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  1. #1
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    Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer

    In my watching some of these MLM debates and participating here and there I have seen mirror images of MLM's with different products and different compensation programs, all basically the same with different names. It is almost fun to read the posts by the "pro" MLM'ers, so often the same excuses or non-response responses. There is one term that pops up ever so often and for some reason it raised the hair on the back of my neck. That term? "Dream Stealer". It always referred to an "outsider". Someone who doesn't "understand" and who wants to steal "the" dream. Someone outside of "the group" or maybe better THE CULT.

    In doing some research I discovered the web site Pyramid Scheme Alert. On this web site I found a book, a book that you can download for free, Merchants of Deception written by a former key player at Amway. Just reading the recommendations at the start of the book will scare the hell out of you.

    A few months after I quit the Amway business my wife filed for divorce because I had suddenly become a ‘dream stealer’ and a ‘loser.’
    Merchants of Deception is a must read! It reveals the inner
    workings of one of the largest privately held companies in the world, whose distributor force has used deceit and mind control techniques to ensnare millions of people around the world. Cult mind control techniques are not only used in religious groups - they have entered the world of business - and everyone must become aware of it, or risk the consequences.

    “Misconceptions abound about people who join groups-- but Amway? Why, this group is main stream, these are people just like us--wanting a better life, sacrificing family-time to make just a little more money. From Jonestown to Heaven’s Gate we have found comfort in believing, ‘Those folks are a bunch of nuts-- Thank God I’m not like them!’

    Eric Scheibeler’s chilling portrayal of life inside a professed money making machine will convince anyone who ever said, ‘That could never happen to me’, to think again-- It can happen to the best of us.”

    DEBORAH LAYTON
    Author of Seductive Poison, A Jonestown Survivors Story of Life and Death in the Peoples Temple.
    In order to succeed at Amway, one must first be deceived, then maintain a high level of deception (with the assistance of cultish control mechanisms), and finally go about deceiving others.
    As a mental health professional who works with people in cults and an ex-cult member myself (6 years in Scientology), I have to say that Eric Scheibeler has done a masterful job at illustrating, in this compelling book, how certain business groups can have the very same cultic dynamics as the more well-known religious cults.
    Read this free book Merchants of Deception! If you ever hear anyone in your MLM or who is trying to recruit you into an MLM use the term "DREAM STEALER" tell them you have to use the bathroom and crawl out the window if necessary but run for your life!
    Last edited by rustupid; 09-17-2006 at 05:20 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by rustupid

    Read this free book Merchants of Deception! If you ever hear anyone in your MLM or who is trying to recruit you into an MLM use the term "DREAM STEALER" tell them you have to use the bathroom and crawl out the window if necessary but run for your life!

    LOL, where was this book 7 years ago when I first heard that expression?

    :D

  3. #3
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    I loved the term 'dream stealer' the first time I came aross it (probably on these boards), and when I was accused of being one, I had to add it to my profile.

    Yup, me, a complete stranger, wishes to 'steal your dream' away from you. I lie awake nights gnashing my teeth at all the people who are making their fortunes in MLM ;) . What to do? The only response left open to me - I have to steal their dreams.

    PS. I've got bags full of stolen dreams - anyone want to buy them off me? :D
    -Scammers will say anything to get your money.

  4. #4
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robot37
    I loved the term 'dream stealer' the first time I came aross it (probably on these boards), and when I was accused of being one, I had to add it to my profile.

    Yup, me, a complete stranger, wishes to 'steal your dream' away from you. I lie awake nights gnashing my teeth at all the people who are making their fortunes in MLM ;) . What to do? The only response left open to me - I have to steal their dreams.

    PS. I've got bags full of stolen dreams - anyone want to buy them off me? :D
    How much if I recruit people to sell the stolen dreams you have?

  5. #5
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by rustupid
    How much if I recruit people to sell the stolen dreams you have?
    I think it would probably be easier to just buy the dream cheap and then resell it for a profit. ;)

    Hell, these days people are giving away their dreams. They'll even pay you to steal it from them. :eek:

    It seems that way, at the end of the scheme they are left penniless as well as bereft of their dreams.

    Lady Mod

  6. #6
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by rustupid
    How much if I recruit people to sell the stolen dreams you have?
    Damn, shoulda seen that one coming... :D
    -Scammers will say anything to get your money.

  7. #7
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by rustupid
    How much if I recruit people to sell the stolen dreams you have?
    what if we create a 'steal it forward' strategy where we pay 3 peoples way in if they argree to do the same

  8. #8
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Quote Originally Posted by jebaroo
    what if we create a 'steal it forward' strategy where we pay 3 peoples way in if they argree to do the same

    LOL. Now THAT is original!

    Lady Mod

  9. #9
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    "worship the owners like Gods"

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseylamb
    Neways International from Utah is a $600 million per year MLM Company that claims it is the only company manufacturing Toxic-Free Personal Care, Home Care and Nutritional Products. That sounds ok until you discover that some of the products they have promoted were in fact highly dangerous for e.g. HGF - Human Growth Hormone. They were fined heavily for this and had to pay back millions in commissions.
    The amazing thing is their distributors worship the owners like Gods, while all the time they are being screwed by those owners. For e.g. even when the HGH scam came to light Tom Mower was out in Dubai promoting the stuff like crazy! Ray Spots the NO 1 Distributor with over 1 million people in his group turning-over $40 million a month was terminated recently and is now suing them for "Tens-of-Millions" - about time somebody did!

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseylamb
    Tom E Mower, X Wife Leslie DeeAnn Mower and former Attorney James Thompson have been convicted on 7-Counts including Conspiracy to Defraud and Tax Evasion after an 8-day trial.

    Sentencing to take place June 21st.
    $250,000 fines (totaling nearly $2million) and up-to 5-Years in Jail is possible!

    Source - Angie Welling, Deseret Morning News.

    http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,600119681,00.html

    Anyone wish to comment?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerseylamb
    UPDATE -TOM & DEE MOWER & LAWYER OFF TO PRISON!
    UPDATE. Well, it has happened at last. Tom and Dee Mower and their lawyer James Thompson are off to prison on the 13th of November for 33-months.
    Tom and Dee were also fined heavily and ordered to pay back taxes.

    Conspiracy nuts will appreciate the significance of 13 and 33 in relation to the sentence!

  10. #10
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    You all make me laugh. ;)

  11. #11
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer continued

    In researching the similarities between MLM's and cults I ran across a story of a small cult made up of intelligent college educated people. Cults are most often religious in nature or at least that is what most people think. A cult leader or prophet can just as easily be offering "the way" to wealth and prosperity. The preaching heard at virtually every MLM meeting. I will tell you more about this small cult of well educated people later but first I offer this quote from a Ph.D who studied this cult. I urge anyone in an MLM or considering an MLM to read this and think about what it says during a meeting.

    Paul R. Martin, a Ph.D. from Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center, contends that cult mind-control renders its victims virtually unresponsible for their actions or beliefs. "The process whereby he or she was drawn into the cult has a subtle but powerful force over which he or she (has) little or no control and therefore they need not feel either guilt or shame because of their experience.

    "Under mind control a man may be persuaded to believe or do things that would have normally violated his conscience. His conscience may tell him that an action or belief is wrong, but what the cult leader has persuaded him of has so strongly influenced him that it may override his conscience. He may be led to believe that the promptings of his conscience are really of his 'lower nature,''of the flesh,' and that the mission of the group is of a 'higher purpose,' that the thoughts of his conscience are doubts that show lack of faith or signs of rebellion. Thus, he may still have a conscience, but through the powerful influence of the group, he has reinterpreted it, or reframed his moral outlook.
    'Most people who join cults think they're joining a good group, a moral group, a healthy group...'"
    Dream Stealers are outsiders who don't understand...

  12. #12
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer continued

    Searching SCAM.com if found a very thought provoking post by skyvoyager on the International Galleries, Inc. thread. Warning Signs of Cult Activity. This is about cults but if you are in an MLM or thinking about an MLM I urge you to read this and simply think about it during a meeting.

    1. Their leader/s claim to have special insights, talents or abilities.

    2. They believe deeply in the superior nature of their organization and in exalting their own group, leader/s and work.

    3. They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks.

    4. Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing which is mandatory and coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed.

    5. There is great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members become dominated by the group's activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves (mind control).

    6. Constant and repetitious teaching on "how to succeed" and "being obedient to leadership/ group". Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.

    7. Members and leader/s may proclaim they have no class distinction and that they are all equal.

    8. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, structure, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.

    9. Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of recruiting new members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their "welfare". They may be encouraged or required to deliberately "lie" (i.e. "heavenly deception") in order to achieve their goals.

    10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may
    be met with threats and/or intimidation. Members may have taken oaths of loyalty or have signed a "covenant" and feel threatened by speaking out.

    11. ABUSE OF FINANCES: Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

    12. "US vs. THEM" MENTALITY: Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened" etc. Their enemies may now include family and former friends; governments; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

    13. PARANOIA - WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED: Anything negative said about the group, whether justified or not, it is regarded as "persecution". Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the true "enlightened" one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are "the only ones who are right".

    14. SOCIAL DISORIENTATION: They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naive about life in general.
    Dream Stealers are outsiders who don't understand...

  13. #13
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    This thread is giving me acid reflux! :eek:

  14. #14
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer continued

    Here is another post by skyvoyager, "Rags-to-riches... back to rags (thanks to IGI)?" that I found here on Scam. This is another example of someone involved in an MLM who refuses to accept the word of outsiders, Dream Stealers, and even refuses to accept his own experience.

    "Rags-to-riches... back to rags (thanks to IGI)?"
    You may recall some of the battles we've had with pro-IGI forces over the past months. Among them was IGI artist "Jeffrey Terreson" who staunchly and repeatedly defended IGI. Despite later and later payments, he chose to believe the promises of Paul Myer. Ultimately Jeffrey went as far as to post his personal "rags-to-riches" story on the IGI blog (which I have again posted here).

    Despite the endless red flags we posted, and our constant drumbeat warning the inevitable collapse of IGI, Mr. Terreson and others like him felt compelled to repeatedly step forward and defend IGI. To a person, these people implored us to just "cut IGI some slack... stay the course... give them the benefit of the doubt" etc. To a person, these people believed that IGI was just going through a slump... was the victim of bad press... that given a fair chance IGI could rebuild and rise again.

    What fascinates me is how someone becomes so deluded.. so brainwashed... so personally invested and unalterably committed to the notion that "surely I am right about this." Despite the best efforts of others to warn them these people cannot (or will not) see the disaster that lies just ahead.

    In my book this proves the sort of cultish manipulation that runs rampant throughout the entire MLM industry!!! Just as in any cult, naysayers and doubters are reviled, ridiculed, shunned, branded with lables like "dream stealers" etc. Most of all, the members are PROGRAMMED to defend the cult leader and mindlessly parrot whatever "spin" he/she puts on the latest hard luck story that befalls the group.

    So what happens once the bubble bursts... what happens once the pyramid implodes... what happens once the truth comes out??? How do the legions of brinwashed followers respond?

    The pro-IGI'ers of the world must be lamenting, "Surely I am right about this!! For if I'm not... then what else could I be wrong about?? If I was wrong about this then just how gullible am I really??? How helpless and defenseless am I???"

    "No, I MUST be right about this... for if I'm not... then I am personally responsible for spreading the very misery that has befallen me... no, no NO... I MUST be RIGHT!!!!!!!!!"

    (Jeffrey Terreson's testimonial of 12/9/05)
    "Today is Thanksgiving. For the first time in years I can embrace the meaning of that.

    Let me tell you what IGI has done for me. A few years ago I was living with my 4 children in a rented dump of a house. Broken furnace, space heaters, my studio and bedroom was a 60sq ft slanted side porch.. Friends brought me groceries. Electric /phone was turned off. My children were 4-13 years old then. They took up my time. I simply was not able to get much art done, thus no money. I had to teach tennis part time to try to make ends meet. They never met by the way. I was overwhelmed with life. The shear frustration/fear I felt kept me too depressed. To think about any of my problems took away from the kids. I believe I was wasting away from my art.

    Panic kept me up at night. Many nights. But I did not give up. I did remarry. (Someone fell in love with a depressed artist with 4 children and no money.??) So now I don't worry about the elctric being turned off. Not too long after that my dear friend told me about a new online art gallery.

    IGI. Soon I had a paid ticket to fly down to Dallas. I had 12 paintings with me . They took 11. The first month I made $500. Month after month I recived my checks. Like clockwork. They were not always big but that was ok.

    IGI is letting my art work for me. I was patient. I am glad I was. This year has been great. From the income that IGI has provided me I now have an assistant to keep the studio going while I paint. Bought $12,000 of new equipment. I am entering contest. Received an Award of Excellence in a national juried contest. Last week I was chosen to be artist of the month on an artist resource site. I am building recognition. Building value to my work.. .adding value my limited editions. I am talking to galleries about ONE man shows. I am buiding a new site to be relesed in a few months. I am working to 1-3 am every day..I mean everyday!!! You can not imagine what the income from IGI has meant. Make no mistake it took an opportunity like IGI to break me out of a viscious cycle I was in. It would of taken much longer without IGI. IGI did not draw or paint for me. What did IGI do? They jump started my career again. I am now focused. I am having success again.

    I feel so blessed. So thankful. Thankful to all of you who have purchased my art. Though we are all tierd from the recent struggles and we ceratinly have to take care of our families I want to say that IGI has also become family AND when your family needs you, you put down your own needs and pull together for the common good. That's what I am going to do. Hold on... It's my wondeful daughter Carly... I am being called in to carve the turkey. This is as real as it gets.

    What do you have to be thankful for?

    Your artist, Jeffrey Terreson"
    Dream Stealers are outsiders who don't understand...
    Last edited by rustupid; 09-28-2006 at 03:48 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer continued

    Here is a post by JPSalerno on the VMDirect/merged thread that I will call "the cult factor". JPSalerno is not an "MLM Basher" by any definition and this entire post is worth reading. The first 2 paragraphs of this post...

    I recently attended a meeting mainly designed to (in my oppinion) bolster morale and motivate affiliates. As a 'customer', I was in the minority. Mostly everyone I met was an affiliate so I felt honored to be invited. I mostly enjoyed my time at this meeting. Being in business for myself, I understand the importance of networking. From that standpoint, it was a success. It was also interesting to see how the 'other half' live. The meeting was held at a truly amazing estate owned by the daughter-in-law of Richard Kall himself. While it's not the most important thing, money (and all that it can do for one's family) is a big motivator for me. Seeing this house and meeting the people who live there, if nothing else, certainly helped to keep the flame alive.

    Unlike some of the people who have posted rather negative comments on this thread (some of them in which I agree with), I choose to take most, if not all, situations and find a positive. While I'm still undecided about this 'opportunity', despite the fact that the aforementioned meeting was a bit too drawn-out for my taste, I'm still glad I attended. I would encourange anyone -who is at least somewhat interested- to have an open-mind. MLM's get a bad rap. In my oppinion, this is largely due to the fact that most of them seem to be pushing products nobody wants or needs. On top of that, the 'cult factor' alienates certain types of personalities (like mine) that prefer there to be a seperation between work and family.
    Dream Stealers are outsiders who don't understand...

  16. #16
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    Re: Dream Stealers! Words from a Cult!

    Dream Stealer continued

    Here is another post from the VMDirect/merged thread. This one by Petev who joined and was hoping for the best. This one I'll call "a certain cult feeling"

    Before you read this I want to partially repeat a quote from Dr. Paul R. Martin who studied another cult comprised of well educated people that you will learn more about soon.

    "Under mind control a man may be persuaded to believe or do things that would have normally violated his conscience. His conscience may tell him that an action or belief is wrong, but what the cult leader has persuaded him of has so strongly influenced him that it may override his conscience...
    Now here are the words from Petev.

    No, they have not told me personaly how much they are making. You do need to bring a handfull of affiliates to make it work. And they do as well. I know that the charts on some of these people have thousands of people under them and this includes both affiliates and users of the services. For instance, if you are in the $2,000 dollar sign up and you sign up someone for $2,000 you make $400 when you sign them up and I believe it can reach as much as $800 or $900 depending on your volume. You also get commision on everything under what occurs under you including people signing up other affiliates. A real estate lady in our group sold aprox. 19 homes last year using the video capabilities and she is now making more money with VM direct/hello world than with her realestate business. I do not know if I will make any money with this co. or not. I hope to but it will not be a tragedy if I don't. Yes, there is alot of hype, cheerleading and a certain cult feeling to the whole thing- but they truly do have great products especially with what is coming out at the end of Sept. I am not embarased to be involved at all with this co., I would be uncomfortable selling fat pills or vitamins since I have no nutritional training. Like I said earlier, alot of people use the internet and the tools that they supply are very user friendly and they are the leaders in the field.
    Dream Stealers are outsiders who don't understand...

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