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  1. #1
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    Cult Danger Evaluation

    Every Knee wanted to know what a cult was in this thread

    Here is a cult evaluation form I found online.
    For those of you who want to know if their religion is truly a cult or not, take the test and find out.
    But be warned the test will only work if you answer the questions truthfully and without bias. That will be the challenge of the test.

    Perhaps the questions in the test will give you the answer as to what a cult is, Every Knee.

    Have fun and be honest with yourselves!

    Ratings:
    1 = Low
    10 = High

    Rate each question from 1 to 10 with one being low and 10 being high. The higher the score at the end of the evaluation the more dangerous the religion being evalutated.

    1. Internal Control: Amount of internal poitical and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organisational rights for members

    2. External Control: Amount of external poitical and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.

    3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.

    4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctinal/scriptural interpretations made be leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or eternal critics and/or towards verification efforts.

    5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.

    6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amout of proselytizing; requirements for all members to bring in new ones.

    7. Front Groups: number of subisdiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.

    8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.

    9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of nontantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in circumstances of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.

    10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancment or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.

    11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communication with nin-members, including family, friends and lovers.

    13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.

    14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.

    16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible ofr personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    18. Hypocrisy: Amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political psycholigical, social, economic military, or other gain.
    Last edited by Anti_thesisofreason; 10-13-2006 at 05:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason
    Every Knee wanted to know what a cult was in this thread

    Here is a cult evaluation form I found online.
    For those of you who want to know if their religion is truly a cult or not, take the test and find out.
    But be warned the test will only work if you answer the questions truthfully and without bias. That will be the challenge of the test.

    Perhaps the questions in the test will give you the answer as to what a cult is, Every Knee.

    Have fun and be honest with yourselves!

    Ratings:
    1 = Low
    10 = High

    Rate each question from 1 to 10 with one being low and 10 being high. The higher the score at the end of the evaluation the more dangerous the religion being evalutated.

    1. Internal Control: Amount of internal poitical and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organisational rights for members

    2. External Control: Amount of external poitical and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.

    3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.

    4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctinal/scriptural interpretations made be leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or eternal critics and/or towards verification efforts.

    5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.

    6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amout of proselytizing; requirements for all members to bring in new ones.

    7. Front Groups: number of subisdiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.

    8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.

    9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of nontantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in circumstances of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.

    10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancment or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.

    11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communication with nin-members, including family, friends and lovers.

    13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.

    14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.

    16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible ofr personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    18. Hypocrisy: Amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political psycholigical, social, economic military, or other gain.
    Interesting list. Who came up with this list, and had himself/herself placed as an authority? Was it one person, or perhaps the government?

    This is biased against those who have strong convictions about a belief, whatever that is.
    Is that a correct view of a cult, that is, someone who strongly believes about something?

    Then, by definition, if I strongly have a belief against skinheads who hate the Jewish people...then by definition I'm my own cult. And gladly so.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Just realized something.
    Are evolutionists in their own cult?
    Or is Wicca their own cult?

  4. #4
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Interesting list. Who came up with this list, and had himself/herself placed as an authority? Was it one person, or perhaps the government?
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    This is biased against those who have strong convictions about a belief, whatever that is.
    Is that a correct view of a cult, that is, someone who strongly believes about something?
    Nope I don't think its biased, but then that makes me biased. :)
    What about one of the definitions provided by Hot Paradox at this link?

    "A cult may be defined sociologically. In this situation, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose followers are controlled by firm leadership in every aspect and dimension of their lives. Devotees are cemented together through physical and/or psychological intimidation tactics and have been cut off from friends and even family."

    I think this test runs along these lines.

    I think what the author of the test is trying to get at is the dangers inherent in a cult (as provided in the definition by HotParadox).
    The control that the leaders attempt to gain over the followers. how much self respect and personal freedom is a person willing to give up before they decide they are in a cult or have lost all control of their lives.
    When someone begins to decide what I can do, believe and feel. Who I can see and who I can marry or have sex with, etc. that becomes a danger to me.

    When a person has no control over their lives and only do what others tell them they stop being a person and start being an automaton, receiving orders and carrying them out without question.
    Giving personal power to another means you give up your own power, power over your life and yourself.

    Then, by definition, if I strongly have a belief against skinheads who hate the Jewish people...then by definition I'm my own cult. And gladly so.[/QUOTE]

    No I think this is called prejudice against skinheads, isn't it?


    You have to take the test without bias. If you don't it won't tell you anything.

  5. #5
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Just realized something.
    Are evolutionists in their own cult?
    Well, how do evolutionists fare when it comes to the test?

    3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.

    Do evolutionists claim a certain amount of infallibility?
    Not that I know of, what evolutionists claim is ideas about a theory, they don't claim that all their ideas are correct or any of their ideas are correct. They are simply ideas which are plausible to the evidence they have found.
    Nothing written in stone with evolutionists (pardon the pun).
    If anything evolutionists purposely look for failures and when they find them adjust their ideas accordingly.

    Maybe we will rate this one a 2 or 3 just incase there is some claim to infallibility that I am not aware of?

    9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of nontantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in circumstances of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.

    I would rate this a 1, low
    I don't know of any evolutionists that attempt to control or manipulate through sexual orientation or sexuality.

    12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communication with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.

    I would rate this a 1, low.
    Again I don't see evolutionists doing this either, if anything they try to maintain an open mind and look at new ideas and test them to see if they stand up or not.

    Just a few questions from the test picked randomly.
    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Or is Wicca their own cult?
    I guess it depends on the tradition and who is in control. I suppose there are people out there who use or could use Wicca in a cult like way, in an attempt to control others. And I suppose it has been done at one time or another. But, Christianity has been used in the same way by some. I'm not saying that all of Christianity is that way, I am saying that it has been misused in such a way. I don't think there is a religion out there that couldn't be used in a cult way. Look at how some Muslims are using Islam, a very good cult like usage wouldn't you say?

    But it isn't the religion that is the cult it is the way it is used that makes it a cult.

    I will have to take the test and see how my particular brand of Wicca stands up. If I can be unbiased with it that is. :)
    I will do the best I can!

  6. #6
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Great Link thanks.
    I personally believe that all organized religions are to some degree cult like.
    Destructive cults can often be defined by the degree of separation of the leadership from the followers. In destructive cults leaders often define two sets of rules. One set applies to the followers and is rigid, unyielding. The second set of rules applies only to the leaders and is subject to change at anytime to satisfy their agenda and lust for power and control.

  7. #7
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason
    Nope I don't think its biased, but then that makes me biased. :)
    What about one of the definitions provided by Hot Paradox at this link?

    "A cult may be defined sociologically. In this situation, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose followers are controlled by firm leadership in every aspect and dimension of their lives. Devotees are cemented together through physical and/or psychological intimidation tactics and have been cut off from friends and even family."

    I think this test runs along these lines.

    I think what the author of the test is trying to get at is the dangers inherent in a cult (as provided in the definition by HotParadox).
    The control that the leaders attempt to gain over the followers. how much self respect and personal freedom is a person willing to give up before they decide they are in a cult or have lost all control of their lives.
    When someone begins to decide what I can do, believe and feel. Who I can see and who I can marry or have sex with, etc. that becomes a danger to me.

    When a person has no control over their lives and only do what others tell them they stop being a person and start being an automaton, receiving orders and carrying them out without question.
    Giving personal power to another means you give up your own power, power over your life and yourself.

    Then, by definition, if I strongly have a belief against skinheads who hate the Jewish people...then by definition I'm my own cult. And gladly so.

    No I think this is called prejudice against skinheads, isn't it?

    You have to take the test without bias. If you don't it won't tell you anything.


    No problem, but if you think through some of the questions, it's most certainly biased against those who have "strong convictions" about a particular belief.

    Let me give you some examples:

    (1) Let's say your a member of a team of evolutionists out of Oxford who believe that
    (a) Evolution does NOT take into account a deity
    (b) Anyone who does NOT believe that evolution is absolutely true is a total idiot, liar and hypocrite.

    Now from there, let's say that this group strongly, strongly, STRONGLY believe that points #1 and #2 are absolutely true. THAT'S THEIR CONVICTION, their absolute doctrine.

    Now let's say that another 'evolutionist' from, say, Harvard shows up and says "You know fellas, I really would like to be part of your group, but I don't agree with your beliefs described in points #1 and #2...."
    And this Oxford group says "Nope, you're out - you're an idiot. You're outta here, pal!"

    ....would this 'Oxford' group be defined as a cult?

    (2) Let's say that you and your wife live in a really ritzy area in near Boston. You're kids friends really hate African Americans. And further, it's clear that one of your children's teachers have also loudly conveyed that they also really hate anyone who isn't "white." The teacher is a White Supremist.

    Now, later in the day, you and your wife sit your kids down, and you tell them that it's you and your wife's strongest, strongest, STRONGEST CONVICTION, YOUR FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE, that your kids friends and this one teacher is TOTALLY wrong, that all men are created equal (this is your ABSOLUTE DOCTRINE) and that they need to find new friends. Further, you also plan on going to the school board to BATTLE with this one teacher, because of your STRONG CONVICTIONS.

    Now, would you and your wife be "cultish?"

    (3) Let's say (hypothetically) that you belong to a group of Wiccans. Then one day one of your members in your clan is on local TV!
    This one member says on TV that, yes, he "confesses" that his clan (a) runs around naked at 'fellowships' (b) cut themselves with both black and white knives and (b) divorce is rampant and (c) they leave dead animals at door steps of those they hate.

    Your and your clan, your fellowship are outraged. Your leader, your clan, and yourself all agree that this one chap has to go. Has to leave the "fellowship" because of these "lies." Your leader, your clan and yourself are strongly, strongly, STRONGLY CONVICTED that this one person has to go.

    So............would your clan be a cult?

    This list is biased against groups who have a strong convictions, and also against groups that necessitate excluding those who harm their fellowship.
    Think about it, look at those points. If you want to revise the list, we can go from there.
    Last edited by EveryKnee; 10-14-2006 at 02:59 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    Great Link thanks.
    I personally believe that all organized religions are to some degree cult like.
    Destructive cults can often be defined by the degree of separation of the leadership from the followers. In destructive cults leaders often define two sets of rules. One set applies to the followers and is rigid, unyielding. The second set of rules applies only to the leaders and is subject to change at anytime to satisfy their agenda and lust for power and control.

    Let's say, hypothetically, that you're part of some antinomian group that strongly, strongly, STRONGLY believes that ...

    (1) We need to call all 'Christians' as liars, hatemongers, hypocrites, and bloodthirsty capitalists/criminals that need to be told all of these things.
    (2) your group MUST STORM THE GATES wherever 'Christians' meet...throw tomatoes, potatoes, rocks at them. To HATE these 'Christians' is your FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE.
    (3) these 'Christians' must be pursued and 'found out,' ...this is just the outward manifestation of the policy based on your inner CONVICTION.

    Now let's say that an 'outsider' comes to your group and says "You know fellas, I really would like to be part of your group, but I don't think it's okay to smash down doors and gates and personal property to yell at these.....'Christians'..."

    ...and then all the member of your group point your finger at this one poor chap and say at the same time,..."YYOOOOUUUUUUU!!!....YOU'RE ON OF THEEEEMMMMM!!!!"

    ......now.... :p ...
    would your group be considered a 'cult?'

  9. #9
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Let's say, hypothetically, that you're part of some antinomian group that strongly, strongly, STRONGLY believes that ...

    (1) We need to call all 'Christians' as liars, hatemongers, hypocrites, and bloodthirsty capitalists/criminals that need to be told all of these things.
    (2) your group MUST STORM THE GATES wherever 'Christians' meet...throw tomatoes, potatoes, rocks at them. To HATE these 'Christians' is your FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE.
    (3) these 'Christians' must be pursued and 'found out,' ...this is just the outward manifestation of the policy based on your inner CONVICTION.

    Now let's say that an 'outsider' comes to your group and says "You know fellas, I really would like to be part of your group, but I don't think it's okay to smash down doors and gates and personal property to yell at these.....'Christians'..."

    ...and then all the member of your group point your finger at this one poor chap and say at the same time,..."YYOOOOUUUUUUU!!!....YOU'RE ON OF THEEEEMMMMM!!!!"

    ......now.... :p ...
    would your group be considered a 'cult?'
    I'm not in a 'group' nor do I promote any one religious tradition.
    Interesting rant though.
    Let’s put it this way:
    In this country I see Hundreds of millions of people that claim to be Christians but very few of them follow the teachings of Christ. Instead they are brainwashed and controlled by a cabal of mental patients that pass themselves off as ‘Christian’ holy men.

  10. #10
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    No problem, but if you think through some of the questions, it's most certainly biased against those who have "strong convictions" about a particular belief.

    Let me give you some examples:

    (1) Let's say your a member of a team of evolutionists out of Oxford who believe that
    (a) Evolution does NOT take into account a deity
    (b) Anyone who does NOT believe that evolution is absolutely true is a total idiot, liar and hypocrite.

    Now from there, let's say that this group strongly, strongly, STRONGLY believe that points #1 and #2 are absolutely true. THAT'S THEIR CONVICTION, their absolute doctrine.

    Now let's say that another 'evolutionist' from, say, Harvard shows up and says "You know fellas, I really would like to be part of your group, but I don't agree with your beliefs described in points #1 and #2...."
    And this Oxford group says "Nope, you're out - you're an idiot. You're outta here, pal!"

    ....would this 'Oxford' group be defined as a cult?

    (2) Let's say that you and your wife live in a really ritzy area in near Boston. You're kids friends really hate African Americans. And further, it's clear that one of your children's teachers have also loudly conveyed that they also really hate anyone who isn't "white." The teacher is a White Supremist.

    Now, later in the day, you and your wife sit your kids down, and you tell them that it's you and your wife's strongest, strongest, STRONGEST CONVICTION, YOUR FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE, that your kids friends and this one teacher is TOTALLY wrong, that all men are created equal (this is your ABSOLUTE DOCTRINE) and that they need to find new friends. Further, you also plan on going to the school board to BATTLE with this one teacher, because of your STRONG CONVICTIONS.

    Now, would you and your wife be "cultish?"

    (3) Let's say (hypothetically) that you belong to a group of Wiccans. Then one day one of your members in your clan is on local TV!
    This one member says on TV that, yes, he "confesses" that his clan (a) runs around naked at 'fellowships' (b) cut themselves with both black and white knives and (b) divorce is rampant and (c) they leave dead animals at door steps of those they hate.

    Your and your clan, your fellowship are outraged. Your leader, your clan, and yourself all agree that this one chap has to go. Has to leave the "fellowship" because of these "lies." Your leader, your clan and yourself are strongly, strongly, STRONGLY CONVICTED that this one person has to go.

    So............would your clan be a cult?

    This list is biased against groups who have a strong convictions, and also against groups that necessitate excluding those who harm their fellowship.
    Think about it, look at those points. If you want to revise the list, we can go from there.
    Your taking one part of a whole and attempting to find the answer. Thats like putting a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle together with only one piece of the puzzle (in this case the puzzle has 18 pieces).
    In order to get the full answer to your question you have to take into account the entire test and not just one part.

    In other words you need to answer all 18 questions, in an unbiased manner, in order to get the answer your looking for. You can't answer just one question on a 100 question math test and expect to pass.

  11. #11
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    I'm not in a 'group' nor do I promote any one religious tradition.
    Interesting rant though.
    Let’s put it this way:
    In this country I see Hundreds of millions of people that claim to be Christians but very few of them follow the teachings of Christ. Instead they are brainwashed and controlled by a cabal of mental patients that pass themselves off as ‘Christian’ holy men.
    You know, I would agree with that. But not hundreds of millions.

    In the end, it'll be the Lord who does the filtering.

    Gotta go, gotta check on some relatives in Buffalo.
    Last edited by EveryKnee; 10-14-2006 at 07:03 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason
    Your taking one part of a whole and attempting to find the answer. Thats like putting a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle together with only one piece of the puzzle (in this case the puzzle has 18 pieces).
    In order to get the full answer to your question you have to take into account the entire test and not just one part.

    In other words you need to answer all 18 questions, in an unbiased manner, in order to get the answer your looking for. You can't answer just one question on a 100 question math test and expect to pass.
    I'll have to do that when I get back.

    Right now I have relatives who are stuck in Buffalo, I can't get in touch with them (snow, electricity and phone lines down). I have to find out what's going on.
    Let's touch base on this again..

  13. #13
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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    Let's say, hypothetically, that you're part of some antinomian group that strongly, strongly, STRONGLY believes that ...

    (1) We need to call all 'Christians' as liars, hatemongers, hypocrites, and bloodthirsty capitalists/criminals that need to be told all of these things.
    (2) your group MUST STORM THE GATES wherever 'Christians' meet...throw tomatoes, potatoes, rocks at them. To HATE these 'Christians' is your FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINE.
    (3) these 'Christians' must be pursued and 'found out,' ...this is just the outward manifestation of the policy based on your inner CONVICTION.

    Now let's say that an 'outsider' comes to your group and says "You know fellas, I really would like to be part of your group, but I don't think it's okay to smash down doors and gates and personal property to yell at these.....'Christians'..."

    ...and then all the member of your group point your finger at this one poor chap and say at the same time,..."YYOOOOUUUUUUU!!!....YOU'RE ON OF THEEEEMMMMM!!!!"

    ......now.... :p ...
    would your group be considered a 'cult?'
    I would say before joining such a group (after all this is what the test is intended for) you put them to the test and see how they fare. If they come up with a score of , say, 180 (that would be 18, tens on the cult evaluation test) then you might want to consider looking for another group to join.

    Then again if you would really like to become a part of a group that administers to such thinking then I would think you need to do some serious soul searching.

    The test really has nothing to do with if the group is a "cult" or not. It has more to do with how potentially dangerous the group is toward people and their individuality and personal freedom.

    I really suggest you read the article that accompanies the test on this web site . It may help explain it better.

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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    I'm not in a 'group' nor do I promote any one religious tradition.
    Interesting rant though.
    Let’s put it this way:
    In this country I see Hundreds of millions of people that claim to be Christians but very few of them follow the teachings of Christ. Instead they are brainwashed and controlled by a cabal of mental patients that pass themselves off as ‘Christian’ holy men.
    I dont' know about hundreds of millions, but you make an excellent point, Phinn.

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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by EveryKnee
    I'll have to do that when I get back.

    Right now I have relatives who are stuck in Buffalo, I can't get in touch with them (snow, electricity and phone lines down). I have to find out what's going on.
    Let's touch base on this again..
    Sorry to hear about your relatives, hope all is well with them. I live about 20 miles north, we didn't get hit like north Buffalo did. At least we still have power. Many will be without power for at least another week.

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    Re: Cult Danger Evaluation

    Quote Originally Posted by HotParadox
    I dont' know about hundreds of millions, but you make an excellent point, Phinn.
    85% OF 300 Mil. total population is more than 200 mil .....anyway that's how I got the number. Seems accurate considering that most agree 85% of the US population is christian.

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