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  1. #1
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    Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    "According to the bible, God planned, ordered, and supported the murder of an innocent man by the name of Jesus. If that is true, then ask yourself and others the following questions: If God condemns murder and killings, then why did he create a plan for Jesus to be killed on the cross?

    Furthermore, according to the bible and the teachings of bible experts and scholars, God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, a set of laws for man to live by. If God was serious about that, then why did God give Moses one of the Ten Commandments that says, “THOU SHALL NOT KILL?” If it was good to kill Jesus on the cross, then does that mean that it is not wrong to kill, and does that also mean that Judas and the murderers of Jesus are heroes and good people for carrying out a murder that was planned, ordered, and supported by God, and if murder is not wrong, then why do people go to the electric chairs, and gas chambers for committing murder, now?

    If Judas and the murderers of Jesus are evil, then does that mean that God is also evil for planning, ordering, and supporting that murder?

    Was God trying to teach the world that it is not wrong to kill and that the commandment of thou shall not kill was wrong or in error? Does all of the above also mean that God is a hypocrite for saying thou shall not kill when he planned, ordered, and supported the murder of Jesus? Does this also mean that the people who committed the murder of Jesus should be congratulated and considered as being immortal heroes throughout all of eternity because they were simply carrying out the murderous wish and command of God? As of today, all of the people, such as Judas, who were accused of being involved n the murder of Jesus, are considered as being evil people for carrying out that murderous plan of God.

    In conclusion, according to the bible and according to what priests, preachers, and bible experts interpret, preach and teach, God planned, ordered, and supported the murder of an innocent man by the name of Jesus in order to save man of his sins, such as murder, after God had already given man a commandment that says that thou shall not kill.

    Was Jesus really murdered on the cross, or is God a hypocrite, or are some parts of the bible inaccurate and untruthful, or are some of the preachings/teachings/interpretations of the bible by priests/preachers/other bible experts, and churches inaccurate and untruthful? " :confused:

  2. #2
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Christianity just isn't your thing, is it. You will find the answer in your cheerios.

  3. #3
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Why, because I like to ask questions? Instead of insulting me why don't you answer the question?

    The word "Church" comes from the Goddess "Circe" (Pronouned Sir-Cee) which is where we get the word "Circle" or "Circus". She is known for getting men drunk on her wine (her religion) and turning them into swine.

    In Scottish, it is pronounced "Kirk".


    With enough Knowledge out there, eventually people will return back to a state of self-interpretation of spirituality instead of being told what God wants or has said.

  4. #4
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    God did not MURDER anyone to murder is to kill against the will or desires of God. When a state kills a convicted criminal the state is endowed with that right by God who oversees all things and grants authority of a government to exist. Likewise since Jesus is part of the Trinity God did not kill Jesus. God in effect sacrificed part of Himself to save men from sin and damnation.

    The more exact translation of the commandment is "Thou Shall Not MURDER", not not Kill.

  5. #5
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    sojustask is offline The Late, Great Lady Mod - Retired User Rank
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    God did not MURDER anyone to murder is to kill against the will or desires of God. When a state kills a convicted criminal the state is endowed with that right by God who oversees all things and grants authority of a government to exist. Likewise since Jesus is part of the Trinity God did not kill Jesus. God in effect sacrificed part of Himself to save men from sin and damnation.

    The more exact translation of the commandment is "Thou Shall Not MURDER", not not Kill.

    A state is a fictional entity. A state can not do anything. Explain how God endowed a fictional entity to kill and not a sovereign human to?

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    I believe that God is love and he does not punish or kill anyone. However, the Bible says something entirely different:


    When God found out how evil man is, God was sorry He created man, repented, and vowed to slaughter mankind (plus all the animals).

    “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth...And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them” (Genesis 6:5-7).



    “And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. Again also he sent unto him another captain . . . And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty . . . And he sent again a captain of the third fifty . . . Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties” (2 Chronicles 1:10-14).



    “And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried, they shall be dung upon the ground” (Jeremiah 25:33).


    That is why Christianity is not my "thing"

    I started this thread beacuse I wanted to debate this aspect of Christian dogma.
    Last edited by Buddy69; 12-06-2006 at 10:47 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    God did not MURDER anyone to murder is to kill against the will or desires of God. When a state kills a convicted criminal the state is endowed with that right by God who oversees all things and grants authority of a government to exist. Likewise since Jesus is part of the Trinity God did not kill Jesus. God in effect sacrificed part of Himself to save men from sin and damnation.

    The more exact translation of the commandment is "Thou Shall Not MURDER", not not Kill.

    So are you saying that God gives certain people permission to kill?

    Remeber the crusades? The battle cry of the soldiers were "God wills it!"

    During the crusades, innocent men, women and children were killed because some arrogant leader believed that God wanted it.


    "Alvarado and other heinous evil "explorers", and bishops of the church were given instructions by the pope and his cohort kings and queens to search out and destroy any written records possessed by the new world "savages" of which there were many (Mayan tablets 1OO,OOO years old) telling of ancient lands and cultures. So Alvarado and his henchmen raped the women, stole the gold, burnt and crumbled the ancient writings and he and Bishop de Landa (the bishop of Yucatan 1566) were blessed by the pope for their evil deeds"
    Last edited by Buddy69; 12-06-2006 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    A state is a fictional entity. A state can not do anything. Explain how God endowed a fictional entity to kill and not a sovereign human to?

    Lady Mod
    Its very simple a government cannot exist save by the will of God no different than in feudal times a King or King was granted that power by the will of God. The same way God endowed Saul then replaced him with David in the Bible. An evil government is allowed to exist due to His wishes as well as good governments they are not fictional a government (state) acts in a way to a person. And when a state decides under their law to take a life for whatever reason under their laws such as executing a murderer its not itself murder, but proper justice.

    And humans individually are allowed to kill there are many accounts in the Bible including the Judges, David killing Goliath and the like. What God commands in Heaven is blessed on Earth this INCLUDES justified killing in His name.

    As for the excesses of certain religious factions even a Church acts with the will of God if they were in a Crusade and it was acting in accord with secular and religious leaders it was justified. God grants them the authority and in that they must answer to God how they use it as its a test of their faith. Do I think these people always acting in a Christian way no but that does not remove their divine rights granted by God. But those not Christians are not under the blessings of God so if non-Christians were put to the sword and the like it was fully acceptable. But the Conquistadors were also ordered to give the heathens a chance to convert when possible if they did they could not kill them, its not their fault the Mayans and the like refused God for their heathen ways.

    As for God killing sure He did we are His creations and He is God if its His will to strike us dead for some reason He can. Who says God is an all loving God Jesus was such a prophet and taught that true. But in the Old Testament and in Revelation He will pour His wrath upon the Earth and in fact in the Old Testament often acted in a way to protect His people. The laying to waste of the Firstborn of Egypt is a fine example.

  9. #9
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy69
    Why, because I like to ask questions? Instead of insulting me why don't you answer the question?

    The word "Church" comes from the Goddess "Circe" (Pronouned Sir-Cee) which is where we get the word "Circle" or "Circus". She is known for getting men drunk on her wine (her religion) and turning them into swine.

    In Scottish, it is pronounced "Kirk".


    With enough Knowledge out there, eventually people will return back to a state of self-interpretation of spirituality instead of being told what God wants or has said.
    The word 'church' is the Anglicized word for 'ecclesia,' which means 'assembly.'

    And with enough Knowledge out there, eventually people will find out in eternity they got it wrong.

  10. #10
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy69
    So are you saying that God gives certain people permission to kill?

    Remeber the crusades? The battle cry of the soldiers were "God wills it!"

    During the crusades, innocent men, women and children were killed because some arrogant leader believed that God wanted it.


    "Alvarado and other heinous evil "explorers", and bishops of the church were given instructions by the pope and his cohort kings and queens to search out and destroy any written records possessed by the new world "savages" of which there were many (Mayan tablets 1OO,OOO years old) telling of ancient lands and cultures. So Alvarado and his henchmen raped the women, stole the gold, burnt and crumbled the ancient writings and he and Bishop de Landa (the bishop of Yucatan 1566) were blessed by the pope for their evil deeds"
    Why is it that you believe that the Crusaders were born-again Bible-believing the Christains?

    Funny, I thought they killed those who had a Bible.

    Also, why do you believe that Roman Catholicism is biblical Christianity?

  11. #11
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy69
    "According to the bible, God planned, ordered, and supported the murder of an innocent man by the name of Jesus. If that is true, then ask yourself and others the following questions: If God condemns murder and killings, then why did he create a plan for Jesus to be killed on the cross?

    Furthermore, according to the bible and the teachings of bible experts and scholars, God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, a set of laws for man to live by. If God was serious about that, then why did God give Moses one of the Ten Commandments that says, “THOU SHALL NOT KILL?” If it was good to kill Jesus on the cross, then does that mean that it is not wrong to kill, and does that also mean that Judas and the murderers of Jesus are heroes and good people for carrying out a murder that was planned, ordered, and supported by God, and if murder is not wrong, then why do people go to the electric chairs, and gas chambers for committing murder, now?

    If Judas and the murderers of Jesus are evil, then does that mean that God is also evil for planning, ordering, and supporting that murder?

    Was God trying to teach the world that it is not wrong to kill and that the commandment of thou shall not kill was wrong or in error? Does all of the above also mean that God is a hypocrite for saying thou shall not kill when he planned, ordered, and supported the murder of Jesus? Does this also mean that the people who committed the murder of Jesus should be congratulated and considered as being immortal heroes throughout all of eternity because they were simply carrying out the murderous wish and command of God? As of today, all of the people, such as Judas, who were accused of being involved n the murder of Jesus, are considered as being evil people for carrying out that murderous plan of God.

    In conclusion, according to the bible and according to what priests, preachers, and bible experts interpret, preach and teach, God planned, ordered, and supported the murder of an innocent man by the name of Jesus in order to save man of his sins, such as murder, after God had already given man a commandment that says that thou shall not kill.

    Was Jesus really murdered on the cross, or is God a hypocrite, or are some parts of the bible inaccurate and untruthful, or are some of the preachings/teachings/interpretations of the bible by priests/preachers/other bible experts, and churches inaccurate and untruthful? " :confused:
    Christ said He laid down His life - He gave Himself up on the cross. And He raised it up again.

    Do you believe this?

  12. #12
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Why is it that you believe that the Crusaders were born-again Bible-believing the Christains?

    Funny, I thought they killed those who had a Bible.

    Also, why do you believe that Roman Catholicism is biblical Christianity?
    First question is no they were not they had the authority to act according to their rulers and the Church so in a direct way were acting with the Will of God. Just because their leaders may have misused that authority ,I leave that to God to decide, does not mean they murdered anyone. They killed in accord with divine providence. The same providence that also supported the forming of the United States by the way. No different.

    As for who they killed they did execute heretics and those they deemed guilty of crimes against the faith again that is an issue God must decide but the Church had the authority granted by God to do that. If individual Inquisitors and the like were a bit overzealous well let God sort them out.

    As for Roman Catholicism they were and do support the Christian Faith even if I disagree with certain issues of dogma. The same seed of truth ,the Bible, is still there. In fact it was a divine instrument besides the Holy Crusades which protected Christian Europe from Muslims they brought God to many heathens albeit a bit too zealously but still did what they did for the glory of God.

  13. #13
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Ruby, I'm not a Christian, so feel free to ignore this, but--you're really kinda losing points for your team with this 'divinely sanctioned killing of millions of innocents' rhetoric.

  14. #14
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    What team if one is a Christian and believes God is the ruler of the Universe then He everything exists to His bidding if that is us, a bird or a government of any sort its His wish and will. Period. So any government or Church body is in the end its His will to make or destroy. So if they Christian world at one time was deemed to require a strong aliance between Church and State to protect it and expand it so be it.

    Why should I apologize for a view that is very Biblical did not even the prophets anoint the Kings of Israel with the authoirty of God?

  15. #15
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Christ said He laid down His life - He gave Himself up on the cross. And He raised it up again.

    Do you believe this?

    Although he gave himself up, he was still murdered.

    He did not die naturally nor by accident.

    He did not hang himself up on the cross, someone put him there.

  16. #16
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    Re: Does God Plan, Order, Or Support Murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyslippers
    What team if one is a Christian and believes God is the ruler of the Universe then He everything exists to His bidding if that is us, a bird or a government of any sort its His wish and will. Period. So any government or Church body is in the end its His will to make or destroy. So if they Christian world at one time was deemed to require a strong aliance between Church and State to protect it and expand it so be it.

    Why should I apologize for a view that is very Biblical did not even the prophets anoint the Kings of Israel with the authoirty of God?
    Justice, justice you shall pursue...

    The kings of Israel still had to follow the Torah, and the laws--some of which were made only for kings. G-d said that Israel would want a king like the other nations did, but the king thing wasn't such a hot idea--still, they'd go ahead and do it anyway. That didn't give kings the authority of G-d. Think Saul. Or even David.

    In answer to your first question...The Really Scary Team?

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