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  1. #1
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    Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Something that has always fascinated me since I first read about it..Astral Projection for those of you who are not familiar with this, here are a few definitions...credits to google.com witch shows the other sources....but remember these are merely just definitions...


    The process of separating oneself (or one’s self) from the physical body in trance states in order to visit other planes, times or locations.


    When the spirit travels outside of the body either to the astral plane or another location on this plane. Also known as Out of Body Experience (OBE).

    A condition in which there is separation between the physical and etheric body. Astral projection often occurs during sleep. Some have learned to consciously do astral projection and there are instances where information has been brought back and then verified. A cord connects the physical body to the etheric or astral body. This cord is often referred to as the “Silver Cord.”

    Astral projection is a controversial interpretation of lucid dreaming (or deep meditation) as an out of body experience. Proponents maintain that their consciousness has transferred into an astral body (or "double"), which moves free of the physical body in a parallel world known as the astral plane. This concept is associated with the occult and the New Age movement, and is not accepted by the majority of the scientific community.

    ......

    Dreams are fascinating occurrences and I hope that in my lifetime, research will lead to a new understanding of Dreams(and maybe even video recording of dreams)... I have had my fair share of Lucid Dreams, especially when I was younger and I have been practicing Dream Recall and its going quite well....anyhow, if anyone is interested in discussing such a topic I feel this is the right forums for them to be in, as I believe the Astral Planes are indeed real and it has something to do with what we call 'afterlife'...so there we have it...lets talk? shall we?

  2. #2
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Well, I'm happy to play devil's advocate. I'm certainly very skeptical, personally I believe its a psychological phenomena, but I'll admit its the sort of thing that I would like to be true.

  3. #3
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    whether they are psychological or not dreams can be powerful influences on us.
    I had a dream once that foretold (about two weeks before) the death of my grandmother. Creepy if you ask me.


    OBE's have always fascinated me also.

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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Oh absolutely. I often experience.... sensations I suppose you could say. Its as if I know something about someone but I can't explain why, not something specific, I just kind of get feelings... hard to explain. Sometimes it'll happen when I first meet someone, sometimes when I know someone well, often not at all. For example, several times i've met someone thats nice, friendly etc... and yet I've just known that there's something wrong, even though I can't explain why.

    Anyway, what I think is happening is that my subconciousness is picking up on something I'm not aware of. Body language, tone of voice, pheremones?, who knows, and that's why I get these unexplainable feelings. I don't think its anything supernatural, but it can certainly be weird.

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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    I read an interesting article about OBE's. I probably won't do it justice but I'll try to explain the gist of it.

    We think that we observe the world around us directly, but really we don't. Out eyes take sensory information, convert it into electrical signals, and send it to the brain. The brain takes two images, turns it into one, uses a whole lot of tricks to give us 3D vision, and then thats what we see. The same sort of thing applies to all our sense, and so we are sort of living in a virtual world, constructed inside our brains.

    Now what happens with OBE's is that our brains get confused. Instead of putting our perspective at the center of this world, they put us somewhere else, and hence we have an out of body experience, even to the extent that we can look back and see ourselves.

  6. #6
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    I belong to a group of Analysts and Councillers: a Carl Jung organization.
    Many presentations/talks and workshops are conducted, usually once a
    month. Then there are seperate and aside groups that meet to study,
    consider, discuss specialized psychic areas.
    One that I belonged to for a while was a dream group. I attended and
    particpated out of curosity. Some others had some very serious life
    issues that they were facing, dealing with.
    It was required of EACH person, when we met once, each week, to
    bring a written account of what the individual considered an "interesting"
    or "significant".
    I had some very interesting, involved and lucid dreams. I don't recall
    now what signifihance was mentioned, given to them. However, dreams
    contain, to a very great extent symbolic images. Usually, how the dream
    seemed to have unfolded and was related at "face value" is altogether
    different then what the material really depicted - to understand this:
    keep in mind; "symbolic". In this sense, for instance: a house object
    is one's physical body, as well as a car, depending upon the circum-
    stances. Meaning, if what is happening at the time, included in the
    ongoing material is the image of a house; that is one's person for
    that scence. Otherwise, containg a car, that is one's person.
    When I dream, I sometimes dream in vivid colors. Other times I dream
    in black and white. Typically, it seems there are always at least two
    individuals present, both which are some aspect of myself: I think one
    the physic, the other the spirit. I can see one, the other I am just
    always aware of "its'" presence.
    I almost always cannot identify persons in my dreams with real life
    aquaintances or familiars. Sometimes I can, but rarely. Usually when
    I do recognize the individuals persona, their physical features are NOT
    the same as the actual person I know in conscious life.
    As for esoteric considerations, such as Astral Travel, etc. that is another
    thing. I will wait and see what others have to say about that.
    While on the subject: how many people have known, or presently know
    at least one person that is a habitual sleep walker? WHat idea, opinions
    does anyone have regarding this. I have had such experience and it is
    really uncanny to deal with, I must say.
    When I was with group, never thought to bring this up for discussion.
    Also, another thing to work with is "Active Imagination" - a very interesting
    area of physic study, research. Also, the individuals that perform hands
    on healing and hand surgery. I knew of a very well known Surgeon that
    virtually quit a very sucessful practice in the U.S. and went to Central
    America to study and work with such an individual. He gave a talk to our
    group and Seemed to come across as very sane, sober, serious, lucid
    and sincere.

  7. #7
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    I have no doubt that dreams are a reflection of sub-concious processes, at least some of them. I read a good book a while back "Up From Dragons: The evolution of human intelligence" a follow up to a Carl Sagan book published 3 decades earlier. If your interested in the topic I can highly recommend it. Not only is written by a well published neroscientist, it is also very entertaining.

    Anyway, he believed that during REM, when our dreams occur, our 'conciousness' (for lack of a better word) is controlled by our brain stem. The brain stem is the oldest part of our brain, and a part we share with reptiles. It has been shown that during REM several things occur.
    - Our brain stores our long term memories
    - When people report dreaming, the part of the brain responsible for sight is also activated
    - The author believed that during REM the brain stem takes over control of the body
    - During REM we stop regulating our body temperature, ie. we are cold blooded.
    - People sleep walking display many characteristics of reptile behaviour
    - There were other cool things but its been years since I read the book and I can't remember

    Anyway, the idea was that our brains are busy storing our memories, and for some reason our conciousness gets activated, except in a strange way. Because of this, we become aware of what is being stored in our long term memory, and it is this that causes dreams.

  8. #8
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    I have had an interest in this subject for many years. My focus was on how directed dream states or creative visualization can be used in the healing process.
    This is one book I can highly recommend for anyone who is interested in the subject.


    Imagery in Healing: Shamanism and Modern Medicine
    by Jeanne Achterberg
    http://www.amazon.com/Imagery-Healin...e=UTF8&s=books

    From a review at Amazon.com:
    This author successfully combines traditional scientific scholarship with an open-minded approach to complementary modes of healing such as shamanism, visualization, and energy work. She provides the experimental evidence that explains how images we hold in our minds really do effect changes on the physical level--it has to do with how the "imaging" part of the brain connects to brain structures which regulate hormones and the immune system. There is also a fascinating section on the wise-women healers of Europe and how they were persecuted for practicing medicine which went against established medical practice as well as against the Church. It seems the ancient healers were on to something that became suppressed, and which is now being rediscovered by scholars as well as healing practitioners.......The author is professor of psychology at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology. Thus, she knows well how to use reductionist scientific methods as a tool while still seeing the possibilities lying beyond reductionism in the transpersonal plane.

    Jeanne Achterberg worked with burn patients. She found meditation or directed dream states could be very useful in preparing patients for the very lengthy and painful process of healing that many burn victims must endure to survive.
    This work is one of the few that I know of that takes a relatively scientific approach to the subject, expanding a bit on the field of stress management.

  9. #9
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    The author is professor of psychology at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology. Thus, she knows well how to use reductionist scientific methods
    Lol. Sorry, couldn't help laughing at that. (Otherwise the book sounds interesting)

  10. #10
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza
    Lol. Sorry, couldn't help laughing at that. (Otherwise the book sounds interesting)
    Yeah, psycho-babble if you ask me. Don't judge the book on this one review though. I only included it to save time and provide an overview. Since I haven't read it in about 15 years I would be disingenous for me to review it myself. I do plan to revist this book soon it is very insightful.
    Also at Amazon you can read a excerpt , I found pages 25-26 at the site.

  11. #11
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    But what about dreams that foretell something, like when I had a dream that told of my grandmothers death? The dream happened about two weeks before she died.
    How can that be a subconcious thing?

    also, when I was younger I had a partial?? OBE. It took me by surprise and I "came out of it" pretty quick once I knew what was happening.

  12. #12
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason
    But what about dreams that foretell something, like when I had a dream that told of my grandmothers death? The dream happened about two weeks before she died.
    How can that be a subconcious thing?

    also, when I was younger I had a partial?? OBE. It took me by surprise and I "came out of it" pretty quick once I knew what was happening.
    dreaming is typically OBE.
    While one is asleep, they are of course "unconscious". THis mostly means
    other than what occurs in the obvious "awake" state that the brain/mind
    filtering criteria/material is shut off. While we are awake and obseving, our
    Brain/Mind is constantly busy discerning, qualifying and organizing/prioritizing
    things. Much of this is unecessary and not useful. But then, it is the "human
    condition" :rolleyes:
    "Asleep" actually is "unconscious". The Unconscious mind KNOWS ALL and
    cannot be deceived, misled. In it is all of our personal content as well
    as material from the human collective unconscious as well as other material
    really and probably yet to be identified, understood.
    I am a certified hypnotherapist and have conducted hypnosis sessions
    to do research and investigation. In Hypnosis, which is the proper terminology
    for the state, the unconscious mind is accessed. It is very interesting what
    arises, is made known in those sessions.
    For instance: I am curious regarding socalled "past lives"; where one
    supposedly lived prior to this life. Working with one subject in this regard
    the material that was revealed gave me the impression that whatever the
    entity was it was not human and did not live on this earth in that time.
    I only did one, so no further knowledge.
    In another, with a woman, she revealed she had left that previoous life
    as a consequence of being hung as a witch.
    There is a LOT that we don't know. Considering that a great deal of
    our human energy, resources, time and money have been squandered
    fighting wars, building prisons and establishing and maintaing the court
    and political systems, the importan information regarding who and what
    we humans REALLY are, our true abiliies and powers has all been let go
    and wanting.
    WHen the day comes that we place more value on humanity and the quality
    of life, including compassion and kindness and place putting a money
    price tag on the worth and value of everything somewhere around number
    twenty on the list, then we will commence to truly evolve.
    As for "intuitive feelings-messages" there again, there is at work powers
    and facualities that are with us all right now, that much of the time, on
    a conscious level we ignore, deride or have intentionally shut down as
    we deny these abilities. Some people don't; they don't listen to the
    ideas and opinions of others.
    I watch a program on Court TV called "Psychic Detectives". An amazing
    amount of previously unsolved criminal cases are solved using Psychics.
    Ther abilites could be termed uncanny, fantastic. But then, they are just
    doing what comes naturally!
    Children are more open psychicaly as they have not been as yet conditioned
    to be shut down as we becomeras adults, if we choose to allow this to
    happen.

  13. #13
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti_thesisofreason
    But what about dreams that foretell something, like when I had a dream that told of my grandmothers death? The dream happened about two weeks before she died.
    How can that be a subconcious thing?

    also, when I was younger I had a partial?? OBE. It took me by surprise and I "came out of it" pretty quick once I knew what was happening.
    Learning about Altered States of Consciousness is a huge subject. I’m not really qualified has a professional on any level to speak with confidence on the discipline but I can give you a few starting points to pursue further study.

    Your post seems to define an interest in the concept of The Universal Mind.

    The Universal Mind:
    http://www.sakara.net/Mind.html

    I don’t completely agree with the definition outlined at this site but it provides a basis for understanding a concept that is difficult to define in language. In this case the language of the conscience mind, speech, text, visual presentations, music and even non verbal communication that we use consciously or unconsciously everyday but readily understand.
    My believe is that every human being is born with an inherited roadmap or catalogue of knowledge. Some examples, certain sounds like the buzzing of bees are universally distressing. This is true regardless of your culture or language or any learned experience.
    It is often used as an example to show that there is a wealth of knowledge that is hardwired in our brains.
    The Fear of falling is another inherited trait. There are probably thousands of these inherited traits that have yet to be identified but we are aware of them deep in the subconscious mind there seems to be a common ‘universal’ knowledge base.
    Add to that that there may also be an individual set or sets of less common knowledge and traits that are particular to your genetic profile.
    When you say you had a dream about your grandmother’s death there may be some common sense explanations combined with less common information that lead to this conclusion.
    For one thing she is old and likely to die since her life has run it’s course. Then you may be aware of your family’s medical history and have a reasonable expectation of her life expectancy. In recent visits to your grandmother or in conversation with her you may have picked up on subtle clues about her state of health that you are not consciously aware of.
    All this information is being processed and compared over time even though you are not consciously aware of the process. Then one day the realization comes over you, your subconscious communicates to you conscious mind a reasonable conclusion based on all of this information. In your case this awareness came to you in a dream.


    More on this subject:

    Deepak Chopra, M.D
    http://www.randomhouse.com/features/chopra/

    DEEPAK CHOPRA, M.D. Director of Educational Programs and co-Founder of the Chopra Center for Wellbeing in Carlsbad, California.
    http://www.chopra.com/3.html

    I happen to like Dr. Chopra and have heard some of his lectures before he was charging huge fees. Now I tend to take what he says with a grain of salt. Like so many new age gurus he has used his popularity to build a dynasty of sorts and has become a trademark, a packaged product.
    Despite this Dr. Chopra has a lot of good information to offer and in his earlier works he draws some very interesting conclusions, comparing knowledge of shamanism, meditation and insights into the “Universal Mind”* to new scientific findings.
    [* I’m not sure if Dr. Chopra actually uses this phrase though.]

    I have also read several books by Andrew Weil and can highly recommend his works.
    Books
    Andrew Weil

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...808833-3615226




    He’s an easy read and you may find this one of interest though I have not read it yet.


    Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious: The Healer (Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious, V. 2) (Hardcover)
    http://www.amazon.com/Archetypes-Col...e=UTF8&s=books

    This book by Andrew Weil is excellent.
    Marriage of the Sun and the Moon (Paperback)
    by Andrew Weil
    http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Sun-M...e=UTF8&s=books


    Also on the subject of shamanism and the Universal Mind this is one of the best of hundreds on the subject.
    The Way of the Shaman (Paperback)
    by Michael Harner
    http://www.amazon.com/Way-Shaman-Mic.../dp/0062503731
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 10-11-2006 at 06:03 PM.

  14. #14
    coontie is offline Vashudeva; Ferryman - doing the work... User Rank
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    Re: Astral Projection/Dreams/Lucid Dreams

    But then... it is always the habit to easily rationalize other possibilities away
    based on acceptable social ideas and norms. That is one reason so many
    are so predictable and so easily manipulated. They let other people decide
    what is and what is not. Any ideas of conepts that arise within their
    consciouness, from the sub-conscious is just allowed to wither on the
    vine.

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