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  1. #1
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    Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In History

    Courtesy of the good old USA, the only country in history to have ever used a nuclear weapon on a civilian population.

    And not only was it used on a densely populated urban area - but on a country already defeated.

    It puts all of our "terrorist" fear mongering and saber rattling against countries like Iran in a bit more realistic context..... no?

    Why wouldn't our adversaries be urgently trying to obtain nuclear weapons - given our reputation?

    The bottom line is this: We don't need to be afraid of terrorists.

    What we should be afraid of is Karma.

    You can't stop Karma with sanctions and predator drones.


    .







    Last edited by dchristie; 03-21-2012 at 08:07 AM.
    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  2. #2
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quoting from WWII for Dummies -"Over 60 million people died in WWII and of those 60 million, more were civilian than soldiers." Pages 363 and 364 give a run down with some numbers but does not offer a breakdown of the total civilian vs. soldier.

    The Soviet Union lost the most with 25 million deaths, but only about a third were combat related.

    China's death toll is incomplete but estimates are between 15 and 22 million.

    Poland had 6 million deaths including 3 million Jews, roughly 20% of its prewar population.

    Germany lost 4 million soldiers and 2 million civilians, many of them women.

    Japan had 1.2 million battle deaths and another 1.4 million soldiers listed as missing, almost 1 million civilians were killed in the bombing raids between 1944 and 1945.

    Over 1.7 million Yugoslavs and 500,000 Greeks died in the war.

    France lost 200,000 soldiers and 400,000 civilians.

    Italy lost 330,000 people.

    Hungary lost 147,000 men in combat.

    Bulgaria lost 19,000 in combat.

    Romania lost 73,000 in combat.

    Great Britain lost 264,000 soldiers and 60,000 civilians in bombing raids.

    The United States lost 292,000 soldiers.

    The Dutch lost 10,000 soldiers and 190,000 civilians.

    Australia lost 23,000 men in combat.

    Canada lost 37,000 soldiers.

    India lost 24,000 men in battle.

    New Zeland lost 10,000.

    South Africa lost 6,000.

    These totals do not include the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.
    **********
    "I have never understood why it is considered "greed" to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money"

    - Thomas Sowell
    http://www.tsowell.com/

    *********

  3. #3
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza. View Post
    Thanks for putting that into perspective, Pee Pee.

    Question,
    Of all of the innocent civillians killed in the history of mankind what is the record for the most number of people killed by one bomb, how many were killed and which country committed the slaughter?


    .
    Collateral damage. Unfortunate, but necessary when you want the war to stop and not to keep going forever.

  4. #4
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza. View Post
    Thanks for putting that into perspective, Pee Pee.

    Question,
    Of all of the innocent civillians killed in the history of mankind what is the record for the most number of people killed by one bomb, how many were killed and which country committed the slaughter?


    .
    Ah.. I get it.

    Its not about wars, aggressors, good guys, bad guys, genocide, freedom, defense, timelines or any other factors. For you and the "blame America 1st" crowd it is always about linking your hatred for America with some weird fact that no normal person thinks about.

    So, for your own self induced hatred, yes America has the record for most people killed with 1 bomb.

    For you I know this trumps 6 million Jews murdered, 25+ Million slaughtered under Stalin, the Death marches from Japan, the attack on Pearl Harbor, teh bombing of France and england that killed millions of Civilians as well... I know, this all pales in comparison for you because... America dropped the biggest bomb in history... OUTRAGE!
    **********
    "I have never understood why it is considered "greed" to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money"

    - Thomas Sowell
    http://www.tsowell.com/

    *********

  5. #5
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    Collateral damage. Unfortunate, but necessary when you want the war to stop and not to keep going forever.

    It is also outdated and does not apply any longer. In WWII he acts like we are the only ones to fight this way. EVERYONE did. This is a time before smart bombs obviously.

    As all wars are, they are brutal, cold and hearless. Going back 70 years and picking 1 Country out of all that fought that way shows his bias....
    **********
    "I have never understood why it is considered "greed" to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money"

    - Thomas Sowell
    http://www.tsowell.com/

    *********

  6. #6
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleP View Post
    Going back 70 years and picking 1 Country out of all that fought that way shows his bias....
    Definitely. Picking one country that didn't start the war and didn't really want to get involved in it until it was dragged into it.

  7. #7
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleP View Post
    It is also outdated and does not apply any longer. In WWII he acts like we are the only ones to fight this way. EVERYONE did. This is a time before smart bombs obviously.

    As all wars are, they are brutal, cold and hearless. Going back 70 years and picking 1 Country out of all that fought that way shows his bias....
    Quote Originally Posted by Finix
    Collateral damage. Unfortunate, but necessary when you want the war to stop and not to keep going forever.

    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  8. #8
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    Definitely. Picking one country that didn't start the war and didn't really want to get involved in it until it was dragged into it.
    Revisionists get bored I guess....
    **********
    "I have never understood why it is considered "greed" to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money"

    - Thomas Sowell
    http://www.tsowell.com/

    *********

  9. #9
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    I agree with DoubleP on this one.

    Seeing those pictures is heartbreaking, but at the same time I recall the Bataan Death March, how they buried Chinese prisoners alive, and practiced cannablism with POW's they had murdered.

    No country is innocent in war.

  10. #10
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    And to be fair...

    From the Nanking Massacre... clearly these people are still alive:

    http://www.pow-wwii.com/images/execution.jpg

    (The photo won't load.)

    An Australian POW about to be beheaded while on the Bataan Death March:



    In my opinion those photos are just as shocking and obscene.

  11. #11
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    ALL that violence and war is horrific and wrong on every level.
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  12. #12
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
    And to be fair...

    From the Nanking Massacre... clearly these people are still alive:

    http://www.pow-wwii.com/images/execution.jpg

    (The photo won't load.)

    An Australian POW about to be beheaded while on the Bataan Death March:



    In my opinion those photos are just as shocking and obscene.
    Well..thanks for that little exercise in moral equivalence.

    This is the favorite tactic of all the "America Is Always Right" Apologists.

    It runs the gambit of excuses from "What about Pearl Harbor" to "The Holocaust" to "Custer's Last Stand" to you name it.

    This bunch always has an entire portfolio of comparisons warranting exceptions for themselves on every front and for every issue.

    They're always the ones in the white hats - no matter what.

    How far do you want to take it?

    We already know that preemptive war, torture, ethnic cleansing, shredding The Constitution and numerous other heretofore unthinkable conduct were easy paradigms for them to embrace - especially if it's wrapped up in some patriotic ribbons.

    Is Cannibalism OK too because somebody else does it?

    Is there a limit or a bottom for these people?

    I haven't seen one.

    .
    Last edited by dchristie; 03-21-2012 at 12:56 PM.
    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  13. #13
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
    Well..thanks for that little exercise in moral equivalence.

    This is the favorite tactic of all the "America Is Always Right" Apologists.

    It runs the gambit of excuses from "What about Pearl Harbor" to "The Holocaust" to "Custer's Last Stand" to you name it.

    This bunch always has an entire portfolio of comparisons warranting exceptions for themselves on every front and for every issue.

    They're always the ones in the white hats - no matter what.

    How far do you want to take it?

    Is Cannibalism OK too because somebody else does it?

    Is there a limit or a bottom for these people?

    I haven't seen one.

    .
    It's all wrong, and that's the point. Did you not see where I stated that in war no one is innocent?

    It doesn't justify what we did, but at the same time it was war time. How many more innocent people could have been murdered at the hand of the Japanese had we not done what we did?

    I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's complicated. Your treating this as a black and white issue, but during times of war there are so many violent and atrocious acts that it's difficult to take a moral high ground on much of anything.

    And I have never been an "America is always right" apologist.

  14. #14
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
    It's all wrong, and that's the point. Did you not see where I stated that in war no one is innocent?

    It doesn't justify what we did, but at the same time it was war time. How many more innocent people could have been murdered at the hand of the Japanese had we not done what we did?

    I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's complicated. Your treating this as a black and white issue, but during times of war there are so many violent and atrocious acts that it's difficult to take a moral high ground on much of anything.

    And I have never been an "America is always right" apologist.
    Actually, I wasn't singling you out for anything.

    I was just addressing the theme of your post.

    It's really not that complicated.

    First off, in the specific case, even Eisenhower and our top generals declared that the nuclear attack on Japan was wholly unnecessary.

    It was gratuitous mass murder and a war crime.

    Curtis Lemay claimed after the war that he and his staff were aware that they could be prosecuted as war criminals.

    I think that you make calls during war that are practical on a strategic and tactical basis.

    Japan was already trying to surrender.

    The old" it saved lives" is the favorite fall-back.

    The war crimes deniers depend on this lie to try and sanitize the patently immoral nature of the act.

    It's an act of intellectual cowardice.

    Nothing personal.

    .
    "The best case against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter"
    -- Winston Churchill

  15. #15
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    Quote Originally Posted by dchristie View Post
    Is Cannibalism OK too because somebody else does it?
    It's not the point. The point is you are looking at the tribe of cannibals and picking out one cannibal to say how horrible that one cannibal is. While completely ignoring what the rest of the tribe was doing.

  16. #16
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    Re: Most Shocking Obscene Act Of Terrorism In Hist

    I would argue that the biggest act of terrorism would be the Crusades. I am sure there is rape and pillaging in times of war now, but then it was encouraged by the name of God. That in itself is the true meaning of terrorism.

    America did not believe that the Japanese land was ours, nor did we believe that those people are inherently evil because of some scripture or writings that a cult believes. It was a reaction, and an example of what bombs can do, and why we shouldn't use them in war.

    The mass destruction of two major cities, and the loss of lives was a bi-product of one of the most importent physical examples of what war can do. Not only war, but technology. IMO the bomb was needed, not only to end the war effectively, but to show the world that this isn't an option in the future.

    Think if they weren't dropped then but now. With multiple countries having the technology, the domino effect of one dropped warhead would lead to nuclear fallout and the destruction of every country.

    America won the race, laid the tracks for understanding what war on a massive technological scale could do, and the 1st world countries know not to use this technology as a result.

    Train bombs in france, and public beheadings of journalists do nothing on a greater scale of understanding of destruction and future impacts of warfare and said technologies.

    thousands of papers were dropped and Japan was warned multiple times before we dropped the warheads. Their ignorance and lack of understanding is what caused it, but if we didn't drop them then and the first drop was now... The damage would be in a much greater scale and we would effectively end civilized culture because of a nuclear fallout.

    No country will ever try and start a nuclear war. If that happened then I hope everyone still writes on paper still, because there will be no internet, no satellites, no electricity. It would bring a whole new meaning to survival of the fittest in what was a semi-civilized group of nations.
    huh, amazing stuff

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