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Thread: Salvation Army

  1. #1
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    Salvation Army

    DO NOT SUPPORT THESE NATIONWIDE FRAUDSTERS

    In our town a few years ago, one family was made homeless by a fire which destroyed everything they owned.

    The SALVATION ARMY was noted by the local news as the point of contact
    for donations of goods and cash to help the specific family.

    I attempted to give a $100.00 check to the family directly, and since I did so in the presence of a SALVATION ARMY puke, I was told by the S A pukethat I had to give it to THEM instead of the FAMILY, yet knowing the NAME of the FATHER,
    I already had the check made out to HIM, and HANDED IT TO HIM.

    He later told me that the SALVATION ARMY FORCED HIM to sign over the check to THEM or everything they WERE doing for the family would CEASE
    IMMEDIATELY!

    How do I know this to be TRUE?

    Because at the time, we specified ALL checks be PHYSICALLY RETURNED BY THE BANK to us, and it was STAMPED FOR DEPOSIT ONLY :SALVATION ARMY
    over the fathers signature!

    They now refuse to say MERRY CHRISTMAS on top of the FRAUD, so they can kiss my butt no matter WHAT.

  2. #2
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    Re: Salvation Army

    so you give the check to the man, he did not have to give it to the salvation army people, no one had a gun to his head, so it was this man that was the stupid one. He could of cashed the check himself. So the S.A. stole the money? When that man who you wrote to check out to when he immediately told you S.A, said I have to give it to them, why didnt you take your check back and just give the man $100. ???

  3. #3
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    Re: Salvation Army

    How can anyone accuse an organization such as the Salvation Army with being fraudulent? Really, it defies all logic.

    First of all, answer me this: have you ever bothered to go down to a salvation army center? The salvation army operates homeless shelters, drug and alcohol treatment centers, outreach centers, and all other manner of public benefit charities all across the united states. The evidence that they are not fraudulent is right in front of anyone's eyes if they are willing to look. The massive infrastructure they have did not get there by magic; it was built by people who cared about helping others and was done without trying to make money off of the effort. Here is a hint: building and operating centers that help people requires MONEY. The salvation army was, at the time you tried to give the family a check, probably providing food, housing, and comfort to the family in question. In effect, they were in the care of the SA. While it is probably NOT true that you "had" to give the money to the SA (and the SA employee may have been incorrect), even a little thought would have helped you realize that the amount of money the SA was doling out to the family on a daily basis probably exceeded what you wanted to give, so why not help them do that?

    Second, realize that the fact that one salvation employee offended you does not make the entire organization fraudulent.

    Third, realize that the salvation army often deals with people who are struggling to come out of addiction. You might pause to wonder if you are in posession of all of the facts. For instance, do you know how the family's house burned down? You seem to assume it was a tragic accident, but what if the nice man you were trying to give money to was addicted to crack? Do you still think it would be that smart to give him a hundred dollars? What if their house burned down while he was freebasing coke? My point is there is a lot of information that could actually make the SA request understandable and even reasonable; it's obvious that when you are trying to help an addicted person, you do NOT give them MONEY.

    My impression is that you didn't really pause to wonder why they wanted you to give the money to them; you simply reacted and immediately hurled accusations of fraud. I don't think you thought it through very much, and that's ok - we all do it sometimes. But I hope in the future you'll spend some time thinking about what you say BEFORE you say it; there really is no grounds whatsoever upon which to accuse the Salvation Army of being a scam, and that kind of unthinking accusation is just harmful and it does nobody any good at all.
    Last edited by ttupper; 12-25-2006 at 07:30 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Salvation Army

    I don't give them money because I know they wil not not aid openly gay or transgendered persons and I feel if a charity is there to help they should help anyone. Regardless of the position of the charities religious affiliation or beliefs. Would you before being critical give money to a charity that didn't help black people or disbled people I treat this as the same thing. They are to be a Chrisitan charity I thought and Jesus never turned a sinner away iof He deemed a person one and they have no right on moral grounds to not help a gay person. But I do agree they are not a scam they are a very sound charity I just don't agree with their policies. Its my right to refuse giving my money if I disagree with a charity its my right though.

  5. #5
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    Re: Salvation Army

    The salvation army does not refuse to assist openly gay or transgendered persons, they simply do not condone or allow the behaviors in question while a person is in their care. That means that a person who is biologically male but cross-dressing as a female will not be allowed to do that while in the care of the SA, and a person who intends to continue engaging in same sex behavior probably also will not be allowed to do so in their program.

    I think it is not at all unreasonable of you not to want to support the SA if you disagree with their policies: it is your money, and you have a right to spend it in the areas you think it willdo the most good. But out of fairness you probably should also realize that it is not strange of them to enforce certain standards of behavior while someone is in their care. Think about it like this: If you had someone living under your roof for free, and you really hated people gettiung drunk all the time, would you consider it unreasonable to request or even demand that they not drink while residing with you and receiving your charity? My guess is no, you would not. Therefor, why expect them to be any different?

  6. #6
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Not at all but the Christian should minister to the people but help them, I may not support a transgender person myself I think they are kind of freaky but I would never not give one bread or a blanket because of that. Jesus taught me to give charitably and my faith demands I respect the dignity of the individual in need unless they are doing a behaviour that is dangerous to myself or others. Even then they deserve care and succor as best as it can be given. No its not unfair to demand a person that drinks heavily not to do so but ones gender identity or who they are is not a mental illness as per the guidelines of modern psychological thought. So these people are not mentally ill. They may be acting in a way contrary to the Bible but that is fundamentally not a reason to refuse succor to anyone.

    Let me ask if you saw a gay man with AIDS and in need of a roof and food you think its right that a Christian charity refuse them care even if he maintains his identity as a gay man? I just say its not. That issue is ultimately between him and the Creator regardless and refusing him care to live is wrong by our judging him. I am not God. I am a follower of the Creator and will be kind to this man. What if they said we don't give charity to blacks? You see the problem where can a Christian charity refuse care to a person it spits on our faith. Even Jesus told us to forgive seventy times seven meaning we are to always forgive and love our fellow man there are exceptions like a defensive war or executing criminals a power granted to a government. But I am to forgive and offer help.

    And why should they be different than I? They shouldn't as a Chiristian I am to HATE THE SIN and LOVE THE SINNER. If Jesus would have held a man that is gay with AIDS then who are we to the memory of the saviour to not do the same. So yes I find the Salavation Army and their view here offensive as a Christian. So give of my money and time to a local Christian Charity that acts according to my beliefs and these people do not.

    But I do again add they are not a scam they do great work and provide charity to many. That is where I disagree with the author of this thread.

  7. #7
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Quote Originally Posted by ttupper
    Think about it like this: If you had someone living under your roof for free, and you really hated people gettiung drunk all the time, would you consider it unreasonable to request or even demand that they not drink while residing with you and receiving your charity? My guess is no, you would not. Therefor, why expect them to be any different?

    It's hardly a reasonable comparison, is it?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  8. #8
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    Dec 2006
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    Re: Salvation Army

    If indeed this incident happened with the Salvation Army it is very unusual. I have been dealing with this group for over 50 years and always found them to be open, above board and completely truthful. I would have gotten the name and rank of the person and contacted the headquarters. They go out of their way to help people. I have been in neighborhoods where fires wiped out a family's posessions. They were the first ones there to offer hope and help. One family was given JC Penney gift cards and Grocery coupons. I will always support the Salvation Army. I am sorry for the incident, it should never have happened.

  9. #9
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Quote Originally Posted by enlightenment
    It's hardly a reasonable comparison, is it?
    It's a very reasonable comparison. The Salvation Army operates residential centers. That is, they operate facilities where people who are addicted to drugs or face other challenges live and receive support to get past their problems. It is absolutely reasonable of the Salvation Army to dictate that while you are in their program you won't be smoking, drinking, or engaging in other prurient / destructive behaviors. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable of them to enforce these policies... since many of these behaviors run counter to the goal of helping someone to become clean / sober. This is not some evil penchant of the Salvation Army... it's standard operating procedure for pretty much every sober living home, treatment center, and psych program out there.

    I don't believe even for a minute that the salvation army denies services to people who are transgendered or homosexual. However, there is a distinction between saying "because you have behaved this way, I will not help you" and "I will help you, but while I'm doing so I request that you NOT act this way." To suggest that this means they are denying services is what is not reasonable.

  10. #10
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Quote Originally Posted by ttupper
    It's a very reasonable comparison. The Salvation Army operates residential centers. That is, they operate facilities where people who are addicted to drugs or face other challenges live and receive support to get past their problems. It is absolutely reasonable of the Salvation Army to dictate that while you are in their program you won't be smoking, drinking, or engaging in other prurient / destructive behaviors. In fact, it's perfectly reasonable of them to enforce these policies... since many of these behaviors run counter to the goal of helping someone to become clean / sober. This is not some evil penchant of the Salvation Army... it's standard operating procedure for pretty much every sober living home, treatment center, and psych program out there.

    I don't believe even for a minute that the salvation army denies services to people who are transgendered or homosexual. However, there is a distinction between saying "because you have behaved this way, I will not help you" and "I will help you, but while I'm doing so I request that you NOT act this way." To suggest that this means they are denying services is what is not reasonable.
    You compare smoking and drinking to sexual orientation, and think that is a reasonable comparison?

    Huh? :confused:

    Look, were I to set up a centre to help heroin addicts, or those with a drink problem, then sure, while they were at my centre, I would think it counter productive to allow them to drink or inject while at the centre, and it might be detrimental to others who were trying to combat their problem.

    But let me permit you into something.

    Ready?

    You cannot 'catch' homosexuality, and you cannot 'make' a truly hetrosexual man homosexual!

    Besides which, I don't think many homosexuals consider their preference a 'problem'.

    Your thinking is illogical.
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  11. #11
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    269

    Re: Salvation Army

    Enlighten,

    I totally disagree. Your thinking or comparison is totally illogical.
    Don't get scammed. Check out all opportunities or Companies before doing business.

  12. #12
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Quote Originally Posted by solidwork
    Enlighten,

    I totally disagree. Your thinking or comparison is totally illogical.
    Why?

    At least expand this for me a bit?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

  13. #13
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    Location
    Florida
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    553

    Re: Salvation Army

    Yes but does that excuse the Salavation Army rufusing gays food and emergency funds after a hurricane when not IN any of their centers for residential care. I have friends ,I don't agree with their lifestyle but are friends, that after hurrican katrina they refused a lesbian couple some money and some emergency goods in New Orleans. We are talking enough money to get by to buy food and food baskets they collected. I mean as a Christian gay or not a person has a right to charity care of that sort its not drug treatment here. Its basic care items after a disaster. The same happened around here after the hurricanes in Florida.

    That is why I wont give them one cent now and never will a CHristian Charity should follow the way of Christ I hardly think He would refuse bread and a blanket to anyone suffering after a disaster.

  14. #14
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    Jun 2006
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    Alabama
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    4

    Re: Salvation Army

    I've been to rehab for drugs and the idea is that you should not start any new relationships until you have been clean for atleast 1 year. And unless you partner is in there with you thats what you would be doing. And while in the centre they want you to keep your mind on the problem that brought you there not on sex.They believe it takes atleast 1 year for you to find out who you are without drugs in your system

  15. #15
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Sorry if I sound really harsh, but in my opinion from my experience so far charities are almost always scams. Look at the fancy buildings and offices they have with fancy office equipment and fancy vans with their logo printed on professionally. Where do you think all the money for those fancy stuff comes from? From donations you and I give to them! So, I don't give donations anymore.

  16. #16
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    Re: Salvation Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Samtheman
    Sorry if I sound really harsh, but in my opinion from my experience so far charities are almost always scams. Look at the fancy buildings and offices they have with fancy office equipment and fancy vans with their logo printed on professionally. Where do you think all the money for those fancy stuff comes from? From donations you and I give to them! So, I don't give donations anymore.
    To an extent I agree with you.

    However, what must be remembered is that to run them properly is a full time job in itself, yes?

    Therefore, unless those involved in them were v wealthy, so that they need not work, how could someone use their skills as a co-ordinator or fundraiser, full time, and sustain themselves?
    "Ethics" is simply a last-gasp attempt by deist conservatives and
    orthodox dogmatics to keep humanity in ignorance and obscurantism,
    through the well tried fermentation of fear, the fear of science and
    new technologies.
    There is nothing glorious about what our ancestors call history,
    it is simply a succession of mistakes, intolerances and violations.

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