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  1. #1
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    Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Think about how futile "disciplinary action" against the soldiers who burned the Qur'an would be. If the U.S. gives the soldiers a light punishment Article 15 (a slap on the wrist), Muslims will be outraged that we don't take the matter more seriously. But if we give the soldiers a heavy punishment Courts Martial (say, jail time), we will simply be enforcing Sharia on U.S. citizens. Either way, we lose.




    http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/afghans-q...to-face-trial/

    Afghans: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Says NATO agreed to bring to justice 'those responsible for incident'



    By Jack Minor
    In a development that could chill the dedication of every soldier in the field, the U.S. government has refused to deny reports by the government of Afghanistan that NATO has agreed to have the soldiers who burned copies of the Quran face trial.





    Last week, Afghan president Hamid Karzai demanded NATO turn over the U.S. troops to be tried in Afghanistan. President Obama subsequently sent a letter to Karzai reassuring him that the troops involved would be punished for their actions.


    Part of the three-page letter to Karzai said, “I extend to you and the Afghan people my sincere apologies. We will take the appropriate steps to avoid any recurrence, to include holding accountable those responsible.”
    It is unclear exactly what Obama meant by that statement as the White House has not released the full text of the letter. However, the Afghan government may have provided insight into its contents.


    Over the weekend, the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan government media and information center website posted a joint statement by the delegations assigned to probe the Quran burning incident.
    The statement says that two delegations were created to “investigate the circumstances and causes that have led to the inhumane incident.”


    The statement listed several items, including a demand that the U.S. turn over the authority of the prison in Bagram to the Afghan government to ensure similar incidents do not recur and “calls on the U.S. government to fully and comprehensively cooperate to this end.”


    However, the statement used vastly different language when discussing the fate of the U.S. soldiers involved in the incident.


    “NATO officials promised to meet Afghan nation’s demand of bringing to justice, through an open trial, those responsible for the incident and it was agreed that the perpetrators of the crime be brought to justice as soon as possible,” the statement said.
    The wording suggests members of the military could be handed over to an Afghan system that imposes Shariah-related penalties.


    U.S officials were unwilling to state emphatically that the soldiers would not be turned over to the Afghan legal system for burning the Qurans.
    Cmdr. William Speakes, a spokesman for the Pentagon said, “It would be premature to speculate at any potential outcomes. Any disciplinary action if deemed warranted will be taken by U.S. authorities after a thorough review of the facts pursuant to all U.S. military law and regulations and in accordance with due process. We have made no commitments beyond that.”
    When asked if that meant the only commitment officials were willing to make was the soldiers would not be tried in an Afghan court, Speakes said, “No. The only commitment we have made is that we will take any appropriate disciplinary action deemed necessary by the investigation. Any suggestions that we have made more detailed commitments beyond what I just told you is inaccurate.”


    Although the statements apparently were made by the Afghan government Feb. 25, they have received no mention in the mainstream media.


    Clare Lopez, a senior fellow with the Center for Security Policy, said if the statement by the Afghan government turns out to be true, it would be an unprecedented betrayal of our men and women in uniform.


    “I can’t imagine we would ever do this, what would we charge them with? Are we going to try Americans for crimes committed under Shariah law? I cannot believe our government would go that far,” she said.


    Robert Spencer, founder of Jihad Watch, said it was fascinating that the U.S. government has not gotten out in front of this issue and denied the statement.


    “The administration needs to clarify their stance on this. The longer they wait to deny this the more it has the opportunity to further inflame the Muslim in Afghanistan.”
    Spencer said that whether the soldiers end up being turned over to the Afghan government or face court-martial, either decision would set a dangerous precedent.


    “It would be unconscionable either way,” he said. “If they turn them over to the Afghan government for trial then we are endorsing the applicability of Shariah law to non-Muslims in the U.S. military. If they court-martial them then they are adopting those norms as part of the UCMJ. Either way it’s frightening.”


    Lopez said that while U.S. officials have made large concessions to appease Muslims, turning the soldiers over to face trial would be over the line.
    “If they were to allow our soldiers to be tried under a legal system that calls for the death penalty for destroying a Quran, that would be unthinkable,” she said.


    She said that the silence on the part of U.S. officials has the potential to cause real damage to the morale of troops.
    “When the government will not come out with a strong denial of this statement by the Afghan government it has the potential to cause our troops to wonder if the U.S. will truly stand behind and protect them when they are simply trying to do their job,” she said.
    It appears that the soldiers may not have violated Islamic law at all by their burning of the Qurans.


    In a PBS interview, Imam Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California, said it was acceptable to burn the Quran if it was in a state of “disrepair.”
    “When Muslims want to respectfully dispose of a text of the Quran that is no longer usable, we will burn it. So if someone, for example, in their own private collection or library had a text of the Quran that was damaged or that was in disrepair, so the binding was ruined, etc., or it got torn, they might bring it by to the Islamic Center and ask that someone here dispose of it properly if they were unsure how to do that,” Turk said. “And what I’ll do is I’ll take it to my fireplace at home and burn it there in the fireplace. So I sort of take the pages out and then burn it to make sure that it gets thoroughly charred and is no longer recognizable as script.”


    Spencer added, “You are supposed to burn a Quran that is worn out and you are not to write in it. Do they have a problem with the burning of the Quran? No, they do it all the time.”
    I swear by my life and my love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for me.
    John Galt

  2. #2
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    According to the article I am going to post there is an investigation going on and the investigation by us, the US, is the one that will be used to determine whether the soldiers did anything wrong by burning these Korans and would determine the punishment.

    It sounds to me that we are not sure they should have burned the Korans. If we are sure then it seems to me this all has been handled in an irresponsible way. People have died because of this incident.

    Someone should have spoken out early on and made clear what had happened, why and should have made clear nothing had happened that was not acceptable.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/wo...ries.html?_r=1
    Last edited by Tulip; 03-01-2012 at 03:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    My brother is in the military and will be shipping out on the 14th to that base. He says that the Qurans were being used by prisoners to communicate and that the Afghans on the base agreed to have them burned because they were defaced while the army needed to curb the communication. He said illiteracy is high over there so the locals don't understand the situation and are reacting emotionally...

  4. #4
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Quote Originally Posted by box86rowh View Post
    My brother is in the military and will be shipping out on the 14th to that base. He says that the Qurans were being used by prisoners to communicate and that the Afghans on the base agreed to have them burned because they were defaced while the army needed to curb the communication. He said illiteracy is high over there so the locals don't understand the situation and are reacting emotionally...
    Thanks for explaining this situation and that makes perfect sense.

    To bad the media isn't explaining the situation accurately.

  5. #5
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    If they can't have enough self-control to not deliberately provoke the enemy and put themselves in unnecessary danger, they shouldn't be in the military. Wait until home to practice your freedom of speech, people!

  6. #6
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    I want to say too

    I just wonder why in the world we would decide to burn Korans.
    We know it causes problems.

    Seems to me this was done without thinking this through. A really dumb mistake.

  7. #7
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    They need to dispose of suspect terrorist materials in a less spectacular and more professional manner. Besides, those should be locked up as evidence and forwarded to secret police for investigation.
    While i'm sure the evidence was taken from it.

    It's pretty obvious as you said that they should have done this in a less spectacular maner.

    It should have been pretty easy to box up the books and put them on the next plane, or truck out of there. After that they could have been destroyed without anyone knowing or caring.

  8. #8
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    seems like the typical CARELESSNESS inherent or promulgated (what does that mean) by superior firepower!?(AUTHORITY) or just a general trend in the human race itself to irresponsible conduct!? possibly due to a lack/LOSS of knowledge or belief in a BASIC INDESTRUCTIBLE goodness!? :rotz: : :crazy1: :bunny:
    Last edited by lexx; 03-01-2012 at 05:32 PM.
    i do not endorse/recommend any advertising on scam.com associated with my name /posts or otherwise. thank you

  9. #9
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    It should have been pretty easy to box up the books and put them on the next plane, or truck out of there. After that they could have been destroyed without anyone knowing or caring.
    Yup. The US and all the members of the coalition in that country KNOW FULL WELL that anything that can be portrayed as an insult will be, by the Taliban and their supporters. The rights and wrongs of burning books (who the cares?) are sadly irrelevant ... its all about what propaganda can be created from such events.

    The reaction to the burning of korans is not something we can look at in isolation, regardless of the rights or wrongs of the action or those who responded to it. It should never ever have been allowed to happen, and is in real danger of undermining years of work.

    In saying that ... I suspect the violent reaction should really be seen as an indicator that we really really need to get the out of that country. Now. Far from doing good, we are now creating more problems.

  10. #10
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Sorry, can I just say ....


    FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCKING fuck! FUCK you, whoever you are who still restricts the ability for me to type fuck and yet allows me to alter one letter thusly: fuck! Yes, you, the admin prick with the stoopid sunglasses.

    FUCK OFF.

    Sort this fucking site out, you beep. And no, that was not fuck.

  11. #11
    Yawn...'s Avatar
    Yawn... is offline I ain't got time for pedantic Ghandi type internet nerds
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Ditto............................................. .......

  12. #12
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    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Harumph!!!!
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  13. #13
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    It was a pretty careless action for them to take to burn these books in that manner. They should have anticipated that there would be a backlash.

    As someone said before, the responsible move would have been to box them up, take them out of the country, and then destroy them without the muslims knowing about it.

    Injecting sanity back into the argument, these books were used to pass notes between some of the inmates, and since they were written in, the books were already defiled as far as Islamic law is concerned.

    How can we defile something that has already been defiled ? But of course, try explaining that to any of these illiterate savages who are just looking for any reason to kill Americans.

  14. #14
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    It didn't take them long to find some poor shmucks to throw to the wolves!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/wo...nistan.html?hp

    5 U.S. Service Members Found Responsible for Koran Burnings

    By GRAHAM BOWLEY and ALISSA J. RUBIN

    Published: March 2, 2012





    KABUL, Afghanistan — Five American service members and an Afghan-American linguist were directly involved in the burning of Korans at a NATO base, an event a week ago that plunged Afghanistan into days of violent protests, according to the preliminary conclusions of a joint military investigation.








    “All six will be referred to the proper U.S. authorities for further action,” said an official familiar with the joint Afghan-American investigation into the Koran burnings, who was not authorized to speak about it publicly.


    Significantly, the five service members found responsible so far include military “leaders,” according to the report. While it was unclear whether that meant any senior officers would be held to account, it was taken as a sign here that the investigation was focusing more on decision-making along the chain of command rather than simply focusing on soldiers who may have been carrying out orders with little understanding of their potential impact.
    The preeminent religious authority in Afghanistan, the Ulema Council, said Friday that those responsible for the burning of the Korans and other religious texts should be put on trial and punished. And it called for the American-led coalition to respond by handing over all Afghan prisoners in its custody and ceding control of its prisons.



    The Ulema Council, which is made up of scholarly mullahs, made its recommendations following its own investigation into the Koran burning incident last week in a statement released through President Hamid Karzai’s office late on Friday evening.
    The burning of the Korans and other religious texts, seized from Afghan prisoners at an American-run detention center, triggered days of deadly protests. At least 29 Afghans have been killed in the violence, and the outpouring of popular fury coincided with the shooting deaths of six American soldiers.



    Gen. John R. Allen, the NATO commanding general in Afghanistan, and President Obama both apologized in the wake of the demonstrations.
    But in its statement Friday, the Ulema Council condemned the burning, said no apology would be enough to forgive the desecrations of the Koran and asked for guarantees that religious texts would never be dishonored again.



    “The council strongly condemns this inhuman, bad and barbaric act by American forces based at Bagram Military Base and emphasizes that this devilish action cannot be forgiven by apologizing,” Maulawi Mohammad Said, a member of the council, said in a statement read to Mr. Karzai, according to the palace. “The perpetrators of this crime should be put on a public trial as soon as possible and be punished, and both NATO and the United States should guarantee that in the future no one will dare to desecrate Muslim religious materials.”



    The council’s recommendations largely repeat demands it made last week immediately after the incident — although in fierier language this time — when it also called for a trial and justice for those responsible.



    But on Friday the council also said it had concluded that the root cause of the burnings was what it called the illegal administration of the prison and said the remedy was to close down all foreign prisons and hand them over to Afghan control.



    Those findings offered support for Mr. Karzai in his long-running dispute with the coalition over control of prisons in Afghanistan.
    Mr. Karzai has repeatedly argued that the Afghan government should take over the American-run detention center in Parwan, adjacent to the Bagram Air Base north of Kabul, where more than 3,000 inmates suspected of being insurgents are housed, in addition to other detention centers.



    So far, the United States has declined, citing legal reasons and saying that the Afghans are not prepared to run the maximum security sites.



    On Friday, Gavin Sundwall, a spokesman for the American Embassy in Kabul, reiterated that argument in an e-mailed statement: “The United States has repeatedly made clear that it is committed to working with the Afghan government to complete a transition of detention operations in Afghanistan in a manner that is safe and orderly and in accordance with our international legal obligations.”



    The Ulema Council also came out in favor of an issue the Karzai government sees as another point of national sovereignty: an end to night raids by the United States military, in which commandos search for people suspected of being insurgents in private homes rather than in the field.

    Both the control of the prisons and the night raids are sticking points in negotiations, currently at a crucial stage, over a longer-term strategic partnership between the United States and Afghanistan.



    The council’s investigation was only one of three parallel investigations into the Koran burnings. Perhaps more awaited is an interim report, conducted jointly between the United States and Afghan military. It is likely to give a far more detailed explanation into the events that led to the burning of Korans and other religious texts, and its findings will be an important test of Afghan public opinion following the days of violent protests.
    NATO said Friday that the investigation was completed, and would soon be passed to General Allen for review. He will decide what findings and recommendations to make public.
    It is expected within the next week, officials have said.



    But the only investigation that will carry formal legal weight is a third inquiry, conducted by the American military alone, that could lead ultimately to criminal legal action or lesser administrative punishment. Its findings and recommendations are expected in the second half of this month.
    After last week’s deadly protests, Afghanistan has become quieter in the last few days, with few signs of protests. Some of the NATO military advisers pulled from Afghan ministries by General Allen after the shooting deaths of two American officers inside the Interior Ministry have also begun to return to work.



    Asked whether the calls by the Ulema Council would increase tensions again, Mr. Sundwall said: “We certainly hope that the release of this report does not lead to more violence. We appreciated President Karzai’s repeated calls for dialogue and calm earlier and hope that people took them to heart. As Ambassador Crocker has said, we believe that we will get through this unfortunate period, that a decade’s worth of relationships don’t go away in a single week.”
    I swear by my life and my love for it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for me.
    John Galt

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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    Poor schmucks? The military is not the right place to act stupid in.

  16. #16
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    Re: Quran-burning soldiers to face trial

    You would think they would be more understanding of the burning of the Korans if the burning was done for a reason the US Military thought was necessary. If a mistake was made it was just that, a mistake.

    I have a difficult time understanding why our Military could make such a mistake.

    This leaves me knowing we are not respected in this country and possibly our efforts are futile.

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