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  1. #113
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    It used to be. Until I found God. Then everything just magically came into place.

    Gotta love magic.
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  2. #114
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
    Gotta love magic.
    If you do, come to our church. It's magical.

  3. #115
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    If you do, come to our church. It's magical.

    No, thanks. I have yet to be convinced that magic actually exists.
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  4. #116
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
    No, thanks. I have yet to be convinced that magic actually exists.
    Maybe some day when you puke enough, you'll be ready.

  5. #117
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    Maybe some day when you puke enough, you'll be ready.

    When I PUKE enough? What the hell is that supposed to mean? LOL
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  6. #118
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilZoe View Post
    When I PUKE enough? What the hell is that supposed to mean? LOL
    Doesn't matter what it means. But if becomes too much for you, just know you can PM finix on that day and finix will cheer you up.

  7. #119
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    Doesn't matter what it means. But if becomes too much for you, just know you can PM finix on that day and finix will cheer you up.
    So it's woo woo time again, is it? LOL
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  8. #120
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    He who knows, knows.

    I'm sick and tired of explaining obvious to me things to people who claim to be rational and all-knowing.
    I also "knew" when I was enchanted by this mass delusional belief.
    When I finally started to ask the important questions of myself, in effect "I paid the price that included the entire show, ( life) so why am I only watching a portion of it?"

    IOW, lets just subject these "beliefs" of mine (the personal ones I had been taught and had learned on my own) to a circumspect scrutiny of consequences and origins of proof.

    They failed at every turn......

    IF you think that you know....you don't, IF you know that you know, you don't, IF you know that you don't know, you DO know.....

    Unchallenged belief systems are a roadblock at some point in the personal quest for our truth.

    For me, the term "faith" in the religious sense meant a way to justify keeping up my beliefs in the light of proofs that actually shot them down.

    It is up to each and every one of us to awaken our critical thinker, or face stagnation and thus disintegration in some dead-end dogmatic state, IMHO.

    If the scientific method ever came to religion, it wouldn't last the night.......

    Different people need different things. Usually what's hardest for you to do is what you need to work on the most. If it's hard for you to think, you should learn to think. If it's hard for you to believe, you should learn to believe. Etc.
    I don't want to "need" anything.
    What I cannot give to myself that I think that I need, I don't need.

    The term "need" implies a lack of inner security which has never been seriously dealt with by the individual.

    I know that everyone is insecure inside, whether they admit it or not, as there is no such thing as security...anywhere any time. This is a big reason that lots of folks turn to religion, as a security blanket.

    Learning to personally deal with this is paramount for our self-reliance.

    If I want something that I cannot give to myself, I ask for it from those who are trained to give it.

    And once a person convinces himself to learn to think, and he learns to discern need from want, his training has just started.

    I've learned that we must continue to teach ourselves to think and question, and never stop, no matter how proficient we get at it, nor how much we think that we have found "the truth."

    And a religion is a starting place for training ourselves how to think.

    It is one of many thrust-blocks to get a person moving on their quest of finding their own truth.

    The learning only stops when one either dies, or stagnates in a dogmatic "solution" of some type.

    Your belief is the most common harbor on the planet, I'm afraid.

    You can usually spot these safe harbors, as they are like a dead man's eyes...fixed, unmoving, and dilated in a unified belief that never gets unbiasedly questioned by the followers.
    Religious leaders rely on this idea.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  9. #121
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    I also "knew" when I was enchanted by this mass delusional belief.
    When I finally started to ask the important questions of myself, in effect "I paid the price that included the entire show, ( life) so why am I only watching a portion of it?"

    IOW, lets just subject these "beliefs" of mine (the personal ones I had been taught and had learned on my own) to a circumspect scrutiny of consequences and origins of proof.

    They failed at every turn......

    IF you think that you know....you don't, IF you know that you know, you don't, IF you know that you don't know, you DO know.....

    Unchallenged belief systems are a roadblock at some point in the personal quest for our truth.

    For me, the term "faith" in the religious sense meant a way to justify keeping up my beliefs in the light of proofs that actually shot them down.

    It is up to each and every one of us to awaken our critical thinker, or face stagnation and thus disintegration in some dead-end dogmatic state, IMHO.

    If the scientific method ever came to religion, it wouldn't last the night.......

    I don't want to "need" anything.
    What I cannot give to myself that I think that I need, I don't need.

    The term "need" implies a lack of inner security which has never been seriously dealt with by the individual.

    I know that everyone is insecure inside, whether they admit it or not, as there is no such thing as security...anywhere any time. This is a big reason that lots of folks turn to religion, as a security blanket.

    Learning to personally deal with this is paramount for our self-reliance.

    If I want something that I cannot give to myself, I ask for it from those who are trained to give it.

    And once a person convinces himself to learn to think, and he learns to discern need from want, his training has just started.

    I've learned that we must continue to teach ourselves to think and question, and never stop, no matter how proficient we get at it, nor how much we think that we have found "the truth."

    And a religion is a starting place for training ourselves how to think.

    It is one of many thrust-blocks to get a person moving on their quest of finding their own truth.

    The learning only stops when one either dies, or stagnates in a dogmatic "solution" of some type.

    Your belief is the most common harbor on the planet, I'm afraid.

    You can usually spot these safe harbors, as they are like a dead man's eyes...fixed, unmoving, and dilated in a unified belief that never gets unbiasedly questioned by the followers.
    Religious leaders rely on this idea.

    I'll bet if you PUKED enough you'd change your mind......LOL
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  10. #122
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    I don't want to "need" anything.
    What I cannot give to myself that I think that I need, I don't need.
    No one in their right mind "wants" to need anything. Sometimes you just don't have a choice. If you are sick, you "need" medical help. If you are disabled, you "need" people taking care of you. Etc.

  11. #123
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    No one in their right mind "wants" to need anything. Sometimes you just don't have a choice. If you are sick, you "need" medical help. If you are disabled, you "need" people taking care of you. Etc.

    When would anyone who requires evidence before believing in something NEED to believe in an illusion?
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  12. #124
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    That's on the level of individuals. If you look at the picture in terms of statistical probabilities, certain texts seem to aid in healing process - by only for the believers in those texts.
    Your kidding.......right?
    Then maybe if doctors knew the correct verses they could retire and teach those verses to their nurses to pray over the amputees so their limbs would grow back in place....
    Larry Dossey: Evaluation of past studies:

    Larry Dossey has studied the effect of prayer on healing. In his book, he reports on "an enormous body of evidence: over one hundred experiments exhibiting the criteria of good science, many conducted under stringent laboratory conditions, over half of which showed that prayer brings about significant changes in a variety of living beings." 5 Dossey describes a survey by a physician, Daniel J. Benor, of experiments attempting to find positive effects of prayer on enzymes, cells, yeasts, bacteria, plants, animals, and human beings. That survey found 131 publish studied of which 56 showed "statistically significant results at a probability level of <0.01 or better." 6A probability level of 0.01 means that one out of every 100 replicated experiments would be expected to produce the result, merely due to random chance. However, none of the studies produced a p-value of 0.01% -- 100 times more stringent -- which is the standard generally required in scientific research. 7
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  13. #125
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Your kidding.......right?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    Then maybe if doctors knew the correct verses they could retire and teach those verses to their nurses to pray over the amputees so their limbs would grow back in place...
    The limbs won't grow back, but if doctors knew the correct verses, they could instruct nurses to read them to amputees who are having hard time with dealing. No, doctors can't retire. Verses would be entirely useless if there is an infection or other emergency.

  14. #126
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    No.


    The limbs won't grow back, but if doctors knew the correct verses, they could instruct nurses to read them to amputees who are having hard time with dealing. No, doctors can't retire. Verses would be entirely useless if there is an infection or other emergency.
    And utterly useless as healing.

    Making people feel better about their situation can be done without verses, as well.
    :mxmas:


    "The one thing women don't want to find in their stockings on Christmas morning is their husband." ~ Joan Rivers

  15. #127
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    No one in their right mind "wants" to need anything. Sometimes you just don't have a choice. If you are sick, you "need" medical help. If you are disabled, you "need" people taking care of you. Etc.
    I never ever stated that I wanted to need something.
    I think this is what I stated:
    I don't want to "need" anything.
    What I cannot give to myself that I think that I need, I don't need.
    Your statement above would purport that I KNOW that what I want, I need....it just isn't so.
    I might not even want to go on, if I couldn't take care of myself.

    What would you ever know of a person who studies ways to remain self-reliant, in their life?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  16. #128
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    Re: What did Jesus save us from?

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    No.


    The limbs won't grow back, but if doctors knew the correct verses, they could instruct nurses to read them to amputees who are having hard time with dealing. No, doctors can't retire. Verses would be entirely useless if there is an infection or other emergency.
    (Ahem) If the amputees requested a "spiritual" verse or two, they could also request something read from The Rig Veda, or request a philosophical reading from Socrates, or request to talk with a trained psychiatrist, for that matter.

    The healing would take place on the inside from whatever they requested to listen to.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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