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  1. #1
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    Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Step 1. Try the products.

    Step 2. Sell the products for a profit.

    Step 3. When you have a business doing that, find and show others how to do the same.

    Is that simple or not? Discuss.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  2. #2
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Simple, but not easy.

    Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and
    to put one's thoughts into action is the
    most difficult thing in the world.
    ~ Johann von Goethe

    If it were easy, there'd be NO OPPORTUNITY. Everyone would be in already, as it's so eaaaasy...right?ing1:

    Catch-22?
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  3. #3
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Simple, but not easy.

    Thinking is easy, acting is difficult, and
    to put one's thoughts into action is the
    most difficult thing in the world.
    ~ Johann von Goethe

    If it were easy, there'd be NO OPPORTUNITY. Everyone would be in already, as it's so eaaaasy...right?ing1:

    Catch-22?
    Correct. Easy and simple, two very different meanings.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  4. #4
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Step 1, only if the product is truly unique and of value, or is priced at or below market. Otherwise, you're paying a premium for the product, and getting "paid" on a percentage of that spread.

    Step 2, see above. For example, if the product costs $10 elsewhere, the MLM charges you $15, declares wholesale to be $13, you're laying out $5 over market value and only getting back two (this is known as "getting paid" in MLM speak). It takes a whole lot of downline overrides to get back the other $3, and even more to become cash flow positive. Add to that the initial and ongoing fees. That $15 is now effectively $16 or $17, making it even more difficult to break even.

    Step 3, most people focus on recruiting others first and foremost, before building their own business to any significant degree (which I define as cash flow positive). It seems fraudulent to feign success at a business and teach others to be profitable when you have yet to realize that goal yourself.

    To me, the simplest way to explain MLM is this:

    Join for a fee, and purchase the products. The comp plan and quotas are usually structured so that purchasing products on autoship is a matter of necessity. You pay a premium over what the product costs elsewhere. In addition, the wholesale price the company quotes is usually higher than market value as well. The difference from the company's wholesale price and their retail price is known as the spread. You're paid on a percentage of that spread, not the whole thing, in increasing amounts as you move up the compensation ladder as your business grows.

    This alone is not enough to recoup costs and become cash flow positive, so you need to recruit downlines. You earn overrides on your downlines. If all goes well, you earn enough overrides on your downlines that you recoup the rest of the spread and then begin to see a net profit. How you receive overrides and bonuses are dependent on the comp plan.

    how long it takes to do this, if you can do this, and how much it costs you to do this tells you if it was a poor business opportunity or not.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Step 1, only if the product is truly unique and of value, or is priced at or below market. Otherwise, you're paying a premium for the product, and getting "paid" on a percentage of that spread.
    The products do not have to be totally unique. There are many products in the world today that are not unique and sell very well. Price is unimportant, of more importance is ''will customers buy the products?'' If yes, you have a business.

    Step 2, see above. For example, if the product costs $10 elsewhere, the MLM charges you $15, declares wholesale to be $13, you're laying out $5 over market value and only getting back two (this is known as "getting paid" in MLM speak). It takes a whole lot of downline overrides to get back the other $3, and even more to become cash flow positive. Add to that the initial and ongoing fees. That $15 is now effectively $16 or $17, making it even more difficult to break even.
    You are trying to complicate things. The most important thing is: ''Do I like the products and will others buy them?''

    Step 3, most people focus on recruiting others first and foremost, before building their own business to any significant degree (which I define as cash flow positive). It seems fraudulent to feign success at a business and teach others to be profitable when you have yet to realize that goal yourself.
    I explained in the opening post the way to do it, build a customer base first so that you have a business to show others. If ''most'' people are not doing this, then they're doing it wrong. Their fault, not the fault of a MLM compensation plan.

    The rest of your post is just complicating things, as you always do. Its quite obvious to me why you failed at MLM, you sat there for hours complicating matters instead of getting out there and finding customers and building your business.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  6. #6
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    The products do not have to be totally unique. There are many products in the world today that are not unique and sell very well. Price is unimportant, of more importance is ''will customers buy the products?'' If yes, you have a business.



    You are trying to complicate things. The most important thing is: ''Do I like the products and will others buy them?''



    I explained in the opening post the way to do it, build a customer base first so that you have a business to show others. If ''most'' people are not doing this, then they're doing it wrong. Their fault, not the fault of a MLM compensation plan.

    The rest of your post is just complicating things, as you always do. Its quite obvious to me why you failed at MLM, you sat there for hours complicating matters instead of getting out there and finding customers and building your business.
    Tough to find customers when I'm repeatedly asked why my products are so much more expensive than similar products easily found elsewhere (Quixtar). When I would try to sell the opportunity, the prospect would ask me how the products were supposed to sell when they were so much more expensive than similar products that can be found elsewhere. I had no good explanation form this. It's easy to see why this business failed. I probably made the mistake of talking to people that were not gullible or otherwise easily persuaded.

    Remeber, this was Quixtar, where the best of the best were earning only around $60k/yr off of the business, and the other $190k off of the tools. The average IBO at that time was earning around $189/yr.

    To say that price is unimportant is incorrect. This is what my upline tried to convince me of, and this principle failed miserably in practice, in the real world.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Tough to find customers when I'm repeatedly asked why my products are so much more expensive than similar products easily found elsewhere (Quixtar). When I would try to sell the opportunity, the prospect would ask me how the products were supposed to sell when they were so much more expensive than similar products that can be found elsewhere. I had no good explanation form this. It's easy to see why this business failed. I probably made the mistake of talking to people that were not gullible or otherwise easily persuaded.

    Remeber, this was Quixtar, where the best of the best were earning only around $60k/yr off of the business, and the other $190k off of the tools. The average IBO at that time was earning around $189/yr.

    To say that price is unimportant is incorrect. This is what my upline tried to convince me of, and this principle failed miserably in practice, in the real world.

    Then you didnt follow Step 1. Find products that you like and would use without any business opportunity attached. You should have looked for a different business/products.
    You are very obsessed with price. If Rolls Royce salesmen thought like that, they'd be out of business very quickly.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  8. #8
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Then you didnt follow Step 1. Find products that you like and would use without any business opportunity attached. You should have looked for a different business/products.
    You are very obsessed with price. If Rolls Royce salesmen thought like that, they'd be out of business very quickly.
    Are you comparing Vitamark to Rolls Royce? I don't even know what to do with that. I thought MLM was about getting paid for using products that you already use. If it were indeed a Rolls, if it were to cost $200k (I don't know what they actually cost) in the real world, MLM would charge $300k and give you back 40k, and a few grand here and there from your downlines until you're eventually back up to $300k. The $100k spread is necessary to pay everyone on all the different levels. This is how MLM works. Most people would rather just pay the $200k for the Rolls elswehere, so yes, price is important.

    Anyway, my old quixtar rep, Rich Morea, is still up to his old tricks:

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/departme...-rid-8836p.htm

    Just the way I remember him.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Are you comparing Vitamark to Rolls Royce? I don't even know what to do with that. I thought MLM was about getting paid for using products that you already use. If it were indeed a Rolls, if it were to cost $200k (I don't know what they actually cost) in the real world, MLM would charge $300k and give you back 40k, and a few grand here and there from your downlines until you're eventually back up to $300k. The $100k spread is necessary to pay everyone on all the different levels. This is how MLM works. Most people would rather just pay the $200k for the Rolls elswehere, so yes, price is important.

    Anyway, my old quixtar rep, Rich Morea, is still up to his old tricks:

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/departme...-rid-8836p.htm

    Just the way I remember him.
    I think you know the point I was making, dont act stupid. People rarely buy by price alone, otherwise we'd all be driving round in Skodas and Ladas. People are prepared to pay a premium for products they regard as premium, as I do. My job is simply to find others who like them enough to pay the price they are, not to try and convince people like you. The dollar shop merchants like you are not my target market.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  10. #10
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I think you know the point I was making, dont act stupid. People rarely buy by price alone, otherwise we'd all be driving round in Skodas and Ladas. People are prepared to pay a premium for products they regard as premium, as I do. My job is simply to find others who like them enough to pay the price they are, not to try and convince people like you. The dollar shop merchants like you are not my target market.
    Sure, people don't buy on price alone, but they're not generally going to buy something for $15 when they can find the same thing for $10 elsewhere. This is why people buy their gas down the street where it's a few cents cheaper. This is one of the reasons why people buy houses further away from their job, and choose to commute further. This is why retirees who live in expensive areas choose to relocate to a more tax friendly locale with a cheaper cost of living. This is why Walmart, Costco, BJ's, etc. do so well.

    Buying products through most MLM's is like facing two soda machines. One sells a bottle of coke for $1. The other sells the same size bottle of coke (or maybe pepsi for sake of argument) for $1.25, but "pays" you ten cents back on your purchase.

    I started a thread on disintermediation and reintermediation to address MLM's and pricing. Basically, the whole point of using the internet to sell goods and services in disintermediation. This allows the business and consumer to cut out uneccesary middlemen, to lower the price. This works well with thravel services, for example.

    With MLM, the reverse is true. With reintermediation, extra people are added to the distribution chain, all of which expect to be paid. As such, the cost of the product becomes much more expensive than would be necessary otherwise. So, it's not that the product is priced so high due to value alone, but rather because numerous individuals beed to be compensated. This is why we keep complaining that MLM products are found much cheaper elsewhere, and this is a major limiting factor in what would otherwise make MLM ventures much more successful. MLM takes the best benefit of e-commerce and does exactly the opposite.

    This is why I say that the MLM concept could work. I actually think it's clever, and in a good way. What ruins it is the @%!*&$ price, the fees, mandatory tool purchases/mandatory autoships, quotas, etc. And that's just for the non-fraudulent ones. If you can't be cash flow positive before ever recruiting a downline, it's nothing but a recruiting pyramid, pure and simple.

    As most of us know, pyramids work by people at the bottom contributing money, and then receiving their cut when they reach a certain level. Essentially, the same thing happens in MLM, really any MLM that is set up in such a way that it's virtually impossible to be cash flow positive without a downline. It can be because of the product, it's pricing, the quotas, the mandatory fees, or any combnation of these. Essentially, these downlines are cash flow negative for a period of time, which could be months or years, but it's essentially the same as a pyramid where you buy in, since no one at the bottom is making money. When the distributor recruits enough downlines, and receives enough overrides and bonuses, they then become cash flow positive, just like those in the pyramid that did their time and are ready to get their payout.

    The MLM systems as above are like a pyramid, just that it's a gradual progression to a lucrative payout, unlike the classic pyramid where you pay in, bring others in, and get a lump sum.

    This is why I say that MLM's w/o enough retail sales to profit the bottom line, much of the time at least (because there will be skells that are lazy and do nothing) are scams.

  11. #11
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    Sure, people don't buy on price alone, but they're not generally going to buy something for $15 when they can find the same thing for $10 elsewhere. This is why people buy their gas down the street where it's a few cents cheaper. This is one of the reasons why people buy houses further away from their job, and choose to commute further. This is why retirees who live in expensive areas choose to relocate to a more tax friendly locale with a cheaper cost of living. This is why Walmart, Costco, BJ's, etc. do so well.

    Buying products through most MLM's is like facing two soda machines. One sells a bottle of coke for $1. The other sells the same size bottle of coke (or maybe pepsi for sake of argument) for $1.25, but "pays" you ten cents back on your purchase.

    I started a thread on disintermediation and reintermediation to address MLM's and pricing. Basically, the whole point of using the internet to sell goods and services in disintermediation. This allows the business and consumer to cut out uneccesary middlemen, to lower the price. This works well with thravel services, for example.

    With MLM, the reverse is true. With reintermediation, extra people are added to the distribution chain, all of which expect to be paid. As such, the cost of the product becomes much more expensive than would be necessary otherwise. So, it's not that the product is priced so high due to value alone, but rather because numerous individuals beed to be compensated. This is why we keep complaining that MLM products are found much cheaper elsewhere, and this is a major limiting factor in what would otherwise make MLM ventures much more successful. MLM takes the best benefit of e-commerce and does exactly the opposite.

    This is why I say that the MLM concept could work. I actually think it's clever, and in a good way. What ruins it is the @%!*&$ price, the fees, mandatory tool purchases/mandatory autoships, quotas, etc. And that's just for the non-fraudulent ones. If you can't be cash flow positive before ever recruiting a downline, it's nothing but a recruiting pyramid, pure and simple.

    As most of us know, pyramids work by people at the bottom contributing money, and then receiving their cut when they reach a certain level. Essentially, the same thing happens in MLM, really any MLM that is set up in such a way that it's virtually impossible to be cash flow positive without a downline. It can be because of the product, it's pricing, the quotas, the mandatory fees, or any combnation of these. Essentially, these downlines are cash flow negative for a period of time, which could be months or years, but it's essentially the same as a pyramid where you buy in, since no one at the bottom is making money. When the distributor recruits enough downlines, and receives enough overrides and bonuses, they then become cash flow positive, just like those in the pyramid that did their time and are ready to get their payout.

    The MLM systems as above are like a pyramid, just that it's a gradual progression to a lucrative payout, unlike the classic pyramid where you pay in, bring others in, and get a lump sum.

    This is why I say that MLM's w/o enough retail sales to profit the bottom line, much of the time at least (because there will be skells that are lazy and do nothing) are scams.

    You will find that the vast majority of MLMs sell products that are different brands from those in the stores, therefore you cant say, as you are, that the MLMs product is $15, while the same thing in the store is $10.
    Way to find out which one is better? Try them of course.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  12. #12
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    You will find that the vast majority of MLMs sell products that are different brands from those in the stores, therefore you cant say, as you are, that the MLMs product is $15, while the same thing in the store is $10.
    Way to find out which one is better? Try them of course.
    They're essentially the same. How many different lotion and potion MLM's are out there? How many similar products exist outside of MLM? It's the MLM's that put out these products to try and capture market share from the conventional brick and mortar/online stores.

    For example, these VOIP MLM's get absolutely crushed by mainstream business such as Vonage and Verizon. Let's say that an MLM does do well, the major brands can simply lower their prices and get their customers back. They can sell them at a loss for a little while if they have to.

    If what you said above is true, more MLM's would have bottom lines that are cash flow positive. But that's not the case virtually all of the time. Really, only the distributors that are looking to profit/get a discount are buying these MLM prodcts for the most part. The market has decided to buy these similar products outside of MLM, and the choice is largely based on price. The non MLM products are not generic, no frills goods, so the customer doesn't feel that they're getting less of a value with the conventional product than they would be getting if they went with the MLM instead.

  13. #13
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    They're essentially the same. How many different lotion and potion MLM's are out there? How many similar products exist outside of MLM? It's the MLM's that put out these products to try and capture market share from the conventional brick and mortar/online stores.

    For example, these VOIP MLM's get absolutely crushed by mainstream business such as Vonage and Verizon. Let's say that an MLM does do well, the major brands can simply lower their prices and get their customers back. They can sell them at a loss for a little while if they have to.

    If what you said above is true, more MLM's would have bottom lines that are cash flow positive. But that's not the case virtually all of the time. Really, only the distributors that are looking to profit/get a discount are buying these MLM prodcts for the most part. The market has decided to buy these similar products outside of MLM, and the choice is largely based on price. The non MLM products are not generic, no frills goods, so the customer doesn't feel that they're getting less of a value with the conventional product than they would be getting if they went with the MLM instead.

    Of course they're not essentially the same (and how would you know anyway?); you can get $5 skin creams and you can get $100 ones in the stores and both have their buyers.
    Do you think you're really cut out for business boxy?
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  14. #14
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    Of course they're not essentially the same (and how would you know anyway?); you can get $5 skin creams and you can get $100 ones in the stores and both have their buyers.
    Do you think you're really cut out for business boxy?
    The $100 skin cream in the store may be $125 or higher as an MLM product. The $5 skin cream in the store may be six-seven bucks or higher as an MLM product.

    If you're selling the $100 cream for $125, and only getting back ten bucks of that margin from the company, you aren't going to be in business for very long. Don't forget that you need to hit a quota before you get paid at all, and that you're also paying a startup fee and other periodic fees.

    Basically, you can bring up virtually any store product, and it's MLM counterpart will be more expensive, due to the reintermediation factor. The $5 skin cream and the $100 skin cream do have their buyers, but they're not going to pay $125 and $7 respectivelly for similar products, especially if they already like what they're using.

  15. #15
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm126 View Post
    The $100 skin cream in the store may be $125 or higher as an MLM product. The $5 skin cream in the store may be six-seven bucks or higher as an MLM product.

    If you're selling the $100 cream for $125, and only getting back ten bucks of that margin from the company, you aren't going to be in business for very long. Don't forget that you need to hit a quota before you get paid at all, and that you're also paying a startup fee and other periodic fees.

    Basically, you can bring up virtually any store product, and it's MLM counterpart will be more expensive, due to the reintermediation factor. The $5 skin cream and the $100 skin cream do have their buyers, but they're not going to pay $125 and $7 respectivelly for similar products, especially if they already like what they're using.

    I suppose you know that your old company Amway has one of the biggest skin care lines in the world, Artistry? You really set yourself up don't you...
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  16. #16
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    Re: Is MLM/network marketing simple?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    I suppose you know that your old company Amway has one of the biggest skin care lines in the world, Artistry? You really set yourself up don't you...
    How many people outside of the network are buying Artistry products? How many in the network are buying these products instead of cheaper products of at least comparable quality just for the potential financial baenefits?

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