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  1. #1
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    Intelligent Design Challenge

    OK, with the release of my new blog, I have decided to issue a challenge to all people who support Intelligent Design and think Evolutionary theory is wrong.

    Basically, go to this article: http://shanegreenup.blogspot.com/200...nt-design.html

    and leave a comment which states or links to an argument by Intelligent Design which in any way shows a problem with Evolutionary Theory or which supports Intelligent Design over evolutionary theory without succumbing to one of the following 3 fallacies:
    1. An appeal to ignorance or incredulity
    2. An appeal to Emotion (Or here)
    3. Begging the Question
    (with linked explanations in the article)

    and I will pay the provider of those arguments US$50.

    (I reserve the right to change or update the challenge as it proceeds, please check with the article before posting as I will update it accordingly, yet won't be able to edit this post)

    Shane

  2. #2
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    ID is Creation...its just their dishonest attemp to avoid the US Supreme Court ruling.

    Kick'em when their down.

  3. #3
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Yeah it is, and the supreme court caught them and told them as much. They have nothing but nonetheless much of the public continues to follow their media bashing methods.

    It disturbes me.

  4. #4
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by aegist
    Yeah it is, and the supreme court caught them and told them as much. They have nothing but nonetheless much of the public continues to follow their media bashing methods.

    It disturbes me.
    Most of the key cheerleaders for the creationist/ID movement have gone silent or are out of action:
    Kent Hovind
    "A Pensacola evangelist who owns the defunct Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola was arrested Thursday on 58 federal charges, including failing to pay $473,818 in employee-related taxes and making threats against investigators."
    http://www.gophypocrites.com/2006/07/hyp06030.html

    The Christian Right has also changed their strategy. They are now trying to re-write the definition of science. School boards are now being presented with bizarre descriptions of biology and science that will apparently allow ID to be taught as an alt. to evolution.
    Text book labeling [with warnings concerning the validity of evolution] has also been used see Ken Miller’s vid:
    Ken Miller on evolution
    http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=12948

    Ken Miller on Intelligent Design
    http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=12767

    Fun Stuff:
    Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
    ".........there are many phenomena that cannot be explained by secular gravity alone,...."
    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

    Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
    http://www.venganza.org/
    Last edited by Phinnly Slash Buster; 08-19-2006 at 03:46 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Which brings me back to the original question though: Do the ID camp raise one valid question?
    Last edited by aegist; 08-19-2006 at 04:59 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    No but, they will be happy to trot out the usual BS...2nd Law of Thermodynamic, mis-repesenting the fossil records, errors in RD....all the usual suspects.

  7. #7
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Hey, your challenge is unfair. It reminds me the "casinos" because "the house always win".

    Intelligent design is nothing else but "creationism", thus any argument will necessary fall in at least one of the three fallacies you mentioned. The only way someone can really argue that ID really works is if HE comes here and turn water into Cabernet Sauvignon and create a playboy bunny from air. I suggest you spend your 50 U$D in margaritas. Some of the scammers that comes here to see if someone reported them can scam you.

    Kind regards

  8. #8
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phinnly Slash Buster
    Fun Stuff:
    Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
    ".........there are many phenomena that cannot be explained by secular gravity alone,...."
    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512
    BUAHAHAHA!!!

  9. #9
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Doe3001
    Hey, your challenge is unfair. It reminds me the "casinos" because "the house always win".
    How is it unfair? I think I know the truth and it is as you guys have been saying, but I don't want to just assume that I am right. Hence the willingness to actually pay supporters of ID to present a real argument. I have been unable to find one, but surely if ID is supposed to be a rival scientific theory, then there MUST be at least ONE argument which either shows how evolution is wrong or more importantly shows how ID is an alternative.

    Sticking to the laws of rational argument should go without saying, but it seems necessary to include them.

  10. #10
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Heh. I think I might take up your challenge. Not because I think ID is right, but it sounds like a fun challenge. Well, that and I'm really broke...

  11. #11
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    lol, fair enough. I added a new clause too: it has to be an argument not previously stated by an Evolutionary proponent.

    That is because it is stupid to think that a supporter of evolution would say "We need support in the fossil Record" and that doesn't seem to contradict evolutionary theory when he says it, but then the ID people say the exact same thing and act as if it is an argument against evolution.

    Actually, i'm not sure if i like that method afterall.

    See the goal here is to hear a new argument. Or an old one if it so be, but at least one that is novel and real. The suppport in the fossil records is not novel and it has been well covered. It *is* a good argument though, but I dont want to pay people for an argument which is really bloody obvious but already well covered.


    Under the original terms, i realised, people can say "There isn't enough data in the fossil records to support evolutionary theory" and it would meet the criteria and I would ahve to pay out. I would then proceed to show why although this is a good argument, it is not adequate to actually be a problem for Evolution. In fact there is far more supporting evidence in the fossil record than counter evidence, and along with that, there are a number of reasons why we can't expect EVERYTHING to be covered in the dfossil record.

    So, basically, this would be a boring argument for someone to present to me and me feel compelled to pay them $50 for on account of them meeting the criteria.

    So that argument is out :p

    But I think everything else is in. And if they end up being crappy valid arguments, then I will just have to deal with the monetary consequences.
    *shrugs*

    Shane

  12. #12
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Hah hah. I was actually just going to look for an argument put forward that commits a different logical fallicy than the ones you mentioned (wasn't going to make you pay up for that though), I think your conditions make it too easy. I'm sure I could find some nutcase fundamentalist saying "Trees are green, therefore evolution is wrong," its non-sequitor but its not one of the fallacies you listed above, and its a new argument.

  13. #13
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    LOL. OK, that just being mean :p So you think I should add clause 4 "Or any other logical fallacy"?

  14. #14
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by aegist
    LOL. OK, that just being mean :p So you think I should add clause 4 "Or any other logical fallacy"?
    Yeah, maybe any of the fallicies listed at http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

  15. #15
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Yeah I saw them. I just enver bothered mentioning them all because in my experience I have noticed that all ID arguments seem to work on those 3 primary principles.
    "I can't beleive that..."
    "How do you feel about descending from an ape..."
    "We know that God said..."

    and that seems to be about it, in various guises.

  16. #16
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    Re: Intelligent Design Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by aegist
    Which brings me back to the original question though: Do the ID camp raise one valid question?
    For amusement only.
    Funny stuff, a short visit to this site will explain why the ID nitwits lost most of their more serious challenges in the courts.
    It is apparent that these nut jobs have the IQ of your average resident in the produce aisle at Winn Dixie.
    Conclusion: aegist you will be keeping that $50.00 for a long time. These guys couldn’t construct a winning argument against a 9 year old retard in a coma.

    “If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that.”
    -Kent Hovind

    “There is definitely a conspiracy, but I don't think that it is a human conspiracy. I don't believe there is a smoke filled room where a group of men get together, and decide to teach evolution in all the schools. I believe that it is at a much higher level. I believe that it is a Satanic conspiracy. The reason these different people come to the same conclusion is not because they all met together; it is because they all work for the devil [sic]. He is their leader and they don't even know it.”
    -Kent Hovind
    http://www.kent-hovind.com/

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