendous effect on the environment and other living species but I don't agree that we are clearly the most important single species. We could become extinct tomorrow and the planet will survive just fine. Or we could be here indefinatly which will mean that we figured things out well enough as we went along. It's only been the past couple hundred years that we've really begun to damage the planet to any significant degree. And only in the last 50 or so years have we been working to find answers to reverse the process. We'll figure it out in time. If not, we need a better rocket ship. :D

  5. #5
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    Yes but humans are clearly the most important single species now on the planet that makes us the species that must be kneeled before not the cockroach. As much as I like insects myself they are very interesting especially spiders.
    Spiders are not insects. This thread is interesting but I obviously define importance differently to you. There are many bacteria which if cease to exist could possibly wipe out a great proportion of species on Earth. We are very dependant on other species, whereas there are many independant species. I therefore consider the independant species more important. It's almost an analogous situation to the foundations of a house.

  6. #6
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    I don't get these tree huggers and those that try to regulate animal life like reducing the introduction of new species into other ecosystems from human activity. In Florida the Burnese Python was introduced and is now a aggressive predator species eating or trying to eat alligators (one tried and got split apart from the meal stupid snake). Now they want to try and regulate them and other species. Add to that the other problems everyone blames on our species the deforestation, loss of animal species and the like. Excuse me to point out one fact: HUMANS are the dominant species on the planet right now.
    1. Anything we do is by its nature part of the natural process as the dominant species WE determine the fundamentals of our planet.
    2. A species other than humans must adapt TO OUR PRESENCE or DIE OUT that is a fundamental law of nature.
    3. Humans by our natural activities such as travel, collecting species and moving them or by choice or accident releasing them into new environments is natural.
    4. We have no obligation as a species to do any more than meet our own interests now for our health protecting fundamental resources air, food, water and raw material sources is sensible it doesn't obligate us to think of lesser species. Save where that affects one of these.
    5. Here is a Christian arguement on this since God gave us DOMINION over the Earth and curses the Earth to effectively harm humans and by that act nature any harm done is the Will of God. We are meant to DOMINATE the Earth and that doesn't mean softly but with force as the divine creation. We are above all other life- period.


    So what do they not get we are the dominant force in this world until we are removed and we might be from another species, our own hand or God smiting us into dust but until then we are the dominant species. Animals and plants must learn to live with us or cease that is the fact. Where is our obligation to put them above our need save is certain circumstances like protecting fish for us to eat or not polluting the ater because it hurts US and so happens doing so protects animals living in a river system. I say we have none. Its good to do so but not above our right as the dominant species to our due.

    OMG! :eek:

    I hope that you do not actually believe this, and it is here to prompt debate.

    Your entire arguement can be blown away in just a few words, and here they are, all gift wrapped, and just for you.

    Humans?

    Dominant species?

    No obligation to any other life forms?

    Here is a fact for you to search.

    How long would humans live were all the bugs on the planet to die off?

    You will be surprised by the answer to that.

    Now, how long would ALL the other species live if we were to die off?

    Well, they would go on and on, prosper better than they do now.

    So, it is they who hold all the aces, not the other way around.

  7. #7
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    I also don't agree that humans are the most dominant species. We may be the most aggressive and careless, but without our technology we would soon see the illusion of dominance lifted :)
    But aside from that, as Cam said, we are so hugely dependant on other species for survival.

    I think you are taking evolutionary literalism and drawing moral conclusions from that. It has been done before by people like Hitler, it can seem like it's right, but the truth is we are only as responsible as we make ourselves.
    We could go around killing everything, nothing would stop us, so yeah we are dominant in terms of bullying rights, but we also have intelligence and the capacity for self-evaluation.

    I agree with you that some "tree-huggers" take it too far, I don't particularly care if a species dies or not, but if it is endangered due to human involvement I think we should stop interfering.

    I have a question for you, rubyslippers:
    Do you think the thoughtlessness and inherent lack of morality of other species gives us an excuse to ignore our own thoughts and moral judgement?

  8. #8
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    What moral judgement the fact is we are right now the dominant planetary species and endowed by that by God. He gave us domionion over the planet, He cursed it after the Fall and any destruction we do is part of the judgement on this world part of our punishment is the gradual destruction of the planet. Our only obligation is to try to preserve fundamental resources WE need such as clean drinking water or food. If we can do that and protect animals and plants that is fine. But should we go out of our way to allter our activities if it deprives us of things we want- not at all if the former goal is met. At best we can slow the decay I fully expect a correction in our population in the future one way or another.

    And lets be simple here we are the dominant species we mold our planet to our will, built our civilization upon it and with our superior technology were proven at this time to be superior to all other life. And no I don't agree with wanton destruction of animals when there is no purpose harvesting sharks JUST FOR THE FINS is a silly and wasteful practice. But if we harvest fish we eat that is our right. Conserving this source of food by quotas and the like is meeting a vital interest and protecting a resource- food. But why not get oil from Alaska in the now protected areas that is getting something OUR NATION needs oil. That takes precedent over the rights of some dumb souless animals. We should do such mining of oil in the most effecient and exploitive manner. Same with strip mining coal I see nothing wrong with that if its the cheapest and fastes way to get TO the coal. Correcting any damage is not required but nice to do if its not overly difficult.

  9. #9
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    What moral judgement the fact is we are right now the dominant planetary species and endowed by that by God. He gave us domionion over the planet.
    Another Bible basher, using his little book of fables, to justify anything.

    When do you lot die out?

    :rolleyes:

  10. #10
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    What moral judgement the fact is we are right now the dominant planetary species and endowed by that by God. He gave us domionion over the planet, He cursed it after the Fall and any destruction we do is part of the judgement on this world part of our punishment is the gradual destruction of the planet. Our only obligation is to try to preserve fundamental resources WE need such as clean drinking water or food. If we can do that and protect animals and plants that is fine. But should we go out of our way to allter our activities if it deprives us of things we want- not at all if the former goal is met. At best we can slow the decay I fully expect a correction in our population in the future one way or another.

    And lets be simple here we are the dominant species we mold our planet to our will, built our civilization upon it and with our superior technology were proven at this time to be superior to all other life. And no I don't agree with wanton destruction of animals when there is no purpose harvesting sharks JUST FOR THE FINS is a silly and wasteful practice. But if we harvest fish we eat that is our right. Conserving this source of food by quotas and the like is meeting a vital interest and protecting a resource- food. But why not get oil from Alaska in the now protected areas that is getting something OUR NATION needs oil. That takes precedent over the rights of some dumb souless animals. We should do such mining of oil in the most effecient and exploitive manner. Same with strip mining coal I see nothing wrong with that if its the cheapest and fastes way to get TO the coal. Correcting any damage is not required but nice to do if its not overly difficult.
    Wow. Uh. Count me out of this debate haha I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

    ...Wow

  11. #11
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    How long do you suppose it would take Mr. Dominant Species rubyslippers to "subdue the earth" were he to be left out in the wilderness with no food or water and no access to technology?

  12. #12
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by FrogSkins
    How long do you suppose it would take Mr. Dominant Species rubyslippers to "subdue the earth" were he to be left out in the wilderness with no food or water and no access to technology?
    Let's set our watches, film it, and put the results on You Tube....
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  13. #13
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Bail out, bail out, bail out!!! I'm hittin' the silk too.

  14. #14
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    I'm going to bail out!

    With respect to the author, his post is so scientifically flawed, I would not know where to begin.....

    :eek:
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  15. #15
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    Our only obligation is to try to preserve fundamental resources WE need such as clean drinking water
    Since when was clean water a fundamental resource? It's water purification centers that make it clean, and we would have a very hard time getting rid of water on this planet, so we're stuck with water no matter what we do I'm afraid.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    or food.
    There's always food, too. In case you haven't noticed, your country isn't struggling to eat. It's struggling not to eat (re: the diet boom)

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    And lets be simple here we are the dominant species we mold our planet to our will, built our civilization upon it and with our superior technology were proven at this time to be superior to all other life.
    I don't know where you get this word superior from. At what?
    At population we are far from superior. At overall mass we are far from superior. At overall time on the planet we are far from superior. We can't breathe underwater like fish can, we can't detect sonar like bats can, we can't detect electricity from metres away like some sharks can, we can't see very far like some birds can, let alone fly or swim very fast at all, we don't have much strength in comparison to a horse or most of the primate family, we can't utilize photosynthesis to grow (we can try but we get melanoma).
    There are countless things other animals and plants and insects are better than us at, so to me this whole superior thing doesn't fly.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    That takes precedent over the rights of some dumb souless animals.
    And here it is. The lack of souls or afterlife rewards has been used to justify many things including human genocide. Well there guys don't believe in our god so they're not going to Heaven anyway, so their lives are less important.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    We should do such mining of oil in the most effecient and exploitive manner. Same with strip mining coal I see nothing wrong with that if its the cheapest and fastes way to get TO the coal. Correcting any damage is not required but nice to do if its not overly difficult.
    I agree with some conclusions you're drawing, albeit in tamed-down forms, but your methods of reasoning are so flawed it's worrying.

  16. #16
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    Re: Humans: Environmentalists Don't Get It

    Quote Originally Posted by SubJunk
    Since when was clean water a fundamental resource? It's water purification centers that make it clean, and we would have a very hard time getting rid of water on this planet, so we're stuck with water no matter what we do I'm afraid.


    .
    I get a kick out of my wife sometimes. The other day we stopped for gas and she went inside and bought a 12 oz bottle of water. A buck twenty five. That calculates to $13.33 per gallon of water. We only paid $2.39/gal for the gas. You can imagine what she does to the credit card in a shoe store. If anyone here can afford her you can have her. :D

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