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  1. #1
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    Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    "Christian Zionists: Major Players in the Middle-East"
    recorded April 18, 2005, 32 minutes

    http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

    Joan Bokaer's Bio:

    Joan Bokaer, Founder, TheocracyWatch Joan Bokaer was a nuclear disarmament activist and national speaker in the 1980's. On her many speaking tours, she became aware of the Religious Right as a political force in the Republican Party. From 1985 to 1989 Ms. Bokaer attended numerous fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Charismatic and nondenominational church services. She also participated in a political training seminar organized by the Moral Majority. She joined several political organizations of the Religious Right and spoke extensively with fundamentalists until she felt she understood their way of thinking. She was invited to speak on the subject throughout the country, particularly in mainline churches and theological seminaries. Ms. Bokaer noticed that she enjoyed attending some of the more spirited church services of groups she was studying. She appreciated how those institutions gave practitioners a sense of community. At the same time she was very alarmed by what the preachers were saying. Sermons were often focused on Satan. Preachers told parishioners that it was their Christian duty to get "godly" i.e. fundamentalist, Pentecostal or Charismatic people elected to office. The highly emotional church services often became vehicles for political manipulation. It seemed to her that isolation was endemic in this society, and that the churches she visited offered people a feeling of belonging. So she decided to address the dual problem of isolation and destruction of the natural world. She organized A Global Walk for A Livable World - one hundred people who walked from Los Angeles to New York City in 1990 to raise awareness about environmental issues. Upon her return from the walk she founded EcoVillage at Ithaca, an environmentally sensitive community based on ecological principles of design. She also co-organized the Third International EcoCity Conference in Senegal, West Africa in 1996. After the 2000 election she realized that few people understood that the religious right had taken working control of the Republican Party, and decided that she needed to dedicate her energies to raising awareness about that subject, so she founded TheocracyWatch. She felt she no longer had the luxury of working on her favorite subject -- ecological cities. She looks forward to the time she can work again with the international EcoCity movement.
    http://www.talk2action.org/user/Joan%20Bokaer

    "Life and Liberty for All Who Believe" is a powerful, 28 minute video documenting the birth of the Moral Majority. This video, produced by People for the American Way in 1982, shows actual footage of the politicization of what has become the dominionist movement. (edited 2004)
    http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

    “The church should be a disciplined charging army.
    Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions.
    We are fighting a holy war.”

    -Jerry Flawell
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 10-23-2006 at 10:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    "Christian Zionists: Major Players in the Middle-East"
    recorded April 18, 2005, 32 minutes

    http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

    Joan Bokaer's Bio:

    Joan Bokaer, Founder, TheocracyWatch Joan Bokaer was a nuclear disarmament activist and national speaker in the 1980's. On her many speaking tours, she became aware of the Religious Right as a political force in the Republican Party. From 1985 to 1989 Ms. Bokaer attended numerous fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Charismatic and nondenominational church services. She also participated in a political training seminar organized by the Moral Majority. She joined several political organizations of the Religious Right and spoke extensively with fundamentalists until she felt she understood their way of thinking. She was invited to speak on the subject throughout the country, particularly in mainline churches and theological seminaries. Ms. Bokaer noticed that she enjoyed attending some of the more spirited church services of groups she was studying. She appreciated how those institutions gave practitioners a sense of community. At the same time she was very alarmed by what the preachers were saying. Sermons were often focused on Satan. Preachers told parishioners that it was their Christian duty to get "godly" i.e. fundamentalist, Pentecostal or Charismatic people elected to office. The highly emotional church services often became vehicles for political manipulation. It seemed to her that isolation was endemic in this society, and that the churches she visited offered people a feeling of belonging. So she decided to address the dual problem of isolation and destruction of the natural world. She organized A Global Walk for A Livable World - one hundred people who walked from Los Angeles to New York City in 1990 to raise awareness about environmental issues. Upon her return from the walk she founded EcoVillage at Ithaca, an environmentally sensitive community based on ecological principles of design. She also co-organized the Third International EcoCity Conference in Senegal, West Africa in 1996. After the 2000 election she realized that few people understood that the religious right had taken working control of the Republican Party, and decided that she needed to dedicate her energies to raising awareness about that subject, so she founded TheocracyWatch. She felt she no longer had the luxury of working on her favorite subject -- ecological cities. She looks forward to the time she can work again with the international EcoCity movement.
    http://www.talk2action.org/user/Joan%20Bokaer

    "Life and Liberty for All Who Believe" is a powerful, 28 minute video documenting the birth of the Moral Majority. This video, produced by People for the American Way in 1982, shows actual footage of the politicization of what has become the dominionist movement. (edited 2004)
    http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

    “The church should be a disciplined charging army.
    Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions.
    We are fighting a holy war.”

    -Jerry Flawell
    This person believes in disarming nuclear weapons?
    That's interesting.

    I say "NUKE THE BLUE WHALES!!"

  3. #3
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions
    How true is that.

    No one wants to hear the truth i guess

  4. #4
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by wazzaa
    How true is that.

    No one wants to hear the truth i guess
    They have been brainwashed by fear just like most people. If God is on their side, what is it that they have to fear but themselves? Better to point a condeming finger at someone who is different than to look in the mirror and see their own shortcomings.

    Jesus taught us to be at peace with our brothers, Man says he can do better than what Jesus taught by going to war against our brothers. Ironic isn't it?

    The far right call themselves "Christians" but leaves the teachings of Christ out of it.

    People don't want wisdom, they want power and dominance.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  5. #5
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    I have no problem with having Christian values in the government -- that is the way it should be... I would follow whatever God would ask of me.

    As for Christians having fear even with God on their side .. that is because Christians know the wrath of God is no laughing matter-
    I do not plan to be here during the tribulation period and plagues.

    BTL
    Last edited by bethelight; 10-24-2006 at 05:51 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    I have no problem with having Christian values in the government -- that is the way it should be... I would follow whatever God would ask of me.

    As for Christians having fear even with God on their side .. that is because Christians no the wrath of God is no laughing matter-
    I do not plan to be here during the tribulation period and plagues.

    BTL
    Do you think there should be a separation of Church and State?

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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox
    Do you think there should be a separation of Church and State?
    Hmm tell what you define state as?

    BTL

  8. #8
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    Hmm tell what you define state as?

    BTL
    State would be government. Do you believe that there should be a "Government sponsored/backed/sanctioned" Religion?

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    I have no problem with having Christian values in the government -- that is the way it should be... I would follow whatever God would ask of me.

    As for Christians having fear even with God on their side .. that is because Christians know the wrath of God is no laughing matter-
    I do not plan to be here during the tribulation period and plagues.

    BTL
    There is fear akin to respect, i.e. Christians having fear of the wrath of God. And then there is the fear of other children of God (we are all God's children in the respect that we were all created by God) and fearing that God will not protect us from our enemies so we take things into our own hands and leave God out of it.

    So, was it right for Christians to back this war in Iraq because we fear possible terrorism, should we have allowed our fear to control our better judgment and ignore that we were to petiton God first?

    That was closer to what I meant about fear in my post.

    If God is really for us and we believe this, then who can be against us? Is not our God more powerful than any other? Do we not believe this and embrace it?

    Remember BTL, we are talking about the actions of the "Far Right" politically, not just us normal trying to live like Christ Christians. So I don't want you to misunderstand my comments about Christians. OK?

    It is and it isn't the average Christians fault they believed a lie about this war and about other people we share the planet with. It's our fault because as average Christians we got lazy and complacent and didn't test the spirits before casting our votes for members of Congress and the President. We suckered right into the lies about their belief in Christ and that they have OUR best interests in mind when they go to war. We've got to stop being complacent and allowing them to lead us around by the nose and we have got to stop doing that NOW.

    Oooooo, sorry, I am getting on a roll here. :eek: I'll stop now.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

  10. 10-25-2006, 06:29 AM


  11. #10
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    Hmm tell what you define state as?

    BTL
    Exactly... what SJA said, post #8.

  12. #11
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox
    Exactly... what SJA said, post #8.
    Funny how SJA can supposedly read your mind and answer the question...
    yes I think the division of church and state causes many of our problems.
    So if it is Godly run body of government- than church and state should be one.


    BTL

  13. #12
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    Funny how SJA can supposedly read your mind and answer the question...
    yes I think the division of church and state causes many of our problems.
    So if it is Godly run body of government- than church and state should be one.


    BTL
    Why funny? My first thread here had to do with church and politics. I hang out in the Political Forum most of the time. HotParadox posts occassionally in the Politics Forum, I've seen his/her posts. I knew the answer and saw the question first, so I answered it. Why would HP repeat what was already answered correctly?

    Our Constitution was set up to separate the powers of church and state because the Founding Fathers believed that the Church should not be interfered with by the Government. The Goverment should not start telling the Church what to preach.

    Are you sure you are a Christian? Jesus said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's. Jesus clearly did not want Government run churches. The church does not belong to the government and if you will look around, our government is not run by Christians.

    Lady Mod

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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by bethelight
    Funny how SJA can supposedly read your mind and answer the question...
    yes I think the division of church and state causes many of our problems.
    So if it is Godly run body of government- than church and state should be one.


    BTL
    I don't know that she read mind mind. She simply defined Separation of Church and State. SJA and I are politically very different! She's a Dem and I'm a Rep. But you answered my question and I thank you.

  15. #14
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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by sojustask
    So, was it right for Christians to back this war in Iraq because we fear possible terrorism, should we have allowed our fear to control our better judgment and ignore that we were to petiton God first?

    That was closer to what I meant about fear in my post.

    If God is really for us and we believe this, then who can be against us? Is not our God more powerful than any other? Do we not believe this and embrace it?

    Remember BTL, we are talking about the actions of the "Far Right" politically, not just us normal trying to live like Christ Christians. So I don't want you to misunderstand my comments about Christians. OK?

    It is and it isn't the average Christians fault they believed a lie about this war and about other people we share the planet with. It's our fault because as average Christians we got lazy and complacent and didn't test the spirits before casting our votes for members of Congress and the President. We suckered right into the lies about their belief in Christ and that they have OUR best interests in mind when they go to war. We've got to stop being complacent and allowing them to lead us around by the nose and we have got to stop doing that NOW.

    Oooooo, sorry, I am getting on a roll here. :eek: I'll stop now.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod
    The Fudamentalists back the war and they claim to be Christians. The Pope is vehemently opposed to the war, yet the Fundies and other Protestants claim that the Catholic Church is not Christian. Hmmm... Another reason why I maintain, God only knows.
    Last edited by HotParadox; 10-25-2006 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox
    I don't know that she read mind mind. She simply defined Separation of Church and State. SJA and I are politically very different! She's a Dem and I'm a Rep. But you answered my question and I thank you.
    I didn't know you were a Repug. I'm worse than Democrat, I'm a liberal. LOL.

    Actually, I consider myself an Independent but some of the neocons like to call me a liberal and I just go with the flow. It's just a label, not who I am and I don't get wrapped up emotionally in being labeled.

    I agree with some things out of all the political groups and disagree with some things. Basically, if it's not in line with the original intent our country was established on in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, I'm against it. I think the Constitution and Bill of Rights are in line with God's laws so when I see Government chipping away at those two documents and see Americans allowing them to, it gets me worked up.

    Don't let my being an Independent thinker stop you from bashing me in Politics should the mood strike you. That's half the fun in that forum. ;)


    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

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    Re: Because they hate our freedoms:Christian Zionists

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox
    The Fudamentalists back the war and they claim to be Christians. The Pope is vehemently opposed to the war, yet the Fundies and other Protestants claim that the Catholic Church is not Christian. Hmmm... Another reason why I maintain, God only knows.
    Christian = Brotherly Love and Peace. It's kind of an oxymoron these days.

    Namaste'

    Lady Mod

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