+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 102

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Scientific Karma?

    SCIENTIFIC 'KHARMA'
    Facts;

    1. Each day, in labs, mice, chimps and other mammals are subjected to a range of experiments, the motives range from the testing of cosmetics, to the testing of new drugs.

    2. In the case of the latter, there is massive evidence to prove that even if a drug seems to work on a mouse or a chimp, it does not work on a person, because of the differences in the biological make up. Upshot? Animals suffer for nothing, many experiments are worthless and a waste of time.

    3. Paedophiles cannot be re-habilitated. Massive evidence to support that.

    4. Placing paedophiles in jail merely robs them of their liberty. They serve (often absurdly short) terms, get out, and re-offend.

    5. They are aided & abetted by Governments, who not only give them new identitities, but house them , conceal their crimes from members of the public, and, in many cases, house them near to schools.

    6. Executing paedophilesis not only a real throwback to the 'lynch mob' mentality, it is often what the beasts themselves would actually opt for, as a pose to a long jail term. You need only look at the one's who do kill themselves to see that.

    7. Keeping someone in jail, in the UK, costs an average of around 1000 per week, and that is a modest estimate.

    SOLUTION? SCIENTIFIC 'KHARMA'.

    1) Test the drugs on the Paedophiles, not the animals. That way they are being tested on something biologically identical to us, unlike the mouse, chimp, etc.

    2) Let us say that they were testing a new drug that would cure cot deaths, or leukemia, in children? Tried it on a mouse. Seemed to work. Tried it on a chimp. Seemed to work. If it worked on a paedophile, it would then be proven as a success, and be on the market quicker. This, in turn would save the lives of many babies and children. Like I say, scientific 'Kharma'. Paedophiles are worthless. This way, although they could never bring back the life of the child they had killed, they could redress the balance by saving the lives of possibly thousands of children across the World.

    Your views......

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    You are insane.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by ianmatthews
    You are insane.
    That is what I like to see, a well thought out post, with the potential for debate.

    :rolleyes:

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    That is what I like to see, a well thought out post, with the potential for debate.

    :rolleyes:
    You're saying that testing on human beings is more ethical than testing on animals. Sorry, felons have rights, regardless of what you'd like to see.

    I'm not defending pedophilia, so don't bother with that. What you're advocating is scientific and medical testing on criminals, which is utterly abhorrent to me. You're not doing much to dissaude people from the opinion that you're a eugenicist at heart.

    As much as I see the Raelian movement as complete nonsense, your point of view flies in the face of their strict views on universal human rights.

    http://www.rael.org/hungarian/pages/...g_charter.html

    I don't advocate their cultish nonsense, just pointing out that if you do, you're ignoring their main tenets.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    [QUOTE=ianmatthews]You're saying that testing on human beings is more ethical than testing on animals. Sorry, felons have rights, regardless of what you'd like to see.

    I am saying that testing on those that would abduct, sexually abuse, and torture children, rather on animals, esp when the animal testing is often useless is more 'ethical', and more beneficial, yes I do. And these are not normal crims, like housebreakers, they are mentally predisposed to what they are doing.

    I'm not defending pedophilia, so don't bother with that. What you're advocating is scientific and medical testing on criminals, which is utterly abhorrent to me. You're not doing much to dissaude people from the opinion that you're a eugenicist at heart.

    You clearly do not understand what eugenics is, and you clearly read, but do not consider the proposals of others.

    As much as I see the Raelian movement as complete nonsense, your point of view flies in the face of their strict views on universal human rights.

    Sigh. For the 17th time, I am NOT a Raelian, therefore, why would I be dogmatic about their 'manifesto'? Please try to keep up ;)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    [QUOTE=enlightenment]
    Quote Originally Posted by ianmatthews
    You're saying that testing on human beings is more ethical than testing on animals. Sorry, felons have rights, regardless of what you'd like to see.

    I am saying that testing on those that would abduct, sexually abuse, and torture children, rather on animals, esp when the animal testing is often useless is more 'ethical', and more beneficial, yes I do. And these are not normal crims, like housebreakers, they are mentally predisposed to what they are doing.

    I'm not defending pedophilia, so don't bother with that. What you're advocating is scientific and medical testing on criminals, which is utterly abhorrent to me. You're not doing much to dissaude people from the opinion that you're a eugenicist at heart.

    You clearly do not understand what eugenics is, and you clearly read, but do not consider the proposals of others.

    As much as I see the Raelian movement as complete nonsense, your point of view flies in the face of their strict views on universal human rights.

    Sigh. For the 17th time, I am NOT a Raelian, therefore, why would I be dogmatic about their 'manifesto'? Please try to keep up ;)
    If you're not advocating the Raelian movement, then why are you pushing for "Geniocracy" in another thread?

    The problem with your plan, which is indeed eugenics, is that it's not only inhumane and completely unethical, but it's a slippery slope.

    Would you also test on the mentally ill? Who would judge who is a pedophile because of mental illness? Who's fit to make these distinctions?

    Think about the potential for abuse you are proposing.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by ianmatthews
    If you're not advocating the Raelian movement, then why are you pushing for "Geniocracy" in another thread?

    The problem with your plan, which is indeed eugenics, is that it's not only inhumane and completely unethical, but it's a slippery slope.

    Would you also test on the mentally ill? Who would judge who is a pedophile because of mental illness? Who's fit to make these distinctions?

    Think about the potential for abuse you are proposing.
    Wikipedia is amusing, and sometimes useful, don't rely on it for your main source of info, Ian.

    Anyone can write for that site.

    Besides, it is possible to seperate the IRM from a politcal idealogy, surely even you can see that?

    And what slippery slope?

    In the US, they have the death penalty, I do not see that progressing to killing any old criminal. Jesus, what a drama queen.

    As for those with mental illness, the majority of those with mental illness, are NOT a danger to anyone, and to lump them in with paedos is a digusting insult on your part.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Wikipedia is amusing, and sometimes useful, don't rely on it for your main source of info, Ian.

    Anyone can write for that site.

    Besides, it is possible to seperate the IRM from a politcal idealogy, surely even you can see that?

    And what slippery slope?

    In the US, they have the death penalty, I do not see that progressing to killing any old criminal. Jesus, what a drama queen.

    As for those with mental illness, the majority of those with mental illness, are NOT a danger to anyone, and to lump them in with paedos is a digusting insult on your part.
    Wikipedia is perfectly fine, as long as you vet the sources cited in the article and perform due diligence. Is there anything you'd actually like to dispute in the articles, instead of attacking the source itself?

    I oppose the death penalty, for the very reason that too many innocent people are put to death.

    First of all, it's not disgusting on my part to "lump" the mentally ill with pedophiles, if that's even what I was doing (it wasn't). A percentage of people who commit violent crimes are mentally ill, you know that. It's fact.

    You're turning it into me saying that if a percentage of the mentally ill commit pedophilia of some sort, that all mentally ill people have the capacity for pedophilia, which is an utterly absurd accusation.

    The problem with geniocracy is symptomatic in the very policies you advocate. The lack of scientific rigor necessary for inclusion of geniocracy as properly testable political ideology can be noted in number of modern and historical dictatorships as well as oligarchies. You're just slapping a new coat of paint on fascism.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,549

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Amendment VIII
    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
    While medical/pharma testing on convicts might be legal in other countries it is not legal in the U.S.

    With each passing post you are certifying the message that you are far from "enlightened". You do your cause more harm than good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,167

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    I want to play devils advocate here for a while, because in my experience people rarely understand why they believe the things they do.

    *For a start, who should all humans be afforded equal rights, when they clearly aren't equal?
    *Why should people who have abused the rights of others (and more importantly persist in doing so repeatedly regardless of punishments) be freely given those rights?
    *Why are most animals outside of these 'rights' to one degree or another?

    not taking sides yet, i just want to see this idea explored from some first principles so that a good basis can be established for either position.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,549

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Hi Aegist,

    Animal testing: Necessary... it is one of, if not 'the' first step in determining the effects of a drug on a living entity. Up until then, IMO, everything else is theoretical.

    "Animal Rights" end when they conflict with "Human Interests".

    Medical/Pharmaceutical testing is about the best example I can come up with. Before testing on humans we need to know with some degree of certainty what to expect.
    I agree with the general view that pedophilia is a serious crime and that those guilty of it deserve the sternest punishment that can, legally, be meted out. However, bypassing animal testing of pharmaceuticals in favor of human testing on our most vicious criminals clearly comes under the heading of "cruel and unusual punishment."

    Is one of the goals of a "geniocracy" to establish the Josef Mengele Foundation for Pharmaceutical and Medical Research?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,548

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by aegist
    I want to play devils advocate here for a while, because in my experience people rarely understand why they believe the things they do.

    *For a start, who should all humans be afforded equal rights, when they clearly aren't equal?
    *Why should people who have abused the rights of others (and more importantly persist in doing so repeatedly regardless of punishments) be freely given those rights?
    *Why are most animals outside of these 'rights' to one degree or another?

    not taking sides yet, i just want to see this idea explored from some first principles so that a good basis can be established for either position.

    Equal rights is simply a concept of fairness. When used in the creation of a country's constitution, for instance, since there is no authority that can identify what is equal and who should be above who, it is only fair to afford equal rights to all. The principal of individual liberty suggests that no governent has the right to infringe upon that liberty. Of course then laws are set up that usually provide for equal rights assuming that everybody obeys the law. When that breaks down.......well you get the point. And some would argue that equal rights should NOT be afforded to all. The KKK for example. There are rights and there are wrongs. It is within each individual, and each governent to choose.

    I too wonder why other animals are outside these rights. For me, they are not. Sure some of them I eat and others I make clothes out of but that gets back to the natural selection process. I'll step over a spider whenever I can. It seems to me that it was religion that decided that humans are a superior being. Man in god's image and all that crap.
    Last edited by bogie; 12-12-2006 at 05:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulM
    Hi Aegist,

    Animal testing: Necessary... it is one of, if not 'the' first step in determining the effects of a drug on a living entity. Up until then, IMO, everything else is theoretical.

    "Animal Rights" end when they conflict with "Human Interests".

    Medical/Pharmaceutical testing is about the best example I can come up with. Before testing on humans we need to know with some degree of certainty what to expect.
    I agree with the general view that pedophilia is a serious crime and that those guilty of it deserve the sternest punishment that can, legally, be meted out. However, bypassing animal testing of pharmaceuticals in favor of human testing on our most vicious criminals clearly comes under the heading of "cruel and unusual punishment."

    Is one of the goals of a "geniocracy" to establish the Josef Mengele Foundation for Pharmaceutical and Medical Research?
    Sigh.

    You don't read v well, do you?

    This has NOTHING to do with Geniocracy, the fact that you are unable to let the repeated fact sink in though means that you would lose the vote!

    :D


    And btw, if you really think animal testing is fine, then how do you feel about the drug Thelomide, safe on primates, yet, look what it did to a generation of people.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,753

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by aegist
    I want to play devils advocate here for a while, because in my experience people rarely understand why they believe the things they do.

    *For a start, who should all humans be afforded equal rights, when they clearly aren't equal?
    *Why should people who have abused the rights of others (and more importantly persist in doing so repeatedly regardless of punishments) be freely given those rights?
    *Why are most animals outside of these 'rights' to one degree or another?

    not taking sides yet, i just want to see this idea explored from some first principles so that a good basis can be established for either position.

    Well put.

    Yes, we may be born 'equal', biologically, but as our lives unfold, it is clear that there are those, who by definition of their terrible brutality, toward their fellow man, animals, and so on, are most certainly not equal.

    Should someone like Geoffrey Dahmer have been given equal rights over Einstein?

    Good post.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Sigh.

    You don't read v well, do you?

    This has NOTHING to do with Geniocracy, the fact that you are unable to let the repeated fact sink in though means that you would lose the vote!

    :D


    And btw, if you really think animal testing is fine, then how do you feel about the drug Thelomide, safe on primates, yet, look what it did to a generation of people.
    Are you talking about Thalidomide? It wasn't "safe" on animals. If anything, it wasn't tested on animals ENOUGH before it was rushed to market.

    http://www.multiplemyeloma.org/treatments/3.04.html
    http://www.myeloma.org/main.jsp?sour..._id=94&id=1070
    http://www.k-faktor.com/thalidomide/
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/south...lidomide.shtml
    http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-75-88/s...y/thalidomide/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,682

    Re: Scientific Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    Well put.

    Yes, we may be born 'equal', biologically, but as our lives unfold, it is clear that there are those, who by definition of their terrible brutality, toward their fellow man, animals, and so on, are most certainly not equal.

    Should someone like Geoffrey Dahmer have been given equal rights over Einstein?

    Good post.
    I'm not sure how somebody can be given equal rights "over" somebody else, doesn't that defeat the premise?

    You are suggesting that there is no such thing as free will, basically. That somebody of some higher indeterminate moral authority should have more rights than their "inferiors". Who is ultimately going to determine this and how?

    The problem is that means Einstein gets more rights than not only Dahmer, but you and I.

    You're also ignoring the real world example of Dahmer losing his freedom because of his own acts. I think that system works pretty well.

Similar Threads

  1. Karma?
    By willyjoe in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-24-2012, 01:32 AM
  2. Karma is Real
    By sojustask in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-27-2010, 05:04 PM
  3. Karma Strategies
    By leigh22 in forum Mail Order Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-24-2009, 11:54 PM
  4. Does Karma really exist?
    By howdy in forum General Chat
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 12-14-2008, 08:08 PM
  5. KARMA the emotional security blankey, DOGMA=Karma
    By littlebear in forum Religious Scams
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-07-2007, 10:57 AM

Tags for this Thread

Add / Edit Tags
000, abuse, account, acts, addict, admit, admitted, agreed, alcohol, ale, amendment, american, animal, another, appears, appointments, article, ass, asy, attention, authority, babies, balance, banned, based, basic, basically, beneficial, block, body, books, breaks, bringing, bunch, canadian, canadian citizens, card, care, catch, categories, cer, chain, chance, charter, che, chemicals, cheney, children, circuit, citizens, clean, cleara, clearing, clerk, clo, close, coin, coke, comments, comparison, complete, conceal, congressional, continue, conveniently, convictions, costs, counting, countries, courts, coward, crack, crap, credit, crimes, criminals, cruel, cure, dan, day, dead, death, debate, decades, decision, defeat, deserve, differences, disease, disgusting, disqualify, district, diversity, dna, doesn, don, door, drug, dry, due, dying, eliminate, eme, endorses, enemy, enter, environment, episode, error, ethical, examples, expand, experience, expert, extreme, eye, families, fashion, faulty, federal, fine, fit, fix, focus, foundation, fred, generation, ground, guys, hands, hasn, head, heading, hear, hey, high, higher, home, horse, hot, house, html, huma, human, human rights, humans, ial, ian, identify, illness, image, important, individuals, induce, info, inhumane, injury, interest, isn, issues, jail, joint, judge, justify, karma, kkk, land, leaders, license, line, lions, lived, living, long, longer, los, lynch, mankind, market, mass, mea, medical, meet, members, men, mental, mentally, mentally ill, mind, mob, monetary, monitoring, mosquitos, motives, nasty, national, nature, needed, number, onli, opinion, oral, org, owns, par, part, passed, paul, pays, pedophiles, people, person, personal, pharmaceuticals, plan, plane, play, poison, policies, poor, pop, pos, pose, post, posted, posts, potential, power, predators, prevent, prisoners, privacy, problem, productive, promotes, protection, public, punish, punishment, pursuit, push, queen, question, questions, raise, real, reality, reason, reasonable, reasons, rehab, released, reliable, removed, research, respond, response, rights, risk, rock, role, rushed, sacred, safe, sane, selling, sen, senate, serve, services, sho, short, simply, site, small, smoke, soo, source, sources, specifically, spent, stars, start, states, stays, stealing, stein, stop, stories, story, stream, stripping, summer, supporting, supports, talking, taxpayers, test, testing, theft, theives, thinks, thread, threatened, times, tme, told, top, torture, total, track, treatment, types, une, unethical, united, united states, universe, upset, url, vacation, version, vicious, view, violence, violent, voted, ward, weapons, welfare, west, western, wise, won, worked, working, www, year

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •