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  1. #1
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    Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    this us what happens when you elect a guy who has never had a job. Well, besides 'shaking down whitey'--still his lone function.

    Building a business requires courage and the ability to work with others toward mutually beneficial solutions--something obama has no concept of.

    As always, obama is the mortal enemy of everything that made the USA the most powerful and successful nation in the history of the world.



    MORE BIG GOVERNMENT SHILLING IN OBAMA'S 'YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT' SPEECH

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    by JOHN SEXTON 18 Jul 2012, 12:23 PM PDT 5 POST A COMMENT
    The President's statement about the importance of the public sector at a stop in Roanoke, VA has received a lot of attention, mostly for his comment about private sector businesses. But there's a lot more in this speech which deserves scrutiny.

    To wrap up his praise of the public sector, Obama had this to say:
    I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there...

    [E]ver since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.


    Some have noted that this line of thought is very similar to one expressed by Elizabeth Warren in a viral video clip. It's also quite similar, at least in part, to an MSNBC promo Rachel Maddow filmed to promote her "lean forward" network:

    The federal government did fund the construction of the Hoover Dam (though the work was carried out by a conglomerate of six private companies). And going back to Obama's list, it did fund the GI Bill, the moon program, and the creation of the Arpanet, precursor to the Internet. The lesson Obama seems to be drawing from this is that all the big and important things that happen in our nation stem from the government's ability to tax and spend.

    The problem is that President Obama hasn't proposed any moon shot. He isn't planning a new Hoover Dam or funding the creation of a new Internet. What he has given us is the cancellation of the manned space flight program, the regulation into extinction of coal power plants, and a string of failed government investments with names like Solyndra.
    But putting aside the particulars, Obama's speech seems spectacularly tone deaf.

    In the midst of a great recession, with Social Security already spending more than it is taking in, with Medicare racing toward a similar fate, with states deeply in the red as a result of public sector pensions and health care costs, with American cities declaring bankruptcy, with Europe on the brink of collapse from decades of big government policies, and with $15 trillion in national debt for which we have no retirement plan--in the midst of all that, Obama comes to praise big government and badmouth innovation and hard work. It's just sort of stunning, really.

    Has there ever been a man less suited for the moment than Obama is for right now?


    .
    There is not a truth existing which I fear
    or would wish unknown to the whole world."
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  2. #2
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  3. #3
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie View Post

    Ha ha ha

    What a weak and stupid argument. The fact you even take this position shows how weak minded and ignorant you are.

    As if the business owner did not pay the same taxes as everyone else in the first place. Everyone pays for those basic things provided by government. That being so, everyone starts on a level playing field, in that regard.

    The people who built business did so with their own money at risk. They put their whole lives and livelihoods on the line. They took the risk, they reap the reward. They employ people and provide jobs for the majority of the country.

    Business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes than the average worker.

    The argument being made by you and Obama, among other nincompoops, is childlike at best.

    You could also look at it the other way. Without businesses (started by business owners) there would be no economy, period. Thus no taxes to build the roads and educate people and provide security and infrastructure and all the other things gov does.

    Unless the gov just owns and runs everything.

    But then again...I think that's what ass-lappers like you and Obama want in the first place.
    Last edited by Jax74; 07-19-2012 at 12:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Ha ha ha

    What a weak and stupid argument. The fact you even take this position shows how weak minded and ignorant you are.

    As if the business owner did not pay the same taxes as everyone else in the first place. Everyone pays for those basic things provided by government. That being so, everyone starts on a level playing field, in that regard.

    The people who built business did so with their own money at risk. They put their whole lives and livelihoods on the line. They took the risk, they reap the reward. They employ people and provide jobs for the majority of the country.

    Business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes than the average worker.
    ....
    I think what dchristie is referring to is externalities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

    Business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes than the average worker.
    That is interesting.

    Do you have examples of where business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes ?

  5. #5
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawn... View Post
    I think what dchristie is referring to is externalities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality



    That is interesting.

    Do you have examples of where business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes ?
    This horse shit right here is why this site is so useless.

    The argument being made is against successful business owners. You know, the evil rich people?

    Obviously people who have a large income that is direct income from their business, not from investments, pay more in taxes than the average worker does. Not to mention all the tax revenue their business generates for the state and fed gov.

    Are you seriously that dense that you don't understand what I'm saying there?

    And it is idiotic to try and base this argument on externality. Everything in life has side effects, positive and negative. And everyone is affected by them in one way or another.

    You are grasping at straws there.
    Last edited by Jax74; 07-19-2012 at 01:33 AM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    This horse shit right here is why this site is so useless.

    The argument being made is against successful business owners. You know, the evil rich people?

    Obviously people who have a large income that is direct income from their business, not from investments, pay more in taxes than the average worker does. Not to mention all the tax revenue their business generates for the state and fed gov.

    Are you seriously that dense that you don't understand what I'm saying there?
    Well, I understand your assertion to be that owners of business, and the businesses, pay far more in taxes than the workers.

    I am wondering if you have any data concerning your statement.

  7. #7
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawn... View Post
    Well, I understand your assertion to be that owners of business, and the businesses, pay far more in taxes than the workers.

    I am wondering if you have any data concerning your statement.
    Here is some data.

    I paid over 300k in taxes last year and donated another 60k+ to charity. How much does the average worker pay on a yearly basis in taxes?

    We are talking about successful business owners, are we not? As they are the ones being portrayed as evil by idiots like Obama and Elizabeth Warren.

    You may be talking about as a part of the whole, that is not what I'm talking about. Maybe you see us as a collective, I look at people as individuals.

    This is an idiotic discussion. The direction you are headed isn't even relevant. I think I'm done wasting time talking to you as I come to this site for some laughs. Not discussions with brick walls.
    Last edited by Jax74; 07-19-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawn... View Post
    Well, I understand your assertion to be that owners of business, and the businesses, pay far more in taxes than the workers.

    I am wondering if you have any data concerning your statement.
    And what you are saying here is just twisting the argument. Nice try.

    I did not say "owners of business, and the businesses, pay far more in taxes than the workers."

    That makes it sound like I'm saying one group pays more than the other in total.

    I did say " people who have a large income that is direct income from their business, not from investments, pay more in taxes than the average worker does."

    I'm talking on an individual basis not in groups.

  9. #9
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Here is some data.

    I paid over 300k in taxes last year and donated another 60k+. How much does the average worker pay on a yearly basis in taxes?

    We are talking about successful business owners, are we not? As they are the ones being portrayed as evil by idiots like Obama and Elizabeth Warren.

    You may be talking about as a part of the whole, that is not what I'm talking about. Maybe you see us as a collective, I look at people as individuals.

    This is an idiotic discussion. The direction you are headed isn't even relevant. I think I'm done wasting time talking to you as I come to this site for some laughs. Not discussions with brick walls.
    Dang, $ 300,000 in taxes. I assume you are including State and various local taxes.

    Let me guess. Your earned income was in excess of $800,000 ?

    OK, so you don't have any data on what individual workers pay in taxes ?

  10. #10
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawn... View Post
    Dang, $ 300,000 in taxes. I assume you are including State and various local taxes.

    Let me guess. Your earned income was in excess of $800,000 ?

    OK, so you don't have any data on what individual workers pay in taxes ?

    What is your point? I'm sure there is one as silly as it may be.

    What is the average income in the United States? 35k? 50k? 70k?

    What is the average income of a successful business owner? You know, the ones we are talking about. The ones being demonized in this current debate.

    Are they demonizing the small business owner who is just scratching by? Are they out to get the guy just barely pulling in 35k in his business?

    No.

    I am talking about people who make a large amount of money.

    People with a large direct income pay more in taxes than people with a small income.

    Find me a person who made 45k last year and paid 300k in taxes.

    Do you have any data on that?

    This is boring and honestly pointless. I'm going to bed.
    Last edited by Jax74; 07-19-2012 at 02:13 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    #1 The answer to the first two questions is yes.

    #2 What is your point? I'm sure there is one as silly as it may be.

    What is the average income in the United States? 35k? 50k? 70k?

    What is the average income of a successful business owner? You know, the ones we are talking about. The ones being demonized in this current debate.

    Are they demonizing the small business owner who is just scratching by? Are they out to get the guy just barely pulling in 35k in his business?

    No.

    I am talking about people who make a large amount of money.

    People with a large direct income pay more in taxes than people with a small income.

    Find me a person who made 45k last year and paid 300k in taxes.

    Do you have any data on that?

    This is boring and honestly pointless. I'm going to bed.
    Well, as a matter fact I do: That would be zero.

    Here is some data:

    The poorest fifth of households had average income of $18,400 in 2007.
    The next-to-the bottom fifth — those with incomes between $20,500 and $34,300 in 2007 — paid an average of 10.6 percent of their incomes in federal taxes.

    Moreover, these households also pay substantial state and local taxes. Data from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy show that the poorest fifth of households paid 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2011.
    When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account, the bottom fifth of households pays about 16 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average. The second-poorest fifth pays about 21 percent.
    How are those externalities working now? Seems to me some may benefit more than others.

    ....

  12. #12
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    And it is idiotic to try and base this argument on externality. Everything in life has side effects, positive and negative. And everyone is affected by them in one way or another.

    You are grasping at straws there.
    Externalities are probably the most important issue when it comes to taxation. They are the reason that we need environmental regulations. They are the reason that we have public roads. They are extraordinarily important in economics because when externalities exist (positive or negative) the free market is no longer an efficient allocator of resources. They are the reason that Adam Smith argued for a progressive tax rate.

    You can argue over their significance, but you really can't just dismiss them. Nor is it grasping at straws to raise them as an issue.

  13. #13
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    What is your point? I'm sure there is one as silly as it may be.

    What is the average income in the United States? 35k? 50k? 70k?

    What is the average income of a successful business owner? You know, the ones we are talking about. The ones being demonized in this current debate.

    Are they demonizing the small business owner who is just scratching by? Are they out to get the guy just barely pulling in 35k in his business?

    No.

    I am talking about people who make a large amount of money.

    People with a large direct income pay more in taxes than people with a small income.

    Find me a person who made 45k last year and paid 300k in taxes.

    Do you have any data on that?

    This is boring and honestly pointless. I'm going to bed.
    what's 'YOUR' point!? you DESERVE what you HAVE according to WHAT standard of EXCELLENCE!? your a NICE SUCCESSFUL guy!? WHO cares about MONEY!? the BETTER PEOPLE among us!? i think obama is against EXTREMISM!? those who SEEK to enrich themselves at the EXPENSE of others!? GREED, now THAT to me is the HEART of the AMERICAN claim to GREATNESS as we EXPERIENCE it THRU history!? not DISREGARDING the ALTRUISM of SOME of the wealthy!? the QUESTION is can we APPLY a more ENCOMPASSING system of CARE/compensation thru a INSTITUTIONAL application, like GOV!? STOP HATING GOV, love it and support it's AIMS despite it's FEW inconsistencies and MISTAKES!? STOP FEARING it's OVERTAKING of your LIFE completely, that's just your GREED TALKING!? sure it would be IDEAL if a NATURAL system of human AGREEMENT existed and flourished but since GOV is necessary it should be USED as a REMEDY for all the human FAILURES that NATURALLY occur WITHIN reasonable BOUNDS!? which is WHY COMPROMISE is the BEST course for PROGRESS instead of CIVIL war or REVOLUTION!? after all we are a MODERN EDUCATED society capable of INTELLIGENT OVERALL decision making!? all RESISTANCE to UNDERTAKING those things OUTSIDE 1's INDIVIDUAL scope of ACTIVITY/RESPONSE-ability and APPLYING that to GOVERNED decisions for ALL is NONSENSE and CRUELTY of the HIGHEST ORDER!? no BIRD can FLY, and FLY STRATE if 1 WING is more POWERFUL than the OTHER!?: :crazy1: :judges: :
    Last edited by lexx; 07-19-2012 at 02:51 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    to make a GREAT country if you must it would seem to ME the PRIORITY is to BUILD PEOPLE not BUSINESS!? or combine the 2 in 1!? in my mind the IDEA of giving people individual control over MONEY is LUNACY of the highest order!? since we KNOW they ALL cant handle it!? i speak in principle of course!? givin human FAILINGS, freedom of CHOICE, would dictate they get what they CHOOSE!? and if only THAT was some kinda GUARANTEED protector of the finest motivations men can aspire to while MAINTAINING the net of TIMELY and SUFFICIENT charitable intervention FOR ALL!? education has to be revised to include PRACTICAL LESSONS in LIFE!? so that no extremist views are allowed to isolate themselves and PROPAGATE to the point of THREATENING levels of DISTURBANCE!? which i think is a NATURAL self regulating occurrence UNLESS made MOUNTAIN of for FUN and PROFIT!? it's called (UN) popular politics!? :crazy1: :spin2: : :
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  15. #15
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    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax74 View Post
    Ha ha ha

    What a weak and stupid argument. The fact you even take this position shows how weak minded and ignorant you are.

    As if the business owner did not pay the same taxes as everyone else in the first place. Everyone pays for those basic things provided by government. That being so, everyone starts on a level playing field, in that regard.

    The people who built business did so with their own money at risk. They put their whole lives and livelihoods on the line. They took the risk, they reap the reward. They employ people and provide jobs for the majority of the country.

    Business owners in fact pay a far larger amount in taxes than the average worker.

    The argument being made by you and Obama, among other nincompoops, is childlike at best.

    You could also look at it the other way. Without businesses (started by business owners) there would be no economy, period. Thus no taxes to build the roads and educate people and provide security and infrastructure and all the other things gov does.

    Unless the gov just owns and runs everything.

    But then again...I think that's what ass-lappers like you and Obama want in the first place.
    My..my.. Look what just slithered out of his little spider hole: Jagoff The Stalker.

    Whenever he pokes his trolling and stalking nose into a thread - it can only mean one thing: Somebody has posted some essential truth somewhere.

    That always draws this filthy little insect out because he's congenitally programmed to shit on anything that conveys or reflects any sanity.

    He thinks that everybody should get down on their hands and knees and kiss his corrupt ass. Why?

    He started some shitty little businesses at the expense of everybody else ... especially the taxpayers and wants us to thank him for doing us all a favor.

    This parasite rips everybody off by getting to deduct every fucking piece of toilet paper he uses while he's gouging all the idiots who are dumb enough to do business with his incompetent ass.

    This douche bag should pay more - a lot more. That's only fair

    He's using public facilities to enrich himself while whining about having to pay for the massively inordinate amount of resources he's allowed to suck up, exploit and despoil.

    Notice what we get when anybody asks him to back up his BS with actual data ...... That says it all.

    Piece of shit.

    .
    '
    Last edited by dchristie; 07-19-2012 at 08:02 AM.
    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
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  16. #16

    Re: Scumbag: Business Builders Didn't Build Business

    Quote Originally Posted by kazza View Post
    Externalities are probably the most important issue when it comes to taxation. They are the reason that we need environmental regulations. They are the reason that we have public roads. They are extraordinarily important in economics because when externalities exist (positive or negative) the free market is no longer an efficient allocator of resources. They are the reason that Adam Smith argued for a progressive tax rate.

    You can argue over their significance, but you really can't just dismiss them. Nor is it grasping at straws to raise them as an issue.


    The income tax should be zero

    Adam Smith did not support a progressive income tax

    http://www.therightscoop.com/levin-c...ve-income-tax/


    Misrepresenting Adam Smith
    http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2...dam-smith.html

    Taxation in proportion to revenue isn't progressive taxation, it's proportional taxation—in modern terminology, a flat tax. The quote not only isn't evidence for the claim, it's evidence against it—important evidence, since it is the first of the maxims of taxation with which Smith introduces his discussion of possible taxes.


    Not only is Smith not endorsing a progressive income tax, he isn't endorsing any sort of income tax. Reading further into the passage, he successively rejects taxes on income from capital, taxes on wages, and taxes on the income of professionals. The only income he approves of taxing is the income of government officials. What he is arguing for is a system of taxation whose effect is proportional to income, not a tax on income.

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