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  1. #1
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    Why I'm backing Israel

    Lorna Fitzsimons
    Friday November 24, 2006
    The Guardian


    The left and the Islamists portray me as a Zionist neocon, but it takes two sides to make a peace deal.

    Some said I should have my head examined after I agreed to become the chief executive of a pro-Israel advocacy group, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre. But people said the same when I joined Labour in the mid-80s.

    There is never a wrong time to do the right thing and if, like me, you are convinced of Israel's cause, then why not support Israel and why not now? I have always been a practical idealist, a non-Jew who has always believed in a two-state solution. But I have never been more concerned about the false reality many people are constructing around Israel and the Middle East, here and abroad. Our polling shows that opinion formers know that Israel is a fully functioning democracy, but care more about what Israel does than what Israel is.

    Since its birth 58 years ago, Israel has always been prepared to compromise for peace. From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace. Last summer Israel withdrew from Gaza, angry settlers and all. Yet the terror from the Gaza Strip has continued - more than 1,000 rockets have been fired into southern Israel in the past year. Since 2000, nine fatalities have been caused by Qassam missiles.

    Some media have reported the panic these missiles have caused but they downplay the impact because of the small scale of fatalities compared with those on the Palestinian side. My husband, a British soldier, is currently serving a tour of duty in Iraq. His unit has come under mortar fire nearly every night for the past six months. Not many service personnel have been killed by these missiles but every soldier fears that the next one might have his or her name on it. Do you think that a child, a parent or a grandmother in one of the towns bordering Gaza thinks there have been "only" nine fatalities? Can you imagine what that does to a civilian population?

    We need to think carefully about the consequences of questioning the defensive reactions of a nation-state that is constantly bombarded by an enemy calling for its destruction, especially after it has withdrawn from Lebanon and Gaza. Would we as British citizens accept a single rocket on a British town, let alone hundreds?

    The commentators' objection is that the response is "disproportionate". But how does a nation-state defend itself against a terrorist organisation or organisations that are part of, and deliberately hide behind, ordinary citizens? Of course the Israeli military and all military forces must act ethically. But if the number of civilian casualties continues to be the main issue, there is no incentive for the terrorists to stop using the civilian population as a shield.

    We live in dangerous times when, in parts of the left especially, you can't be a friend to Islam or to Muslims unless you are anti-Israel. That is exactly what al-Qaida wants us to think. Events in Rochdale at the last election represent a microcosm of what we are sleepwalking into globally. The Islamists and the left argued that, because I supported Israel and its right to exist, all my work for my Muslim constituents was a lie. They suggested I was an opportunistic, neocon Zionist, aiming to dupe them.

    Israel's willingness to compromise for peace has never been enough, because Israel alone cannot gain peace. The Palestinians and others in the region also have to want peace. Israel needs a serious interlocutor so that peace can stand a chance. So my question to the left is this: why not concentrate your attention there, rather than on the one player in the region who has always been serious about peace?

  2. #2
    tony_jenn Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Israel is God's Chosen...God will bless those who bless Israel, and curse those who curse Israel...I'm with you 100% Mars3000...God's will be done...amen

  3. #3
    Rusted's Avatar
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Since when is just one group of people in one geographical location "chosen"?

  4. #4
    tony_jenn Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusted
    Since when is just one group of people in one geographical location "chosen"?
    Every since God created the Nations, Israel(JEWS) are God's children...all throughout the bible, Israel is God's Chosen...Gentiles(non-Jews) are adopted into God's family when they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior...Jews are born God's children...Jesus was a JEW :cool:

  5. #5
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by tony_jenn
    Every since God created the Nations, Israel(JEWS) are God's children...all throughout the bible, Israel is God's Chosen...Gentiles(non-Jews) are adopted into God's family when they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior...Jews are born God's children...Jesus was a JEW :cool:

    That could be true...except for one little thing. You're confusing Satan with God. That's typical for an evil Zionist and member of The Synagogue Of Satan.

  6. #6
    tony_jenn Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    you blasphemy against God and the Holy Spirit, dcristie...I will pray for you...amen
    Deuteronomy 7:6 " For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God; the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto thyself, above all people who are on the face of the earth."

  7. #7
    dchristie's Avatar
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mars3000
    Lorna Fitzsimons
    Friday November 24, 2006
    The Guardian


    The left and the Islamists portray me as a Zionist neocon, but it takes two sides to make a peace deal.

    Some said I should have my head examined after I agreed to become the chief executive of a pro-Israel advocacy group, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre. But people said the same when I joined Labour in the mid-80s.

    There is never a wrong time to do the right thing and if, like me, you are convinced of Israel's cause, then why not support Israel and why not now? I have always been a practical idealist, a non-Jew who has always believed in a two-state solution. But I have never been more concerned about the false reality many people are constructing around Israel and the Middle East, here and abroad. Our polling shows that opinion formers know that Israel is a fully functioning democracy, but care more about what Israel does than what Israel is.

    Since its birth 58 years ago, Israel has always been prepared to compromise for peace. From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace. Last summer Israel withdrew from Gaza, angry settlers and all. Yet the terror from the Gaza Strip has continued - more than 1,000 rockets have been fired into southern Israel in the past year. Since 2000, nine fatalities have been caused by Qassam missiles.

    Some media have reported the panic these missiles have caused but they downplay the impact because of the small scale of fatalities compared with those on the Palestinian side. My husband, a British soldier, is currently serving a tour of duty in Iraq. His unit has come under mortar fire nearly every night for the past six months. Not many service personnel have been killed by these missiles but every soldier fears that the next one might have his or her name on it. Do you think that a child, a parent or a grandmother in one of the towns bordering Gaza thinks there have been "only" nine fatalities? Can you imagine what that does to a civilian population?

    We need to think carefully about the consequences of questioning the defensive reactions of a nation-state that is constantly bombarded by an enemy calling for its destruction, especially after it has withdrawn from Lebanon and Gaza. Would we as British citizens accept a single rocket on a British town, let alone hundreds?

    The commentators' objection is that the response is "disproportionate". But how does a nation-state defend itself against a terrorist organisation or organisations that are part of, and deliberately hide behind, ordinary citizens? Of course the Israeli military and all military forces must act ethically. But if the number of civilian casualties continues to be the main issue, there is no incentive for the terrorists to stop using the civilian population as a shield.

    We live in dangerous times when, in parts of the left especially, you can't be a friend to Islam or to Muslims unless you are anti-Israel. That is exactly what al-Qaida wants us to think. Events in Rochdale at the last election represent a microcosm of what we are sleepwalking into globally. The Islamists and the left argued that, because I supported Israel and its right to exist, all my work for my Muslim constituents was a lie. They suggested I was an opportunistic, neocon Zionist, aiming to dupe them.

    Israel's willingness to compromise for peace has never been enough, because Israel alone cannot gain peace. The Palestinians and others in the region also have to want peace. Israel needs a serious interlocutor so that peace can stand a chance. So my question to the left is this: why not concentrate your attention there, rather than on the one player in the region who has always been serious about peace?
    Again. .the victimizer trying to play the victim. This is the Zionist propagandists stock and trade and a main dividend of the Holocaust Industry. Assuming the profile of the compromiser while ignoring the compromises made on the other side is a routine operating procedure for Zionists. To claim they are willing to compromise with stolen property is a farce and absurdity on its face even while they are busy building more illegal settlements, grubbing more stolen land and ethnically cleansing the indigenous population of the area with cluster bombs and American Taxpayer supplied F16s used against people who are living in concentration camps. What unadulterated Bullsh!t. We REAL Americans don’t care what you think the racist apartheid regime of Zionist Israel is either in reality or in some Zionist Fanatic’s Pipe Dreams and Fairy Tales. We care what they do because it's our money they do it with and it's our people who have been put in the crosshairs as a result.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mars3000
    Lorna Fitzsimons
    Friday November 24, 2006
    The Guardian


    The left and the Islamists portray me as a Zionist neocon, but it takes two sides to make a peace deal.

    Some said I should have my head examined after I agreed to become the chief executive of a pro-Israel advocacy group, the Britain Israel Communications and Research Centre. But people said the same when I joined Labour in the mid-80s.

    There is never a wrong time to do the right thing and if, like me, you are convinced of Israel's cause, then why not support Israel and why not now? I have always been a practical idealist, a non-Jew who has always believed in a two-state solution. But I have never been more concerned about the false reality many people are constructing around Israel and the Middle East, here and abroad. Our polling shows that opinion formers know that Israel is a fully functioning democracy, but care more about what Israel does than what Israel is.

    Since its birth 58 years ago, Israel has always been prepared to compromise for peace. From Begin's agreement with Sadat in 1979 to the Arafat-Barak talks at Camp David in 2000, Israeli leaders have been prepared to challenge their own people in pursuit of peace. Last summer Israel withdrew from Gaza, angry settlers and all. Yet the terror from the Gaza Strip has continued - more than 1,000 rockets have been fired into southern Israel in the past year. Since 2000, nine fatalities have been caused by Qassam missiles.

    Some media have reported the panic these missiles have caused but they downplay the impact because of the small scale of fatalities compared with those on the Palestinian side. My husband, a British soldier, is currently serving a tour of duty in Iraq. His unit has come under mortar fire nearly every night for the past six months. Not many service personnel have been killed by these missiles but every soldier fears that the next one might have his or her name on it. Do you think that a child, a parent or a grandmother in one of the towns bordering Gaza thinks there have been "only" nine fatalities? Can you imagine what that does to a civilian population?

    We need to think carefully about the consequences of questioning the defensive reactions of a nation-state that is constantly bombarded by an enemy calling for its destruction, especially after it has withdrawn from Lebanon and Gaza. Would we as British citizens accept a single rocket on a British town, let alone hundreds?

    The commentators' objection is that the response is "disproportionate". But how does a nation-state defend itself against a terrorist organisation or organisations that are part of, and deliberately hide behind, ordinary citizens? Of course the Israeli military and all military forces must act ethically. But if the number of civilian casualties continues to be the main issue, there is no incentive for the terrorists to stop using the civilian population as a shield.

    We live in dangerous times when, in parts of the left especially, you can't be a friend to Islam or to Muslims unless you are anti-Israel. That is exactly what al-Qaida wants us to think. Events in Rochdale at the last election represent a microcosm of what we are sleepwalking into globally. The Islamists and the left argued that, because I supported Israel and its right to exist, all my work for my Muslim constituents was a lie. They suggested I was an opportunistic, neocon Zionist, aiming to dupe them.

    Israel's willingness to compromise for peace has never been enough, because Israel alone cannot gain peace. The Palestinians and others in the region also have to want peace. Israel needs a serious interlocutor so that peace can stand a chance. So my question to the left is this: why not concentrate your attention there, rather than on the one player in the region who has always been serious about peace?
    Again, the victimizer is trying to play the victim. This is the Zionist Propagandist's stock in trade and the main dividend of the Holocaust Industry.

    Assuming the profile of the compromiser while ignoring the compromises made on the other side is a routine operating procedure for Zionists. To claim they are willing to compromise with stolen property is a farce and an absurdity on its face even while they are busy building more illegal settlements, grubbing more stolen land and ethnically cleansing the indigenous population of the area with cluster bombs and American Taxpayer supplied F16s used against desperate people who are living in concentration camps.

    The premise of this thread and the lead article are pure unadulterated Zionist Bullsh!t of the most rank and nauseating nature. We REAL Americans don’t care what you "think" the racist apartheid regime of Zionist Israel is - either in reality or in some Zionist Fanatic's Twisted Pipe Dreams and Biblical Fairy Tales.

    We care what they do because it's our money they do it with and it's our country and our people that have been put in the crosshairs as a result. If Zionists demonstrate anything, it's that words mean nothing to them. And The Arabs know well that's always the net result of trading in talk with Zionist Terrorists.
    Last edited by dchristie; 11-27-2006 at 05:01 AM.

  9. #9
    tony_jenn Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    GOD BLESS ISRAEL AND THE U.S.A.


    :cool: ISRAEL IS GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, WE MUST PRAY FOR THEM...GOD'S WILL BE DONE...AMEN

  10. #10
    dchristie's Avatar
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by tony_jenn
    GOD BLESS ISRAEL AND THE U.S.A.


    :cool: ISRAEL IS GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, WE MUST PRAY FOR THEM...GOD'S WILL BE DONE...AMEN
    Don't forget to write from where you're going. They may even have fireproof paper. Say Hi to Lucifer.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by tony_jenn
    you blasphemy against God and the Holy Spirit, dcristie...I will pray for you...amen
    Deuteronomy 7:6 " For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God; the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto thyself, above all people who are on the face of the earth."
    I suppose you aren't familiar with the Jew's rejection of the Savior? The first was when they crucified him, the second rejection when they stoned and killed the Apostles. 70 A.D. Jerusalem was destroyed, the Jews sent into exhile or captured. Their whole-hearted rejection of God was complete. God withdrew His protective power protecting Jerusalem. However, all the Christians in Jerusalem were saved. It is no longer enough to be born a Jew to be saved. The "chosen ones" are those who acknowledge Christ the Redeemer of the world, follow Him and endeavor to become more Christ-like.

    Maybe you need to read the Scriptures some more or pray for guidance. I reckon you believe in the "Rapture"? If so, you're in for a REAL treat. heh..heh...
    Last edited by Americanadian; 11-27-2006 at 07:43 AM.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  12. #12
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by tony_jenn
    GOD BLESS ISRAEL AND THE U.S.A.


    :cool: ISRAEL IS GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, WE MUST PRAY FOR THEM...GOD'S WILL BE DONE...AMEN
    Present day Israel is governed by Secular Zionists who really don't care about Judaism, human lives or laws. It is a murdering regime of demon possessed murderers, who do the will of Lucifer, their god.

    Is it just me or is this guy a delusional pro-Zionist c0ckroach?

    Hey Tony....you're wasting your time praying to God on Zionist Israel's behalf. I don't think He's too pleased with them killing hundreds of innocent children every month. Do yourself a favor, go live in Israel for a year and let us know how they treat you. If you are that blind to the violence Israel employs, you're a lost cause.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  13. #13
    dchristie's Avatar
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Americanadian
    Present day Israel is governed by Secular Zionists who really don't care about Judaism, human lives or laws. It is a murdering regime of demon possessed murderers, who do the will of Lucifer, their god.

    Is it just me or is this guy a delusional pro-Zionist c0ckroach?

    Hey Tony....you're wasting your time praying to God on Zionist Israel's behalf. I don't think He's too pleased with them killing hundreds of innocent children every month. Do yourself a favor, go live in Israel for a year and let us know how they treat you. If you are that blind to the violence Israel employs, you're a lost cause.

    October 19, 2004

    Spitting triggers Jewish-Christian tension in Jerusalem’s Old City

    by Michele Green
    Ecumenical News International

    JERUSALEM — Tensions in Jerusalem’s Old City have flared following an incident in which a Jewish seminary student spat at an archbishop during a procession from the city’s Armenian Quarter to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, a site commemorating Jesus’ crucifixion and burial.

    Israeli police arrested the seminary student, but Christian clerics living in the walled Old City say such assaults by ultra-Orthodox Jews is a frequent occurrence.

    “It happens maybe once a week,” Armenian Bishop Aris Shirvanian told Ecumenical News International. “As soon as they notice a Christian clergyman they spit. Those who are ‘respectful’ turn their backs to us or the large cross that we may carry but the ones that are daring either spit on the ground or on the person without any provocation on our part.”

    In the Oct. 10 incident, a cross was ripped from the archbishop’s neck when a scuffle broke out after the Jewish seminary student spat at the cleric. The seminary student later told police he had done it because he saw the religious procession as idolatry. Police said the man had been temporarily banned from visiting the Old City and that he had been placed on bail pending an indictment.

    Bishop Shirvanian said spitting against Christian clergyman had been going on for years and that the assailants were religious Jews, sometimes men but also women, teenagers and even children.

    “This shows that it is a phenomenon that is prevailing in their religious education and it should be corrected,” he said.

    Daniel Rossing, director of the Jerusalem Center for Jewish-Christian relations, said his organization was collating accounts of spitting incidents so they could approach rabbis and demand they teach their congregants to stop such attacks.

    “All people are created in the image of God and to spit on another person is to spit on the image of God,” Rossing said. He said that usually the assailants were ultra-Orthodox Jews and the victims were “people wearing liturgical vestments or are wearing a manifest Christian symbol such as a cross.” Rossing said he believed the attacks were carried out due to intolerance towards Christians by ultra-Orthodox Jews as well as to anger from religious persecution in past centuries.

    Israeli police spokesman Gil Kleiman said few Christians file complaints with police about such assaults and unless they did it was impossible to arrest and prosecute the assailants.

    “We can only act when we have been informed by a complainant. When we do know about it we act immediately to arrest the person who did it and bring them to justice,” Kleiman said.

    The Israeli newspaper Haaretz said in an Oct. 12 editorial: “It is intolerable that Christian citizens of Jerusalem suffer from the shameful spitting at or near a crucifix. Similar behavior toward Jews anywhere in the world would immediately prompt vehement responses.”

    Editors Note: Can you blame them?
    Last edited by dchristie; 11-27-2006 at 08:03 AM.

  14. #14
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Americanadian

    Is it just me or is this guy a delusional pro-Zionist c0ckroach?

    .
    is it just the rest of us, or are you a delusional anti-jewish/israeli c0ckroach????

    call israelis or zionists or jews or watever you want, you are just a hateful bastard....

  15. #15
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    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by tony_jenn
    GOD BLESS ISRAEL AND THE U.S.A.


    :cool: ISRAEL IS GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE, WE MUST PRAY FOR THEM...GOD'S WILL BE DONE...AMEN

    No jews were God's chosen people, Israel is a country. Don't forget that the jews don't recognize Jesus as the mesiah.

    It has always amazed me how much Christians hail Israel when Christianity and Judiasm are two different religions and when the Jew's refuse to recognize Jesus as the mesiah. Am I wrong, but according to Christianity, don't you have to be saved by Jesus Christ to go to heaven? :cool:

  16. #16
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Why I'm backing Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Button
    No jews were God's chosen people, Israel is a country. Don't forget that the jews don't recognize Jesus as the mesiah.

    It has always amazed me how much Christians hail Israel when Christianity and Judiasm are two different religions and when the Jew's refuse to recognize Jesus as the mesiah. Am I wrong, but according to Christianity, don't you have to be saved by Jesus Christ to go to heaven? :cool:
    i guess you have to first beleive in heaven and hell to live your life according to those principles...

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