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  1. #1
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    Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    And this is where the Great Dictator George Bush has led his country. This kind of sentiment is what the Neocons applaud. And whose children do you think they are willing to sacrifice? Think about it. The answer is not that hard.
    ********************************************

    Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein
    By HASSAN M. FATTAH
    Published: November 7, 2006

    DUBAI, United Arab Emirates Nov. 6 — European politicians on Monday spoke out against the death sentence for Saddam Hussein. Arab officials and commentators derided what they said was a flawed and politicized trial, while for the first time broadly acknowledging Mr. Hussein’s crimes.

    Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, speaking to reporters on Monday, said he opposed the death penalty for Mr. Hussein, joining several other European leaders and European Union officials who announced their opposition to the sentence. When pressed by reporters, Mr. Blair spoke of his longstanding opposition to capital punishment. He said he did not intend to protest the sentence, and condemned Mr. Hussein’s brutality.

    European leaders insisted that the viciousness of the actions of which Mr. Hussein was found guilty had not changed their view that state-sponsored killing was wrong. Some warned that executing Mr. Hussein would only worsen the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq.

    The Associated Press quoted Terry Davis, secretary general of the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly, as saying: “A country ravaged by violence and death does not need more violence, and especially not a state-orchestrated execution. Saddam Hussein is a criminal and should not be allowed to become a martyr.”

    Amnesty International said Sunday that it “deplored” Mr. Hussein’s sentence, describing the proceedings as “deeply flawed and unfair.”

    In the Arab world, many dismissed the verdict as a product of an unfair trial, decrying the lack of control of the proceedings by the judges, the seeming contradictions in procedures and the generally politicized nature of the proceedings. Most of those who commented on the subject said the decision to impose the death penalty would not stem the wave of violence gripping Iraq.

    “You’ll hear a lot of moderates say it’s great Saddam got what he deserves, but unfortunately it was through a trial that was regrettable,” said Ayman Safadi, the editor of the Jordanian daily newspaper Al Ghad. “People see Saddam himself as irrelevant. This trial was not about Saddam; it was about Iraq itself.”

    Analysts said the timing of the verdict, just two days before the United States midterm elections, underscored the politically charged nature of the proceedings.

    “His sentencing now is a deliberate attempt to boost the Republicans in the U.S.,” said Imad Shueibi, president of the Data and Strategic Studies Center, a privately financed research organization in Damascus, Syria. “They’re expecting big losses in the upcoming elections, and they figure maybe this sentence might give an illusion of some success. But of course only the naïve will believe that.”

    But for many, the trial missed an opportunity to send messages to other dictators and to teach valuable lessons.

    “There’s no way to celebrate,” said Muhammed al-Ameer, the political editor at the Saudi daily newspaper Al Riyadh. “No one doubts that Saddam committed human rights abuses, but the trial was so flawed that it put things in question. It just keeps sounding like a step taken by the Republicans to help them.”

    Perhaps the most dramatic shift was in how many viewed Mr. Hussein. Previously, few in the region had been willing to address directly the issue of whether he might be guilty of crimes against his people, with many people lionizing the former dictator. Most of those interviewed on Sunday and Monday said they believed he was guilty, but they also said that the flaws in his trial offset his guilt.

    “People used to see Saddam as a fearless, defiant leader, but then he appeared in handcuffs and his image was shattered,” said Saleh Qallab, a columnist with the Jordanian government-backed newspaper Al Rai. “Nobody can sympathize with a weak figure; that change is not political, but psychological.”

    Makram Mohamed Ahmed, a columnist with the Egyptian government-backed Al Ahram newspaper, said, “He was a burden to his nation and a burden to the entire Arab world and he might have truly deserved this fate, if only the court’s legitimacy was not in question.”

    Most of all, Mr. Ahmed said, the verdict has failed to send a message to other Arab leaders to loosen their grip and make needed changes. “I don’t think any of the Arab leaders will come to think that this can happen again,” he said. “The Bush’s administration is losing its popularity and the Democrats may get a majority in the Congressional elections.”

    Suha Maayeh contributed reporting from Amman, Jordan.
    Last edited by sojustask; 11-07-2006 at 04:16 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    I myself oppose the sentence that Saddam Hussein is receiving. I think it's really unfair. The fact that they're only going to kill him once is terrible. We need a medical team standing by with defibrilator to revive him after he dies.

    Hanging is too dignifying for the guy. I think he should be launched into the horizon with a catapault. You commit genocide, you get the catapault. That ought to be a rule.

    Sunnis can whine about the trial and the verdict all they want. Screw the politics surrounding the trial. The mass graves speak for themselves.

    And I think liberals are such losers for being on the wrong side of this issue. "Wah, wah, the trial wasn't fair! People are protesting! Bush is always wrong!" What a bunch of pansies. Saddam was walking around in his jail cell wearing tighty-whities, eating Dorritos, and socializing with the guards.

    The fact that there even was a trial offends me. Well, it doesn't offend me if the verdict is already guilty, and we want to find out HOW guilty. But still, if he thinks he's getting a cushy life sentence, he can think again.

    No more invading Kuwait. No more lighting up the oil wells. No more building those dumb palaces and portraying himself as Nebuchadnezzar and looking forward to the day he can re-enact the enslavement of Israel. No more using chemical weapons (aren't those WMDs?) on the Kurds. No more shooting at U.S. planes in the no-fly zones. No more sending weapons to Syria. No more brutal oppression of his own citizens, arresting them and torturing them without trial. No more being "the Butcher of Baghdad". No more selling oil for food scandal. No more selling oil to Communist China.

    Thank God we have an army of people willing to do this. This isn't a Republican victory. This is a victory of the citizens of the United States.

    Frankly, I am pissed off. I can't believe Kim Jong Il received money to feed his people, but instead decided to starve his people so he could build nukes. We don't have the morale to take him down. But the fact that the American people had the morale to do to Saddam what should have been done over a decade ago is a blessing.

    I hope that the citizens of America take a hard stance against genocidal dictators. Show them you mean business. I'm really proud of you guys for being able to bring about the social change you did in Iraq. I hope you never forget how powerful you are as a people and as voters. Keep learning about what's going on in the world, and stay involved in politics. Screw celebrity culture.

    There, I said it.
    Last edited by Ronald; 11-07-2006 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    IMO anyone who is so concerned with his welfare, the fairness of the trial and
    so on, deserves to have him rule them.
    Guess the mass murders didnt count enough....kind of rings of the over protection of criminals in this country. Where was Am. International when
    Daniel Byrds head was sawed off. Where were they when all the other
    civilians were beheaded??? Guess we just didnt ......understand.... :rolleyes:

  4. #4
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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    The problem Ronald and GoodWitch is that the courtroom proceedings were questionable and the timing of the announcement bad, it looked too much like a political move of the Bush's again and killing him makes a martyr out of him and spawn an entire new generation who will revere him whether or not he was bad. They always forget about the bad stuff when a person is made a Martyr.

    That is the point. Look at the ages of the kids holding the signs. Those are the new enemy. Should we kill them first Ronald? Take the war to them and kill them BEFORE they pose a threat to us?

    This Mickey Mouse trial and resulting death sentence was one of the worst PR moves that could happen to the United States. It may remove one dictator, but it's gonna create a massive amount of enemies and potential terrorists. They should just ship him off to one of those "secret prison camps" the CIA has.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    This Mickey Mouse trial and resulting death sentence was one of the worst PR moves that could happen to the United States. It may remove one dictator, but it's gonna create a massive amount of enemies and potential terrorists. They should just ship him off to one of those "secret prison camps" the CIA has.

    Lady Mod
    If anybody deserves to be tortured at the secret camps, why not him? I really could care less if they cut his balls off and shove them in this mouth before they hang him ;) but I see where you are getting at with him being made a martyr. Funny thing is, he wasn't a muslim extremests like Osama but just a dictator who loved money and power.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by Button
    Funny thing is, he wasn't a muslim extremests like Osama but just a dictator who loved money and power.
    Oh, we have one of those "dictators" running things here! :D Maybe we can impeach ours and get them adjoining cells at camp?

    LOL

    .

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    Oh, we have one of those "dictators" running things here! :D Maybe we can impeach ours and get them adjoining cells at camp?

    LOL

    .

    Wouldn't that be funny

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Conservatives absolutely love death. They love to kill, they love to murder, and it doesn't really matter who they kill. They have this twisted "revenge" attitude when "punishment" is what is required.
    "Scientific studies have consistently failed to find convincing evidence that the death penalty deters crime more effectively than other punishments. The most recent survey of research findings on the relation between the death penalty and homicide rates, conducted for the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002, concluded: ". . .it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

    As Ronald said "The fact that they're only going to kill him once is terrible. We need a medical team standing by with defibrilator to revive him after he dies" goes to show that killing someone once is certainly not enough for conservatives, they are not interested in punishment in the least. Punishment for a man who lived in lavish palaces would be spending the rest of your natural life in a 6 x 12 concrete enclosure.

    In your own country Ronald....
    "Recent crime figures from abolitionist countries fail to show that abolition has harmful effects. In Canada, for example, the homicide rate per 100,000 population fell from a peak of 3.09 in 1975, the year before the abolition of the death penalty for murder, to 2.41 in 1980, and since then it has declined further. In 2003, 27 years after abolition, the homicide rate was 1.73 per 100,000 population, 44 per cent lower than in 1975 and the lowest rate in three decades".

    Lock Saddam up for the rest of his life. Try to keep him alive for as long as possible so he can suffer like the families of his victims will for the rest of their lives. Killing him once, twice, or 500 time serves no purpose. And making him a martyr will cause us problems for decades.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    Conservatives absolutely love death. They love to kill, they love to murder, and it doesn't really matter who they kill.
    I take offense to that personally. I am a conservative, a true conservative. If you want to label Republicans fine, since Republicans have gotten so far from there true conservative base it is scary.
    Also, such generalizations such as you used only dilute your otherwise solid argument. I could also say some sad generalizations of the Democrats/liberals as many of the hard-line Republicans do, but if your arguments need stereotypes to prove a point then you truly have no point to make.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiplash
    I take offense to that personally. I am a conservative, a true conservative. If you want to label Republicans fine, since Republicans have gotten so far from there true conservative base it is scary.
    Also, such generalizations such as you used only dilute your otherwise solid argument. I could also say some sad generalizations of the Democrats/liberals as many of the hard-line Republicans do, but if your arguments need stereotypes to prove a point then you truly have no point to make.
    The remark was directed at Ronald Whiplash who clams he is a Conservative. Being that he lives in another country, he can't be labeled a Republican.

    Sometimes you have to understand the background before getting worked up over an insult that is not an insult aimed at true conservatives.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiplash
    I take offense to that personally. I am a conservative, a true conservative. If you want to label Republicans fine, since Republicans have gotten so far from there true conservative base it is scary.
    Also, such generalizations such as you used only dilute your otherwise solid argument. I could also say some sad generalizations of the Democrats/liberals as many of the hard-line Republicans do, but if your arguments need stereotypes to prove a point then you truly have no point to make.
    Are you in favor of the Death Penalty?

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    I read the entire post and am well aware of Ronald's home country. Username, DChristie, and several others, and I must include Grim, FrankG to be fair, use generalizations such as conservative/Republican and Democrat/liberal to label people as evil, perverted, and any number of colorful other insults that do nothing other than to detract from an actual intelligent debate. I still stand by my offense to his comment.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    Are you in favor of the Death Penalty?
    Yes I am UserName. Now how you will manage to twist that into saying I love death and it doesn't matter who I kill I can only wait and see.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiplash
    Yes I am UserName. Now how you will manage to twist that into saying I love death and it doesn't matter who I kill I can only wait and see.
    I hate to keep a murderer waiting. But I need not say anything. You pretty much proved my point.

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    I hate to keep a murderer waiting. But I need not say anything. You pretty much proved my point.
    Please enlighten me my friend. How can you possibly equate my belief in the death penalty with a fervent insatiable desire for death?

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    Re: Many Oppose Death Penalty for Hussein

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    Conservatives absolutely love death. They love to kill, they love to murder, and it doesn't really matter who they kill.
    This from the side that is pro-abortion. If we (conservatives) loved killing so much, why would we be trying to save the lives of embryos by fighting for stricter abortion laws? Wouldn't we join you on the issue?

    And if we (Christians) loved killing so much, then why would we give money to the needy in Africa afflicted in the AIDS crisis?

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    They have this twisted "revenge" attitude when "punishment" is what is required.
    The difference between killing in revenge and killing in justice is that revenge is self-seeking; but to kill in justice demands strength of character. Fighting the Nazis in WWII is by no means easy. Getting "revenge" on some guy who cut you off in traffic by following them home is different.

    Your desire to confuse the two for the sake of smearing people who stand for justice is immoral.

    Quote Originally Posted by UserName
    Lock Saddam up for the rest of his life. Try to keep him alive for as long as possible so he can suffer like the families of his victims will for the rest of their lives. Killing him once, twice, or 500 time serves no purpose. And making him a martyr will cause us problems for decades.
    Okay, but on one condition, that each day that he lives is painful. If he's going to eat a bunch of Doritos, write a bunch of books, walk around in his underwear, socialize with the guards while extremists hope for the day he will rule again, then no deal.

    I want Saddam's execution to send a clear message to anyone who even attempts genocide that we will not put up with, we will not be lenient.

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