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  1. #1
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    Climb to the Top

    Odd, this article from Forbes business magazine from a couple of years back seems to have slipped under the radar - mine at least.

    Climb to the Top

    In essence it talks about how the top earners in MLM really make their money and the poor schmucks stuck at the bottom of the totem pole are just spinning their wheels.

    "Woodward, by contrast, doesn't have to sell a drop of the concoction (MonaVie) to make a killing. Team, rather, sells things that help people sell things like MonaVie. Team sells "tools"--$258 sets of motivational compact discs, $69 Team shirts and books like Woodward's Launching a Leadership Revolution, all of which filled the Nationwide Arena's hockey rink. Outside, a black Mercedes-Benz gleamed next to a sign saying "Work hard, go black diamond, get one of these!"

    The pro MLM here crowd keep asking us to name just one scam that's ever been busted on this forum.

    Actually, there hae been hundreds, but if you're asking for an example of one - well, here ya' go!

  2. #2
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    The thing about the "get one of these cars" reminded me of my experience with my mentor and his wife. The one that gave me the catchphrase "What's YOUR dream car?"

    She asked me what my dream car was. I was embarrassed by such a childish question, but I played along. Told her a BMW. She said "What color?" Then her husband kind of halfway rolled his eyes and was like "Generally BMWs come in black honey."

    The point is, this crap is so silly and you have clueless women asking men questions about "dream cars" when they don't even know what they are talking about.

    Btw, the "dream car" thing is just used for young guys. But if you are an older person, they'll use your dying child's sickness as your "dream car", or anything else for that matter. It's the "hook" that keeps you dumping money into the MLM. Pretty sick stuff.
    There is not one woman on this planet capable of finishing an entire can of soda.

  3. #3
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    Odd, this article from Forbes business magazine from a couple of years back seems to have slipped under the radar - mine at least.

    Climb to the Top

    In essence it talks about how the top earners in MLM really make their money and the poor schmucks stuck at the bottom of the totem pole are just spinning their wheels.

    "Woodward, by contrast, doesn't have to sell a drop of the concoction (MonaVie) to make a killing. Team, rather, sells things that help people sell things like MonaVie. Team sells "tools"--$258 sets of motivational compact discs, $69 Team shirts and books like Woodward's Launching a Leadership Revolution, all of which filled the Nationwide Arena's hockey rink. Outside, a black Mercedes-Benz gleamed next to a sign saying "Work hard, go black diamond, get one of these!"

    The pro MLM here crowd keep asking us to name just one scam that's ever been busted on this forum.

    Actually, there hae been hundreds, but if you're asking for an example of one - well, here ya' go!

    You are saying that selling items to people who want them is a scam?
    And you wonder why we ask ''have you ever busted a scam yet?''
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  4. #4
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You are saying that selling items to people who want them is a scam?
    I'm saying selling false hope is a scam.

    Tools encourage recruits to reject doubters and, if money fails to materialize, to blame themselves and keep trying. Tools can themselves be a gold mine.
    You condone that type of action?

    To have people blame themselves if money fails to materialize, when it was the inherently flawed system that was at fault?

    Since we're talking about MonaVie, and they're one of the larger and better known MLM companies, let's look at what a distributor earns.

    According to the 2009 Income Disclosure Statement approximately 87% of the people that signed a distributor agreement between July 2008 and June 2009 were not counted as distributors as they didn't satisfy the 4 criteria (sign agreement, sponsor at least one person, receive at least one non-retail bonus, and has been active in the bonus period).

    Of the remaining 13% that were recognized as distributors for further calculations, 50% earned an average annual paycheck of $1213. And 35% earned an average paycheck of $1817. Less than 2% of the 13% (or less than a quarter of a percent) of the people who signed the distributor agreement earned an average annual paycheck of $29,310 or more.
    Now from those figures, we have to deduct the thousands of dollars in expenses distributors can incur trying to generate those commissions. Things such as the trip to that convention in Columbus, Ohio and the cost of purchasing promotional and sales-development materials from the companies or top distributors. Not to mention the time involved and other normal expenses.

    All that to earn an average annual paycheck of $1213 - $1817?

    Once you deduct expenses, you're running in the red.

    And you don't see SCAM plastered all over the operation?

  5. #5
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    I'm saying selling false hope is a scam.



    You condone that type of action?

    To have people blame themselves if money fails to materialize, when it was the inherently flawed system that was at fault?

    Since we're talking about MonaVie, and they're one of the larger and better known MLM companies, let's look at what a distributor earns.


    Now from those figures, we have to deduct the thousands of dollars in expenses distributors can incur trying to generate those commissions. Things such as the trip to that convention in Columbus, Ohio and the cost of purchasing promotional and sales-development materials from the companies or top distributors. Not to mention the time involved and other normal expenses.

    All that to earn an average annual paycheck of $1213 - $1817?

    Once you deduct expenses, you're running in the red.

    And you don't see SCAM plastered all over the operation?
    I'm saying that selling tools in itself is not a scam if the people that are buying them want them. I have seen countless reports from people who never made a penny in MLM but valued the information they received from the tools they had bought and actually stated that the information they learned helped them in other areas of their lives.

    Now Brian, if you can come up with huge numbers of people who felt they received nothing for the tools money they spent, we might have a scam.

    As usual on this place, very few people understand the meaning of the word ''scam''.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  6. #6
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I'm saying that selling tools in itself is not a scam if the people that are buying them want them.
    Ah, yes, the "if" word.

    When the people selling the tools know darn well statistically less than a quarter of a percent of the people who buy them will ever earn an average annual paycheck of $29,310 or more, you don't see scam?

    When the guy selling the dream didn't make his money peddling the juice but rather by selling $258 sets of motivational compact discs, $69 Team shirts and his book "Launching a Leadership Revolution"?

    But still he tries to convince people they can get rich, not by doing what he did, but by doing what he says when the statistics and the facts show this not to be the case?

    You don't see the scam?

  7. #7
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    Ah, yes, the "if" word.

    When the people selling the tools know darn well statistically less than a quarter of a percent of the people who buy them will ever earn an average annual paycheck of $29,310 or more, you don't see scam?

    When the guy selling the dream didn't make his money peddling the juice but rather by selling $258 sets of motivational compact discs, $69 Team shirts and his book "Launching a Leadership Revolution"?

    But still he tries to convince people they can get rich, not by doing what he did, but by doing what he says when the statistics and the facts show this not to be the case?

    You don't see the scam?
    Of course I say ''if'', because like you, I dont know how many people are getting valuable information from those tools and how many believe they are getting nothing from them. When you produce those stats, we'll make an informed decision on whether those particular tools are scams. I'll be waiting.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  8. #8
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Of course I say ''if'', because like you, I dont know how many people are getting valuable information from those tools and how many believe they are getting nothing from them.
    You don't know how many people are getting valuable information from those tools?

    You just said above:

    I have seen countless reports from people who never made a penny in MLM but valued the information they received from the tools they had bought.
    Let's begin by you sharing a few of those "countless reports".

  9. #9
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bunkum View Post
    You don't know how many people are getting valuable information from those tools?

    You just said above:
    Thats right, meaning I dont have stats or numbers of people who have either received value from the tools or those that feel they haven't.



    Let's begin by you sharing a few of those "countless reports".
    Sorry, I don't have time to be searching round the internet to please you.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  10. #10
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Thats right, meaning I dont have stats or numbers of people who have either received value from the tools or those that feel they haven't.

    Sorry, I don't have time to be searching round the internet to please you.
    Translation: I made it all up.

  11. #11
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Those IDS are the Achille's heel of MLM. Look how Chris again avoid's the facts created from the statistics made available by the MLM's themselves. He avoided a breakdown in an earlier showing the average "hard-working" MLM rep averaging $6/hr. While my analysis has some flaws, he decided to continually attack others with insults, meanwhile he complains about a) insults being tossed at him throughout this forum and b) no one discussing the topics, all awhile avoiding a legitimate argument himself.
    __________________________________________________ ____
    MLMer admits it is ok to break family bonds and tear at its fabric in order to pursue "success." [Is this what you want from your business?]

    CoolGrey: [Son concerned with is parents choice to join Amway] After one last heated argument with my mom, I have been kicked out for "being too negative" and "bringing so much negativity home" (just got home from college)

    ChrisDoyle: I have to be honest I'm with your parents on this one.

  12. #12
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Thats right, meaning I dont have stats or numbers of people who have either received value from the tools or those that feel they haven't.





    Sorry, I don't have time to be searching round the internet to please you.


    But...but...what about all the misinformation we are presenting to all your would-be downline recruits! You wouldn't want them thinking MLM is bad........one day you will grow up and realize it isn't about me you or anyone else that posts here. :
    __________________________________________________ ____
    MLMer admits it is ok to break family bonds and tear at its fabric in order to pursue "success." [Is this what you want from your business?]

    CoolGrey: [Son concerned with is parents choice to join Amway] After one last heated argument with my mom, I have been kicked out for "being too negative" and "bringing so much negativity home" (just got home from college)

    ChrisDoyle: I have to be honest I'm with your parents on this one.

  13. #13
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    Re: Climb to the Top

    Quote Originally Posted by iamwil View Post
    Don't you think those are pretty low hurdles? All that?? 'All that' got you on the list...and for many 'all that' was probably 'all that' they did, which yeilded them a $15 commission and put them on the books for a year. If those earning a hundred dollars a month averaged over an hour a week for it, I'd be surprised.
    Excellent article in The Salt Lake Tribune:

    Debt and defeat at the bottom of the sales pyramid

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