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  1. #1
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    Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case
    By Zachary Gorchow

    Detroit Free Press

    (MCT)

    DETROIT - Ginnnah Muhammad of Detroit was looking for her day in court.

    Instead, she said she felt as if a judge forced her to choose between her case and her religion in a small-claims dispute in Hamtramck District Court.

    A devout Muslim, she wore a niqab - a scarf and veil to cover her face and head except for her eyes - Oct. 11 as she contested a rental car company's charging her $2,750 to repair a vehicle after thieves broke into it.

    Judge Paul Paruk said he needed to see her face to judge her truthfulness and gave Muhammad, 42, a choice: take off the veil when testifying or the case would be dismissed. She kept the veil on.

    "I just feel so sad," Muhammad said last week. "I feel that the court is there for justice for us. I didn't feel like the court recognized me as a person that needed justice. I just feel I can't trust the court."

    The wearing of a niqab has spurred increasing debate, particularly in Europe. In 2004, France banned the wearing of it and other religious symbols in public schools.

    This month, former British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, still a member of parliament, ignited a fierce debate over the niqab by suggesting that Muslim women in his district remove their veils when they visit his office. He said it would improve communication, calling the veil "a visible statement of separation and of difference."

    It has sparked controversy in the United States as well. A Muslim woman from Florida unsuccessfully went to court in an effort to overturn the state's order in 2001 that she reveal her face for her driver's license photo.

    In metro Detroit, which has one of the country's largest Muslim populations, a small minority of Muslim women - primarily those of Yemeni descent - wear the niqab, said Dawud Walid , executive director of the Michigan branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

    Paruk said that as a fact finder, he needs to see the face of a person testifying. Michigan has no rules governing what judges can do regarding religious attire of people in court, so the judges have leeway on how to run their courtrooms.

    "My job in the courtroom is to make a determination as to the veracity of somebody's claim," he said. "Part of that, you need to identify the witness and you need to look at the witness and watch how they testify."

    Paruk said he offered to let Muhammad, who was born in the United States and converted to Islam at the age of 10, wear the veil during the proceedings except when she testified. He said this was the first time someone had come before his court wearing a niqab, and he noted that many Muslims do not consider it a religious symbol.

    "I felt I was trying to accommodate her as best I could," he said.

    Walid said Paruk still violated Muhammad's civil rights.

    "Although a niqab is donned by a minority of Muslim females, it is still a bona fide religious practice," he said.

    Hamtramck, once almost entirely populated by residents of e astern European descent, now has a large and growing population of Muslims.

    "There definitely needs to be greater sensitivity toward the growing populace in that municipality," Walid said.

    Judges should seek to strike a balance between running their courtrooms and respecting the religious views of those appearing before them, said Steve Leben, a Kansas trial court judge who is president of the American Judges Association.

    "I'm not trying to be critical of the judge because it is difficult to make decisions on the fly," Leben said. "But if it's a person's legitimate religious belief, we have a duty to try to reconcile these competing interests."

    Mark Somers, chief judge of the Dearborn District Court, which covers the bulk of the Detroit area's Muslim population, said he could not recall an instance when a woman who wore a niqab came before his court to testify.

    But he said he would not require a woman to remove her veil during a civil case.

    "To me, it would not be an issue," he said. "I simply as a matter of personal policy would never ask someone to do that."


    http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld...n/15817636.htm

  2. #2
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    I like George Bush..don't you?

    I think he influences all judges and Justices in some way, shape, or form.

    lol.

    :eek:

  3. #3
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    absolutely ridiculous just remove the damn veil, you're not in the friggin middle east anymore...you can't impose your culture on every other country out there and expect them to be completely tolerant of all your little quirks. yeah that's great, here we want to take a photo ID of you with a viel on your face, so no one knows if it's you or not. What happens in a police line up, you bring 8 muslim women with viels on there face, it was #3 officer, how do you know? I'd recognize that veil anywhere...ludicrous...

  4. #4
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    They should have let her wear the veil. Remember the statue of Lady Justice in front of just about every court house in this land. The woman is wearing a blind fold. This is symbolic for a reason. Justice in America is to be blind to how a person looks. Because the case at hand is to be judged on the facts.

  5. #5
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    They should have let her wear the veil. Remember the statue of Lady Justice in front of just about every court house in this land. The woman is wearing a blind fold. This is symbolic for a reason. Justice in America is to be blind to how a person looks. Because the case at hand is to be judged on the facts.
    no, it actually isnt based on just facts.....

  6. #6
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    This judge should be removed from the bench. In situations where it is essential to see someones face in order to identify them, the law has to insist that the veil is removed. In this case, this judge has simply decided that he doesn't like it, and threw out her case, basically stealing money from her. Fvck him. Common sense needs to applied at some point.

    As for Muslim women figuring out that this is just another way for men to control and diminish their lives....

  7. #7
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawud
    They should have let her wear the veil. Remember the statue of Lady Justice in front of just about every court house in this land. The woman is wearing a blind fold. This is symbolic for a reason. Justice in America is to be blind to how a person looks. Because the case at hand is to be judged on the facts.

    If it were a Jew in her place and the Judge told him to take off the yarmulke, we'd be hearing about it front and center in the media as the main headline for the next 6 months. The Judge would become the target of media scorn, removed from the bench and held up as a ...shudder... dreaded anti-Semite!!!!
    Last edited by dchristie; 12-23-2006 at 08:23 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    A yameka does not prevent identification.

    Try walking into a bank wearing a mask ...

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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie
    A yameka does not prevent identification.

    Try walking into a bank wearing a mask ...

    It's not an I.D issue.. It's about the arbitrariness of a judge who decides the merits of cases before him based on the facial expressions of the witnesses. This isn't juris prudence. It's the fiat of a petty dictator.

  10. #10
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    You are exactly right. The womans rights were violated. I'm sure that she had gone thru a metal detecter before she passed into the court room. So security wasn't the issue. It was just the judge's bias and unprofessional attitude toward the woman and her religion.

  11. #11
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie
    It's not an I.D issue.. It's about the arbitrariness of a judge who decides the merits of cases before him based on the facial expressions of the witnesses. This isn't juris prudence. It's the fiat of a petty dictator.
    wait what??? what is the connection between this and the yamekah post???

    a yamekah does not cover you face and mask your expressions, a veil does. how and why are you trying to make this another one of your anti-jew/israel posts???

  12. #12
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    i absolutely love it...keep telling us you arent against jews, just the israelis krusty. not only do you talk smack against jewish AMERICANS who contribute money to US reps, now a jew wearing a yamekah enters your hate target.

    if you dont like our country being "run by jews" like you think, get the phuck out...

  13. #13
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie
    It's not an I.D issue.. It's about the arbitrariness of a judge who decides the merits of cases before him based on the facial expressions of the witnesses. This isn't juris prudence. It's the fiat of a petty dictator.

    Absolutely right...

    This scumbag has ruined this womans life, at least temporarily, because he COULD. Period. He recognized an opportunity to punish this woman for being of a certain faith, and gleefully took money from her family. Fvck him. The application of basic common sense blows away the "veil" of this political agenda. This is exactly the kind of sh!t that I hate.

  14. #14
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrone
    Absolutely right...

    This scumbag has ruined this womans life, at least temporarily, because he COULD. Period. He recognized an opportunity to punish this woman for being of a certain faith, and gleefully took money from her family. Fvck him. The application of basic common sense blows away the "veil" of this political agenda. This is exactly the kind of sh!t that I hate.
    its hard to tell. claims court judges are all about evaluating the people before them.

    i think its absolutely ridiculous for any of you to say these things without knowing the judge, the plaintiff, the defendant, or anything else concerned with the case. claims court cases are not just about facts, believe it or not...

  15. #15
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorker
    i absolutely love it...keep telling us you arent against jews, just the israelis krusty. not only do you talk smack against jewish AMERICANS who contribute money to US reps, now a jew wearing a yamekah enters your hate target.

    if you dont like our country being "run by jews" like you think, get the phuck out...
    Uhh.. Excuse me, Wanker my lad. But this is my country. It was my father's country, my grand father's country and my great great great grandfather's country. One of them was a delegate to The Continental Congress. So you get the fvck out. And take your fvcking yarmulke with you. I'm not going anywhere.

  16. #16
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    Re: Muslim woman refuses to remove her veil in court, so judge tosses case

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorker
    its hard to tell. claims court judges are all about evaluating the people before them.

    i think its absolutely ridiculous for any of you to say these things without knowing the judge, the plaintiff, the defendant, or anything else concerned with the case. claims court cases are not just about facts, believe it or not...

    I think that the entire point of Lady Justice having a blindfold on is so that each person receives an objective result, each case a dispassionate review. I would argue that claims court cases ARE about facts, to the exclusion of all else.

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