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Thread: Hr-6166

  1. #1
    Whispering wind Guest

    Hr-6166

    I was in shock when i heard it might even be passed.
    They getting this out the way so when his ass is out he wont go to jail for the **** he's done.
    I think anyone who thinks that Bush and this country are not ****ing us over for their benefit
    is just ****ing blind or just in denial.

    This has no benefits other than protecting his ass from going to jail...
    It was passed with no opposition at all from the Democrats.

    Just confirms what I already knew, there is no real seperation
    under the surface between the two parties.

    .... I do not believe in "liberal" or "conservative" OK. I know both these
    parties are a complete scam and both parties are funded by the same
    people. Therefore, I am not a "liberal" or affiliated in any way with "liberals"
    or "conservatives". These two made up illusionary things are what keeps
    everyone divided and thinking they have a choice when they don't have
    a choice. Why can't you see that? Don't tell me - because I am "just a
    liberal"? OK, whatever

    Its like a Ferrari and a Lambourghini. You drive the Ferrari for a week,
    then you drive the Lambourghini for a week, then the Ferarri for a week,
    then the Lambourghini for a week but you're always going to the SAME
    PLACE! The SAME GAS RUNS THE CARS! There is fundamentally no
    freaking difference between them! Sorry this is a ****e analogy, I am
    lost for words though, most are stuck in the fake left-right paradigm and
    it seems they always will be. they have been sold down the river along with
    most other people.

    Instead of saying (because you're a conservative) "its all liberal BS" why
    don't you just say "aaaah, some investigative research" done by human
    beings and that you also are a human being? You're not a conservative
    and the people doing the investigating are not liberals! Its just that for them
    to be saying something contrary to what you believe must mean they are a
    liberal, because you're a conservative! No god damn it there is no such thing
    as "liberal" or "conservative" its just a clever sounding system that makes no
    sense and keeps us all in the dark by having people like you who support this
    system with tens of millions of other people who all go along with it too. I am not
    bashing Bush or the USA here, its the same in my country, as well as (I assume)
    all countries. Whats so hard about just saying "we are all humans"? Because dude,
    we ARE just "all humans". If you put labels on people, calling them "liberal" or yourself
    "conservative" then we are never going to get anywhere. Damn man, I have now totally
    abandoned politics and religion, because now, I can see right through it. If you took away
    all the labels of "christian" or "muslim" or "liberal" or "conservative" we would all be living
    in PEACE right now. Then you have liberal muslims, conservative christians, liberal christians,
    conservative muslims you see, it is all TOTAL BS and ONLY serves to keep everyone fighting
    all the time, never seeing that we are nothing more than "humans" and THAT is all we need
    to be to start re-building what humanity maybe enjoyed in centuries long forgotten before
    we introduced all this disgusting un-natural bull**** into our lives. Politics and religion is
    what has ruined humanity!

    Full War Crimes Pardon For Bush & Cohorts Hidden In Bill, HR-6166 - equal to Hitlers "Enabling Act"

    HR-6166
    It was passed something like 100 to 0, I mean, with NO opposition whatsoever,
    or maybe one person opposed it im not sure. This alone just proves that all people
    in Congress are either bought and paid for or compromised in some way.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewI0Rz2FtM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV90d...elated&search=

    How many of you Americans are even AWARE of this legislation?

    This legislation attempts to overrule all courts, is vague and above
    all would pardon Bush (making him immune) to any war crimes.

    Nixon - impeached.

    Clinton - impeached.
    Clinton was indeed impeached.... just not convicted.

    http://www.ourtimelines.com/zpcimp.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/cl...ews/238784.stm
    http://www.anncoulter.org/specials/today2.htm
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...each122098.htm

    Those are the top 4 entries of a google search, there are about 1,050,000 more.....

    How he was aquitted I'll never know.


    Bush - not impeached? WTF? How?!

    Oh well, enjoy the FEMA camps you hard working blue collar
    white American "terrorists". You're all terrorists now!

    Last edited by Whispering wind; 10-12-2006 at 07:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Yep you're right. They're all for it because in some way they've supported what's going on and are scared that if somebody different gets in office and has some beef, they could possible take them to court. It makes sense really if you were them.

  3. #3
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Dubya

    Good post , although I disagree with just about everything you've said

    Are you implying that there is no difference between conservatives and liberals ?

    then you claim that your're not a liberal but your whole thread bashes convervatives and calls them terrorists

    I'd say that clearly qualifies you as one of the "wack -pack "
    Originally posted by Americanadian
    Palin: Omit the "i" and you're left with "Pain".

  4. #4
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by franKg
    Dubya

    Good post , although I disagree with just about everything you've said

    Are you implying that there is no difference between conservatives and liberals ?

    then you claim that your're not a liberal but your whole thread bashes convervatives and calls them terrorists

    I'd say that clearly qualifies you as one of the "wack -pack "

    Just askin but do you think it's right for our leaders to absolve themselves from war crimes? And then I guess the question would be, do they feel like they needed to because they knew they had commited them or to protect themselves from a change in administration that could possibley indict them for political reasons - Or do both factors play in? It think both factors were in the back of there mind when they did this.

    I could definately understand why one would absolve themselves of war crimes, wouldn't you? But from another standpoint should we allow our leaders to absolve themselves from crimes, doesn't that take away from accountability which has definately been lacking recently? I'm really not being sarcastic but I'm curious what you think.

  5. #5
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    Re: Hr-6166

    What war crimes ?
    Originally posted by Americanadian
    Palin: Omit the "i" and you're left with "Pain".

  6. #6
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by franKg
    Dubya

    Good post , although I disagree with just about everything you've said

    Are you implying that there is no difference between conservatives and liberals ?

    then you claim that your're not a liberal but your whole thread bashes convervatives and calls them terrorists

    I'd say that clearly qualifies you as one of the "wack -pack "
    The willfully clueless posts yet another testimony to his hopeless case. If this intellectually bankrupt miscreant represents the majority of sheeple, we have to conclude that both parties rely on meat sticks like Frankie to further their secretive legislations on their road to securing complete power over their subjects. Once a meat stick, always a meat stick.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  7. #7
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by franKg
    What war crimes ?
    When you're that big (of a meat stick), they call you Mister.
    franKg - "Since God was ok with Moses, Joshua and David burning cities to the ground and killing all the civilians I think he would be ok with us splashing a little water on some terrorists."

    Dr poormouth - "Exackly;
    It's not "waterboarding", it's "extraordinary baptism""

    Quote Originally Posted by carlbenator
    As discussed in a previous thread, this IRRATIONAL HATRED for the Jews and their RIGHT to SURVIVE is one of the many PROOFS of a God, AND a Devil.

  8. #8
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by franKg
    What war crimes ?
    Don't be sarcastic, you know darn well that some people consider the torture and secret prisons war crimes. I'm not saying they are or aren't, all I am saying is should our leaders be able to absolve themselves from being prosecuted for past crimes? I could understand why they would want to do it but should it be allowed?

  9. #9
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Whisperingwind Your not alone.

  10. #10
    Whispering wind Guest

    Re: Hr-6166

    Welcome to the Fourth Reich

    Congress, Bush defile Constitution with security bill
    By Thomas C Greene in Dublin
    Published Wednesday 18th October 2006 15:53 GMT

    Comment "It is a rare occasion when a President can sign a bill that he knows will save American lives; I have that privilege this morning," US President George W Bush trilled as he consigned 200 years of judicial oversight to the scrap heap of history.

    For the bill that he signed with such evident satisfaction has relieved the federal courts of their rights and duty to hear petitions for a writ of habeas corpus, which allow prisoners to challenge their confinement under Constitutional principles.

    The new law, called the Military Commissions Act of 2006, will allow rough treatment during interrogations, so long as the President designates a practice not to be torture. But he is permitted to "interpret" international law forbidding torture to suit himself.

    The government, not the courts, will now be deciding what is cruel and inhumane treatment. Only monstrous abuse, reaching the level of a war crime, such as rape, mutilation, and the like, are expressly forbidden. And prisoners will not be granted legal counsel during interrogations.

    The law will allow hearsay evidence and even coerced testimony to be admitted at trial, so long as a judge deems it relevant and reliable. Evidence obtained through torture cannot be used but, as noted above, the government will have plenty of latitude in defining torture, and it is inevitable that testimony will be obtained through force or threats of force, and permitted at trial.

    The law empowers the military to detain any foreigner it wishes to call an unlawful enemy combatant. And yet it fails to address the thousands of prisoners socked away in ratholes in Iraq: it applies only to those prisoners whom the government wishes to try in its kangaroo courts - otherwise known as military commissions.

    It is the most un-American piece of legislation passed since the so-called "Patriot" Act. But it is a "vital tool" in the war on terror, the President insisted, using his stock slogan for all of the administration's various assaults upon proper judicial process and civil liberties. Massive electronic dragnets and wiretaps are a "vital tool". Warrantless searches are a "vital tool". Holding thousands of prisoners in an extra-judicial limbo is a "vital tool".

    And here we have another, rubber-stamped by a spineless Republican Congress. "With the bill I'm about to sign, the men our intelligence officials believe orchestrated the murder of nearly 3,000 innocent people will face justice," the President gushed as he prepared to make the legislation law.

    Donald Rumsfeld was there, looking quite satisfied. In a sense, he had just been given a promotion. He is now, effectively, the Supreme Court for a shadow judiciary. It is a quite illegal one, Congressional blessing or no, but the question remains: will the real Supreme Court stand up and make it right?

    about sums it all up really

  11. #11
    TheWorker Guest

    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by franKg
    Dubya

    Good post , although I disagree with just about everything you've said

    Are you implying that there is no difference between conservatives and liberals ?

    then you claim that your're not a liberal but your whole thread bashes convervatives and calls them terrorists

    I'd say that clearly qualifies you as one of the "wack -pack "
    a fine example of just what he was trying to say.

    you truly are an idiot. go back to cleaning ur gun

  12. #12
    Whispering wind Guest

    Re: Hr-6166

    franKg You don't even deny the fake left-right system! :p

    All Govt is corrupt..you know it, I know it...I guess they know we know that they are corrupt and just dont give a ****, and they know we know they know we know they dont give a **** about it..they hide all kinds of bull**** stuff in our laws now..they could be voting on whatever and something about gun control or abortion or the flightless red footed booby sucker from alaska is in there...would you expect any less from some asshead in power in the government in the form it is right now...does kennedy and the patomic ring a bell, how can a guy drown a chick and get off scott free, hell the govt now the president could shotgun your entire family and walk...



    The Windsor family is closely related to the Bush family, why does it matter
    so much which country they decide to live in? Yes, I do go on about the rare
    things you can find out about the Queen, like for instance how she is the head
    of the Carlyle Group.

    If you wonder WTF is the "Carlyle Group" then watch this...

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...45816220336237

    Yep. They are in the news sometimes but I can only assume they have a bit of integrity.
    What do Americans expect non-Americans to say when their President openly says it would
    be a heck of a lot easier if he was a dictator, he keeps the Texas border wide open whilst telling
    his people that Arabs 3000 miles away are going to get them! He has a family that goes way back
    to funding Hitler and it is literally a never ending list of corruption between Boy George Bush, Clinton
    and Bush Senior... if I could defend "my" monarchy or "my" Prime Monster, I will say this - they are
    nothing like as overt about it as Bush and his administration. Yeah Tony Blair might be just as corrupt
    as Bush, the Royal family may also be as corrupt as Bush but because they manage to keep it under
    wraps most of the time, how can anyone find out what they get up to? Its different with Bush, he
    passes stupid legislation like the USA Patriot Act and HR-6166 that lawyers can take apart within 5
    minutes.

    at least in the USA you have a constitution, so then you can say "hey Bush that
    goes against the constitution and bill of rights" but dude we do not even HAVE a constitution over here
    to say that about, so Blair puts up millions of cameras in London, then what can we say? If we have
    no constitution then we cannot even complain, however immoral or illegal it is, there is nothing
    down on paper to say it is illegal!

    Prince Philip wrote in a book if he came back (re-incarnated) he would wanna come back
    as a virus to wipe out most of the people on Earth. Sheesh, I could go on all day about the
    Royal family but it isn't the Royal family that is destroying our country. In the USA you have
    people in Government, in the Bush administration and all the democrats who don't vote against
    things like the Patriot Act or HR-6166 who are just as much to blame as the republicans because
    if the democrats just all go along with it AS WELL as the republicans then dude, you live under
    a facist dictatorship, theres no other way to describe it. I blame the corrupt few in Government
    for this, not the American people as a whole. They don't even KNOW their own rights! They know
    more about the Simpsons than they do about the constitution!

    I do not even blame the American people
    for voting Bush into power because the 2000 and 2004 elections were rigged (no paper count).
    John Forbes Kerry who ran against Bush in 2004 is a member of the elite secret society "Skull
    and Bones". Both Presidential candidates admitted this in 2004 in seperate interviews with Tim
    Russert on Meet The Press. It is not theoretical OK, they admitted it THEMSELVES on TV.

    Skull and Bones was formed in the mid 1800's with the specific goal of driving the USA
    into the ground.

    I think the Monroe/Kennedy thing is a TRUE conspiracy...I think they were both murdered!
    Monroe was a goddess!

    and yes...I KNOW both sides of our government suck ass and leave the common joe, the people right down the middle of this country waiding in a freeking huge DMZ of bull**** and lies..most of us...the world over reside in the middle of the road...only to get the **** run over when one side or the other decides to throw its weight around

    You know it, I know it, the world knows it..but we dont do nothing about it...why...we are blinded by small petty differences to band together in the middle and take back OUR country, OUR world back, from the corrupt bull**** partisan politics on either side of the isle

    http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9...titled2cp4.gif
    Last edited by Whispering wind; 10-22-2006 at 10:36 AM.

  13. #13
    Whispering wind Guest

    Re: Hr-6166

    So you just call everyone a Liberal who investigates things?

    What if they are not Liberal or Conservative and in fact think that
    the whole left-right thing is out and out bull****? I for one think the whole
    left-right thing is bull****, the same as you trying to say Hitler and Stalin
    are not comparable... they both killed tens of millions of people and are
    purported to be on "opposite" sides as far as politics goes! It just shows
    how fake the whole left-right wing thing really is, but people like you seem
    to buy into it for some reason, you believe you have a choice!

    The opposite of a country that wants war, is not another country that
    wants war, it is a country that wants peace. Thats no good though, theres
    no MONEY to be made from peace.

    I guess Tim Russert asking both George W Bush and John F Kerry about
    their membership in Skull & Bones (The Order Of Death to its members)
    on "Meet The Press" is a faked video then too?

    I guess the newspaper reports about the Bushes and the Clintons going
    on vacation together are all fake? Its OK its just "liberal" propaganda,
    lets just say that, so then no one has to bother even thinking into this
    stuff. Just explain to me how someone that implicates THE LIBERALS
    along with the Conservatives can be "Liberal"? They are saying BOTH
    sides are really two sides of the same coin and its all fake. People
    don't complain or revolt as long as they assume they are free.

    So when someone says Liberals are in bed with the Conservatives and
    just "oppose" each other in the public eye then the person saying that
    is a Liberal? How do you work that out since it is Liberals they are
    accusing along with the Conservatives?

    It doesn't work, its just a null argument.

    Why don't we act normally, instead of buying into these ridiculous ideas
    that the "other" party is going to either save us or make things worse?
    No, they are not going to save us OR make things any better or worse
    than the party in control, because there is no other party. It is a one
    party system made to look like a two party system.

    Imagine a rat going down a tube then it gets to a T junction going left and right,
    but both curve round to the same trap. The rat thinks it has a choice because it
    can go left and right.

    Politics, like religion, is nothing more than a disease of the mind.




    I used to be so naive, I would think its cool to have a Government
    that takes care of everything for us. Like they think on our behalf
    almost, but I liked that about them. Turns out they are taking care
    of things a little bit TOO well though. Like ripping our very souls
    away, that kinda thing.


    We live under the worst form of dictatorship, the silent type,
    the type where nearly everyone involved is paying incredible
    percentages of their wages to "the country" (but its not
    though is it) and never questioning it, or complaining to me
    just because I f**king told you about it, I get called a theorist

    You know what a "theory" is really? Reality, or most people's
    version of reality, is totally based around their ego, what they
    will or wont believe, people who have a line and never cross it
    despite in the back of their mind knowing it can't possibly NOT
    be true because its all documented. OMG ppl have a LINE they
    don't cross, thats the first obstacle, forget the line OK just cross
    it before its too late! otherwise you'll be frogmarched to a FEMA
    camp for not paying your electric bill or something as trivial,
    whilst the real terrorists roam free, put up to it by... the USA
    and UK Govermnents no less.

    I think inevitibly things will turn nasty in the USA at some point,
    a civil war. Between whom and whom I am not sure but take the
    toll roads the King of Spain is building in your country... something
    like 90% of people disagreed with those toll roads and yet they are
    still building them? That is a dictatorship. 90% of people disagree with
    RFID chips in your licence plates but they still go ahead and do it. That
    is a dictatorship. It is the very definition of a dictatorship!

    Look at how good it was when Government first started in the USA, theres
    no way the Government back then would dare to disobey the public, never
    mind totally go against their wishes. These days it is the other way around,
    theres no way the public now would dare to disobey the Government. Its just
    pathetic. I often think, but why doesn't anyone ever try to do something, but
    then think, they will, its called "a revolution" or a "civil war". Things cannot
    go on the way they are for much longer. Your Government (both parties/sides) is treating you all
    like a bunch of slaves.

    the US Congress has just passed a law
    that allows the President to arrest , incarcerate and torture ANYBODY he
    pleases , without charging them of anything , NO TRIAL , NO RIGHT TO A LAWYER ,
    NO APPEAL , hell, your not even allowed to know WHY you are being placed in a camp.

    I like the way you guys totally ignore the FACT that Hugo Chavez was ELECTED IN A
    FAIR (internationally monitored) election , that he wasn't GIVEN the victory by a
    supreme court appointed by his DAD who decided to STOP COUNTING THE VOTES
    and he didnt need the help of his sponsors , the vote-machine industry, to WIN , fair and square.

    So america is a free place ? your allowed to wear what you want ??
    why is it that people are being sent home from school for wearing anti- Bush-war t-shirts?
    Why are the NSA tapping your phones ? why where more than 250.000 votes NOT COUNTED
    in the latest presidential election ? and thats just in OHIO !!!
    Is the professor at Princeton University who HACKED A DIEBOLD VOTE-MACHINE just a
    liberal ? are you a liberal if you believe ALL votes must be COUNTED ? or if you
    think there should be a paper-trail ??

    Most of you would have felt at home in Stalins USSR , there was NO questioning of the beloved country ,
    the dear leader or the party-line there either.
    Stalin understood about elections :
    "It doesn't matter how people vote,what matters is who is counting"

    And by the way : America wasn't "created" or "given" to you guys, you STOLE it
    from the people who already lived there , damn near exterminating them in the process.
    The dirty jobs mostly went to African slaves , Chinese "immigrants" and other poor people.

    I don't care what country people think is "theirs"

    I dont realy care about
    "countrys". I guess that makes me a flaming liberal , but I dont know what it makes all the
    nice God-fearing non-liberal conservatives who are "supporting their country" by moving all
    the jobs to slave-labor camps in China ?? The ones who "loose" YOUR pension-funds
    at the Wall Street casino.

    Free market my ass , how are you supposed to compete with Government-provided
    slave-labor ?
    I'm looking forward to the day when the US cares about the "freedoms" of the Chinese people
    the same way you claim to do about the Iraqis "freedoms".
    Or maybe not since it seems that your way of setting people free is to KILL them , torture them,
    send them to Gitmo or RAPE CHILDREN in front of their relatives.
    Guess THAT will teach them to be free and love "your country".
    The US Congress just passed a law that allows the President
    to have ANYBODY arrested , detained , "questioned" , spied upon,
    tortured or KILLED AS HE SEES FIT without warrant of ANY kind!!
    A legal aide to Bush was asked if it was OK to CRUSH THE TESTICLES of a child
    in front of his "terrorist" parents and said "YES" !!

    Sorry , but I don't feel like getting closer together with people like that
    OR their voters for that matter.
    And even though Bush's approval rating is in the 30's , 60% of americans STILL
    believe Iraq was behind 911 and Tim Osman.
    And all the RACIST bull**** we have to tolerate every time those yanks get proud of their
    country and start to "defend" it ,makes me wanna PUKE in buckets!!
    So does the FACT that more often than not they don't know ANYTHING FACTUAL
    about the subject they "discuss".
    Even Hitlers written down plans were not as draconian and look
    how he abused those "laws".

    Doesn't anyone realise, this legislation is there for WHEN the next
    big thing happens, like perhaps a biological attack? Then everyone
    gets shepherded into the FEMA camps, which were built ages ago,
    by Penis Cheneys company. Can't people SEE THE SCAM? They are
    right now passing legislation, without any opposition whatsoever
    from the Demoncrats, to just do as they please. The legislation
    classes people as guilty until proven innocent (it says that) and
    you're a terrorist if you so much as shout at a politician! So in reality,
    you don't really have to do ANYTHING WRONG OR ILLEGAL to be
    thrown in one of those camps. Look at how the police are continually
    being fused with the military. The military is not even allowed to get
    involved with American citizens on its own soil and yet they just do it.
    90% of people don't want toll roads but they are doing it. This IS what
    a dictatorship IS.

    "sheesh you know what, if I lived in the US I would
    have emigrated long ago" and that was months ago - now more stupid
    legislation has been passed, its getting SO blatent now, even the most
    naive person must be getting slightly worried. If patriotic people want to
    continue to live under those conditions then they are free to do so but if
    I lived in the US I would say "right, f**k patriotism im outta here".

    Would you stay in a building that is on fire?

    That new legislation reminds me of the reclaimation in V for Vendetta.

  14. #14
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispering wind
    "sheesh you know what, if I lived in the US I would
    have emigrated long ago" and that was months ago - now more stupid
    legislation has been passed, its getting SO blatent now, even the most
    naive person must be getting slightly worried. If patriotic people want to
    continue to live under those conditions then they are free to do so but if
    I lived in the US I would say "right, f**k patriotism im outta here".

    Would you stay in a building that is on fire?
    But where do you GO when the whole city is on fire?

    England might be a nice change. Yeah, right.

  15. #15
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    Re: Hr-6166

    franKg You don't even deny the fake left-right system!

    All Govt is corrupt..you know it, I know it...I guess they know we know that they are corrupt and just dont give a ****, and they know we know they know we know they dont give a **** about it..they hide all kinds of bull**** stuff in our laws now

    http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/chart.htm

    This chart shows how Skull&Bones and Carlyle Group funds money reaches fx. Noam Cromsky. I guess he do not know;-)

  16. #16
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    Re: Hr-6166

    Or maybe not since it seems that your way of setting people free is to KILL them , torture them,
    send them to Gitmo or RAPE CHILDREN in front of their relatives.
    Guess THAT will teach them to be free and love "your country".
    The US Congress just passed a law that allows the President
    to have ANYBODY arrested , detained , "questioned" , spied upon,
    tortured or KILLED AS HE SEES FIT without warrant of ANY kind!!
    A legal aide to Bush was asked if it was OK to CRUSH THE TESTICLES of a child
    in front of his "terrorist" parents and said "YES" !!


    Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Child Rape Photos

    http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14864
    By Greg Mitchell, http://www.editorandpublisher.com

    23.october 2006

    NEW YORK A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of "rape and murder" and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were "blatantly sadistic."

    U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ordered the release of certain pictures in a 50-page decision that said terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven they "do not need pretexts for their barbarism."

    The ACLU has sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of an October 2003 lawsuit demanding information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture.

    Gen. John Abizaid, commander of U.S. Central Command, said Thursday that releasing the photos would hinder his work against terrorism. "When we continue to pick at the wound and show the pictures over and over again it just creates the image--a false image--like this is the sort of stuff that is happening anew, and it's not," Abizaid said.

    The judge said, however, that "the freedoms that we champion are as important to our success in Iraq and Afghanistan as the guns and missiles with which our troops are armed."

    An ACLU release this afternoon said it was getting 70 photos and three video tapes. It also said that the government is being given 20 days to appeal.

    What is shown on the photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon has blocked from release? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images, "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe." They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

    A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of "rape and murder." Rumsfeld then commented, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

    The photos were among thousands turned over by the key "whistleblower" in the scandal, Specialist Joseph M. Darby. Just a few that were released to the press sparked the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal last year, and the video images are said to be even more shocking.

    “Today's historic ruling is a step toward ensuring that our government's leaders are held accountable for the abuse and torture that happened on their watch,” said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. “The American public has a right to know what happened in American detention centers, and how our leaders let it occur."

    One Pentagon lawyer has argued that they should not be released because they would only add to the humiliation of the prisoners. But the ACLU has said the faces of the victims can easily be "redacted."

    To get a sense of what may be shown in these images, one has to go back to press reports from when the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal was still front page news.

    This is how CNN reported it on May 8, 2004, in a typical account that day:

    "U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed Friday that videos and 'a lot more pictures' exist of the abuse of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

    "'If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse,' Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.'

    "The embattled defense secretary fielded sharp and skeptical questions from lawmakers as he testified about the growing prisoner abuse scandal. A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, sodomized with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses.

    "Charges have been brought against seven service members, and investigations into events at the prison continue.

    "Military investigators have looked into -- or are continuing to investigate -- 35 cases of alleged abuse or deaths of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to Army Secretary Les Brownlee. Two of those cases were deemed homicides, he said.

    "'The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,' Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. 'We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.'

    "A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse at the prison outside Baghdad says videotapes and photographs show naked detainees, and that groups of men were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped. Taguba also found evidence of a 'male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.'

    "Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts 'that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.'"

    The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.

    In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: "Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men ... . The women were passing messages saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.'

    "Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out."

    Judge Hellerstein said today that publication of the photographs will help to answer questions not only about the unlawful conduct of American soldiers, but about “the command structure that failed to exercise discipline over the troops, and the persons in that command structure whose failures in exercising supervision may make them culpable along with the soldiers who were court-martialed for perpetrating the wrongs.”

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Greg Mitchell (letters@editorandpublisher.com) Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All is editor of E&P.

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