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Thread: Is ACN a scam

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Is ACN a scam

    Out of All Network Marketing Opportunities ACN has got it right. Others get paid to recruit others into their network and push to sell, sell, and sell the product each month. If new product or reps are sold and brought in the money stops. I have found ACN to be very different.
    Signing up reps under you. No one makes any money to just have others signup. Any bonus for a new rep is only earned after they make an established a minimum of customers. And the person who signed them up will only get credit if that person is established. Every Up line bonus is based not on a total of people in or for new customers. You will not make any short or long term money by just getting people involved. This in intentional. Also there is a consistent attitude with everyone involved. I have met other all over the US. I have called for help all the times from all levels of Reps. None of them will EVER make a dime off of my success. In many other MLM I have been in. They all have one strong thread. They all throw you out there with not much. The only ones to care to help are those who will only profit from you efforts.
    Donald Trump recently endorsed ACN as something "I feel is a better opportunity to make money then Real Estate. I like real Estate but this I feel is better." When he was considering endorsing ACN he sends a large camera crew to film an interview anyone in any of their home offices all over the world. They did this every day for 6 months. He has no ownership, stock or investment in ACN for the endorsement. Do you think he would put his reputation as a multi billionaire at risk for it?
    Others think any network marketing is a scam. The only difference between this and a franchise is a person is also allowed to directly offer the opportunity not just the main company. When franchises first were offered the government was 1 vote short of making it illegal.
    The other think ACN has going for them is their service. Phone, Voice, DSL, and not VOIP & Video phones at rates that is comparable or less than others. At least this is something everyone is using and is in need of. In 2007 ACN is offering Wireless service though Verizon at a discount rate. Verizon will even be letting you get out of your contract early without any penalty for switching. They made 500 million last year and are estimating in 2007 to be at 1 billion. Hear in the US they have less than 5% of the market. In Europe they have around 45% of the market. I have read through many of these A.C.N Scam messages posted. All of them have mentioned half the truth. Leaving out all the information to strictly back up their point. Others who have failed are saying it’s a scam though this and others was a way to get rich quick. They didn’t get rich quick, gave up. And are now pissed out them self. Why because it does work. It can work for anyone. DO NOT get into any network marketing thinking it a fast money maker it not. “Success comes in working clothes” George Zalucki. You have to work at it. The best part if you time you do put into it will be paying off for you every month down the road. It easy to move one you have the momentum. The hardest part for everyone is simple to start to move. It takes most of your energy to get going in the beginning. These critics that complain give up after taking a few steps failing a few times and not bothering to keep trying because no one cared to help them.
    For my first months I was asked not to get up to speed with all the information to present it. Other reps, with nothing to gain offered to explain the services, explain the opportunity on a 1 to 1 with anyone I came across that I though could use it. No rush to get out there. Just listen until I was conferrable enough with knowing what I needed and was confident to speak to others. Has anyone else found a network marketing company that doesn’t offer but insists on doing most of the work for you , with nothing EVER to gain until you feel ready?

    Michael

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    1,251

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    Out of All Network Marketing Opportunities ACN has got it right. Others get paid to recruit others into their network and push to sell, sell, and sell the product each month. If new product or reps are sold and brought in the money stops. I have found ACN to be very different.
    Michael... please tell me you're kidding. You must be new in ACN and don't know their comp plan very well. If you sell, sell, and sell the product each month... and that is what you focus on... you will make basically nothing. For instance... my mom had over 40 personal customers but only one rep... she got a $13 check every 6 months.

    The way ACN's comp plan is designed... you have to recruit 2 people EVERY month right from the beginning to even get paid $100 a month.


    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    Signing up reps under you. No one makes any money to just have others signup. Any bonus for a new rep is only earned after they make an established a minimum of customers. And the person who signed them up will only get credit if that person is established. Every Up line bonus is based not on a total of people in or for new customers. You will not make any short or long term money by just getting people involved. This in intentional. Also there is a consistent attitude with everyone involved. I have met other all over the US. I have called for help all the times from all levels of Reps. None of them will EVER make a dime off of my success. In many other MLM I have been in. They all have one strong thread. They all throw you out there with not much. The only ones to care to help are those who will only profit from you efforts.
    I used to say this same EXACT thing when I was in ACN. Check my posts from Nov. of 2004... you'll see what I mean. People would say that ACN was recruiting-based... and I'd say "no way! no bonuses get paid out until customers are aquired" Now, that may be true... but if that weren't, they'd be an illegal pyramid scam.. so they HAVE to make you get customers.

    Based on ACN's comp plan, which has changed about 5-6 times in the past 2 years, they went from making people get 20 customers to hit ETT... to making them get 5.. (it might be up to 7 or 8 now.. I don't remember). Now tell me again that they care THAT MUCH about customer aquisition when they've lowered the qualifications that much.

    What's also sad is that this actually makes it HARDER (than when I was in) to hit the upper positions. Why? Because people are required to get less customers. It's pretty common knowledge that most people will only do what's required of them. This means that you have to RECRUIT a LOOOOT more people to get enough customers to hit TC and above.

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    Donald Trump recently endorsed ACN as something "I feel is a better opportunity to make money then Real Estate. I like real Estate but this I feel is better." When he was considering endorsing ACN he sends a large camera crew to film an interview anyone in any of their home offices all over the world. They did this every day for 6 months. He has no ownership, stock or investment in ACN for the endorsement. Do you think he would put his reputation as a multi billionaire at risk for it?
    Ahhhh Donald Trump... it's still being debated as to why he even signed with ACN. But I will say that his signing with ACN means a lot to the entire network marketing industry.

    and you'd better believe he has SOME sort of investment with ACN. He didn't hand ACN his name for nothing. I'd also like to see where he said that ACN is better than real estate. Somehow I don't believe that was ever said... and if he DID say that... I doubt he meant it. Even though that statement would be good for the industry... I just don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    Others think any network marketing is a scam. The only difference between this and a franchise is a person is also allowed to directly offer the opportunity not just the main company. When franchises first were offered the government was 1 vote short of making it illegal.
    Yes... there are some people who hate the entire network marketing industry. I think most of those people either failed at it.. or don't understand that you CAN work it without harrassing people and without losing money... IF you find the right company and the right upline sponsor... OR they just don't like the business model. To each his own, I guess. Personally, I love network marketing.

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    The other think ACN has going for them is their service. Phone, Voice, DSL, and not VOIP & Video phones at rates that is comparable or less than others. At least this is something everyone is using and is in need of. In 2007 ACN is offering Wireless service though Verizon at a discount rate. Verizon will even be letting you get out of your contract early without any penalty for switching. They made 500 million last year and are estimating in 2007 to be at 1 billion. Hear in the US they have less than 5% of the market. In Europe they have around 45% of the market.
    Yes... ACN does have awesome services. I will admit that. It's too bad they don't pay you better for selling them. Some may think it's good... but I'm not too fond of the .0025% you get paid for MOST of your services (that's right... MOST of them.. they aren't on the 7th level). I seriously think you need to study your comp plan and compare it with other companies.

    But.. that's the problem with service-based MLMs, though. They CAN'T pay good residuals. Their market is too competitive and the services aren't unique to the hundreds of others out there. Heck... there are quite a few of these companies now that have ALL of the services bundled... telecom, cable, and utilities. ACN's been saying they're going to do that for years now. I've only seen them bundle local/long distance, and internet.

    They've also been saying that cell phones would be out at such and such a date for over 2 years now. I hope they finally release them this time.


    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    I have read through many of these A.C.N Scam messages posted. All of them have mentioned half the truth. Leaving out all the information to strictly back up their point. Others who have failed are saying it’s a scam though this and others was a way to get rich quick. They didn’t get rich quick, gave up. And are now pissed out them self.
    Can you point out to me the half-truths that were said in the other ACN threads? I'd love to hear it. Personally, I feel I've been VERY honest when it comes to ACN. I know that speaking negatively about one company speaks negatively about the entire industry sometimes, but I just can't help it with ACN. It actually breaks my heart when I hear of someone getting into that company because I KNOW what that company is like.

    You do not know how many people I've seen work their butts off in ACN.. following the system... only to end up losing A LOT of money. Then when they move to another company with a better comp plan, they do very very well! Do you think it was because of they weren't trying in ACN? No... it's because ACN is all about one-time recruiting bonuses. THAT is where the money comes from. When you have a slow period where you can't find people to pay out $499 just to be able to sell the services... you make jack squat. I know this... I've actually SEEN it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    Why because it does work. It can work for anyone. DO NOT get into any network marketing thinking it a fast money maker it not. “Success comes in working clothes” George Zalucki. You have to work at it. The best part if you time you do put into it will be paying off for you every month down the road. It easy to move one you have the momentum. The hardest part for everyone is simple to start to move. It takes most of your energy to get going in the beginning. These critics that complain give up after taking a few steps failing a few times and not bothering to keep trying because no one cared to help them.
    Network marketing in general is a great industry. I do believe it CAN work for anyone if they put their mind to it. They might have to change some things about themselves, and it will be hard, but it CAN work. The trick, as I've said before, is to find the RIGHT company and the RIGHT upline sponsor. I agree with what you're saying about network marketing in general... but I do NOT agree with what you've said about ACN.

    ACN does have GREAT leadership. So if you're looking for a mentor, you're in the right place... however, if it's money you're looking for... you could make 3 times more (at a minimum) in other companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by level7
    For my first months I was asked not to get up to speed with all the information to present it. Other reps, with nothing to gain offered to explain the services, explain the opportunity on a 1 to 1 with anyone I came across that I though could use it. No rush to get out there. Just listen until I was conferrable enough with knowing what I needed and was confident to speak to others. Has anyone else found a network marketing company that doesn’t offer but insists on doing most of the work for you , with nothing EVER to gain until you feel ready?

    Michael
    I want you to know that there are a LOT of network marketing companies out there that give the kind of help you're getting. That isn't exclusive to ACN.

    and to answer your question, yes... I've found a network marketing company that does a lot of the work for us. Our upline leader was even so gracious as to build a website that contains videos that do an ENTIRE presentation. This means that we do NOT have to do any presentations... we just send people to the website, and the videos tell them everything they need to know. It also contains it's own back office with EXCELLENT training. This isn't a company-wide thing... it's just something our upline leader has done for us. I guess that's the benefit of having such an awesome upline.
    I do not believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business model. I believe it's the shady people in MLM that make it LOOK bad. As long as you work hard, run your business ethically, and work with ethical people, then MLM can help you reach your financial goals... whether it's just to make extra money on the side or a full-time income.

    "Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience."

    Pink Zebra Sprinkles

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    1,251

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Sorry if I've went off on a tangent, folks. It's just this company brings up a lot of emotion for me. It's very personal... and it's caused me more trouble than any of you know. ...and before anyone says it... no I am not bitter because I "failed," because I honestly don't think that I "failed" in ACN.


    Michael, just a question (or two), but how long have you actually been in ACN? Also, you say you were in other MLM companies.. what were they?
    I do not believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business model. I believe it's the shady people in MLM that make it LOOK bad. As long as you work hard, run your business ethically, and work with ethical people, then MLM can help you reach your financial goals... whether it's just to make extra money on the side or a full-time income.

    "Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience."

    Pink Zebra Sprinkles

  4. #4
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    Re: Is ACN a scam

    I Tried This Company In The Late 80's Or Early 90's When They Were In Utah Or Nevada....evidently...still A Scam. I Lost Around 100.00

  5. #5
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    Apr 2006
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    Re: Is ACN a scam

    I will repost a response on here that I wrote on another forum.



    "I used to be involved in ACN. It was my first Network Marketing company. I will give you as much as of a unbiased view as possible. Let me first say that ACN has INCREDIBLE LEADERSHIP AND TRAINING. Their national conventions and regional events are very inspiring and down to the core training. With that being said...it was a GREAT learning experience and self-development period in my life.

    From the business standpoint you need to look at what your personal goals are going into this industry. You need to figure out whether you are looking to generate long lasting true residual income or if your looking to make a killing off of the recruitment of others. It is very IMPORTANT to pick a company that has some what of a duplicatable system. Of course, not everyone or anyone will follow the system that is implemented to a tee. I can tell you from first hand experience that ACN's recruitment bonuses are the best out there. This could be good or bad. It's all your personal prespective. I can tell you that recruiting others and making them drop 499.99 isin't something a lot people are willing to do. I recruited and did pretty well as did my team from that aspect but people weren't sticking people they didn't want to ask someone for 499.99 to market someone else's product.

    One reason MOST people get involved in this industry is because you have the OPPORTUNITY to create RESIDUAL INCOME. This is what you really need to look at.

    When I was involved in ACN their residuals in my personal opinion were extremely poor. It is possible to earn upto 10% on your personally acquired customers. That sounds GREAT, but think about it. They have a tier system for personal customers. When your total volume goes up, your percentage goes up. Let's the say average phone bill local/long distance bundled was 50.00. In order to receive that 10% they tell you about at meetings, it would take you 200 (yes I said 200 which is 400 points) personally acquired customers to be eligible for that 10%. I would say less than 5% of the RVPs have that many personally enrolled customers. So, really your looking at receiving 1% on your personal customers. You recieve 1% until you hit $2000,00.00 in personal volume. In order to qualify for your first earned position you need 7 points which is basically 4 local/long distant bundles. What does that come out to? On a $50.00 bill you would be receiving .50 cents per personal customer. Now lets look at the percentages you earn for your downline (team members). On levels 1-5 you receive 1/4% (that is one quarter of one percent not 25 percent). Think about this....if you have 1 million dollars ($1,000,000.00) of billing in levels 1-5 you would earn $2,500.00 montly in residuals. That would be over 20,000 local/long distance customers. If everyone in your team got what it took to be qualified that would mean it would take around 2,857 reps throughout levels 1-5 in order to generate $2,500.00 in monthly residuals (from customers). At presentations they will tell you the POWER is in the 7th level. They call this being "7th level qualified". As you know many people in this industry never reach the 7th level. They tell you that most of your customers will fall on your 7th level. Which is TRUE, if you build a long term team. However, when the cards are stacked against you with these residuals people will soon realize that the very reason they got in (residuals) is not exsistant.

    You really need to ask yourself what you are looking for in a company. If you are looking for a solid income off of the sole recruitment of other people then YES go with ACN. ACN has very high payouts (except for when you get cut off on production in your downline WHEN YOU HELP THEM SUCCEED.) The second you have a team member reach your position, you are no longer eligible to receive recruitment checks on their new rep production. It's a catch 22 if you ask me. My logic tells me that it would make sense to REWARD those who help others succeed.

    If you are looking for a company that can generate some true residual income. I would look elsewhere. There are other companies that will pay you much more for the services/products that this industry provides. There are some companies that when you really look into it will pay you around 10% of your total 7 level (in a unilevel) volume. The example above showed $1,000,000.00 in billing in those levels that would get you with $2,500.00 with ACN. With a company that even pays out 5% you would be receiving $50,000.00 in monthly residuals. I can tell you that once peolpe who got in realize that the residuals aren't there they will drop. Unless...

    They stick around for the leadership. I will say with 100% confidence that ACN has some of the BEST training out there. Their Founders are great people. Some of the Top RVPs are absolutly incredible people. Amazing people. Some of the best people I know. But in the end of the day, numbers don't lie.

    Let me know if I can help.

    The question I have for you is...

    Are you looking for recruitment money?
    Are you looking for true residual income?

    What exactly are YOU looking for?

    You need to sit down and think about it. It's an important decision. You will know when you find the right company. Best Of Luck."


    Attract Prosperity,

    Bobby
    FYL's response to ACNs revenue their 5th year in business:

    Originally Posted by freeyourlife
    ACN did in the 100's of millions.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    631

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I will repost a response on here that I wrote on another forum.

    "I used to be involved in ACN. It was my first Network Marketing company. I will give you as much as of a unbiased view as possible. Let me first say that ACN has INCREDIBLE LEADERSHIP AND TRAINING. Their national conventions and regional events are very inspiring and down to the core training. With that being said...it was a GREAT learning experience and self-development period in my life.

    From the business standpoint you need to look at what your personal goals are going into this industry. You need to figure out whether you are looking to generate long lasting true residual income or if your looking to make a killing off of the recruitment of others. It is very IMPORTANT to pick a company that has some what of a duplicatable system. Of course, not everyone or anyone will follow the system that is implemented to a tee. I can tell you from first hand experience that ACN's recruitment bonuses are the best out there. This could be good or bad. It's all your personal prespective. I can tell you that recruiting others and making them drop 499.99 isin't something a lot people are willing to do. I recruited and did pretty well as did my team from that aspect but people weren't sticking people they didn't want to ask someone for 499.99 to market someone else's product.

    One reason MOST people get involved in this industry is because you have the OPPORTUNITY to create RESIDUAL INCOME. This is what you really need to look at.

    When I was involved in ACN their residuals in my personal opinion were extremely poor. It is possible to earn upto 10% on your personally acquired customers. That sounds GREAT, but think about it. They have a tier system for personal customers. When your total volume goes up, your percentage goes up. Let's the say average phone bill local/long distance bundled was 50.00. In order to receive that 10% they tell you about at meetings, it would take you 200 (yes I said 200 which is 400 points) personally acquired customers to be eligible for that 10%. I would say less than 5% of the RVPs have that many personally enrolled customers. So, really your looking at receiving 1% on your personal customers. You recieve 1% until you hit $2000,00.00 in personal volume. In order to qualify for your first earned position you need 7 points which is basically 4 local/long distant bundles. What does that come out to? On a $50.00 bill you would be receiving .50 cents per personal customer. Now lets look at the percentages you earn for your downline (team members). On levels 1-5 you receive 1/4% (that is one quarter of one percent not 25 percent). Think about this....if you have 1 million dollars ($1,000,000.00) of billing in levels 1-5 you would earn $2,500.00 montly in residuals. That would be over 20,000 local/long distance customers. If everyone in your team got what it took to be qualified that would mean it would take around 2,857 reps throughout levels 1-5 in order to generate $2,500.00 in monthly residuals (from customers). At presentations they will tell you the POWER is in the 7th level. They call this being "7th level qualified". As you know many people in this industry never reach the 7th level. They tell you that most of your customers will fall on your 7th level. Which is TRUE, if you build a long term team. However, when the cards are stacked against you with these residuals people will soon realize that the very reason they got in (residuals) is not exsistant.

    You really need to ask yourself what you are looking for in a company. If you are looking for a solid income off of the sole recruitment of other people then YES go with ACN. ACN has very high payouts (except for when you get cut off on production in your downline WHEN YOU HELP THEM SUCCEED.) The second you have a team member reach your position, you are no longer eligible to receive recruitment checks on their new rep production. It's a catch 22 if you ask me. My logic tells me that it would make sense to REWARD those who help others succeed.

    If you are looking for a company that can generate some true residual income. I would look elsewhere. There are other companies that will pay you much more for the services/products that this industry provides. There are some companies that when you really look into it will pay you around 10% of your total 7 level (in a unilevel) volume. The example above showed $1,000,000.00 in billing in those levels that would get you with $2,500.00 with ACN. With a company that even pays out 5% you would be receiving $50,000.00 in monthly residuals. I can tell you that once peolpe who got in realize that the residuals aren't there they will drop. Unless...

    They stick around for the leadership. I will say with 100% confidence that ACN has some of the BEST training out there. Their Founders are great people. Some of the Top RVPs are absolutly incredible people. Amazing people. Some of the best people I know. But in the end of the day, numbers don't lie.

    Let me know if I can help.

    The question I have for you is...

    Are you looking for recruitment money?
    Are you looking for true residual income?

    What exactly are YOU looking for?

    You need to sit down and think about it. It's an important decision. You will know when you find the right company. Best Of Luck."


    Attract Prosperity,

    Bobby
    Interesting analysis, but I have to ask just one question: what makes these guys such "incredible leaders"? The fact that they work hard to make money? Because those platitudes are thrown around in this industry way too often, and for no good reason. ANY person who has a downline in MLM is SUPPOSED to help their people because that's how they make their money. There is nothing altruistic about it, and it doesn't make them good leaders or give them the famous "integrity" everyone loves to talk about. Rather, they are simply good salespeople looking to make a buck. That's not an indictment, just a fact. Simple as that.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2006
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    224

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    Interesting analysis, but I have to ask just one question: what makes these guys such "incredible leaders"? The fact that they work hard to make money? Because those platitudes are thrown around in this industry way too often, and for no good reason. ANY person who has a downline in MLM is SUPPOSED to help their people because that's how they make their money. There is nothing altruistic about it, and it doesn't make them good leaders or give them the famous "integrity" everyone loves to talk about. Rather, they are simply good salespeople looking to make a buck. That's not an indictment, just a fact. Simple as that.



    Open- That was an awesome response. A response that I agree with for the most part.

    A leader is an individual who leads or guides someone. This world is filled with great leaders who lead others to positive places, and then there are those leaders who lead others down the negative road.

    I should have clarified my point, I apoligize for not doing so. When I look at them as great leaders, I look at them as in INSPIRING others to realize their full potential. Notice I didn't say motivate. Who ever tells you they can motivate someone else has no clue as to what they are talking about. We can inspire others, but motivation comes from within oneself. I wasn't near the person I am today without learning from some of my great mentors and leaders in life. Whether it be from Jesus, ACN, or the books I read. I believe there is great ACN training for the people who make the decision for THEMSELVES to participate in ACN and to continue in ACN.

    Also, I do completely understand when you say that uplines and leaders have a vested interest in their downlines production because in the end that is what makes us money. But, this is only from personal experiences. What I have found is that the more I focus on helping others succeed and advance in our company and the industry, the more it pays of. I think before anything, we must realize that this is a people industry and a people business. That's what attracted ME to the business. I like helping others. There ARE people in this industry who take advantage of that in the wrong way. If you have a genuine care for the success of those you bring in---it will come back to you. I do agree that there are some scumbags out there. No question about that. But that's why you try not to deal with those people. And, if you eventually find that your dealing with one. PICK UP AND GO. I can say that from first hand experience. That's exactly what I did. I didn't let some guy who screwed me over ruin my vision and goals. Sure, it hurts. But if your goals are that strong you will find a way.


    To summarize my points. ACN has great ACN leaders (and some are great people and life leaders). And, wanting success for your team members is an important aspect in this business because in the end that is how we succeed.

    Thanks again Open. That was a great response!


    Bobby
    Last edited by PowerOfCards; 08-02-2006 at 08:45 PM.
    FYL's response to ACNs revenue their 5th year in business:

    Originally Posted by freeyourlife
    ACN did in the 100's of millions.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    631

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    A leader is an individual who leads or guides someone. This world is filled with great leaders who lead others to positive places, and then there are those leaders who lead others down the negative road.
    A key distinction, I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    Also, I do completely understand when you say that uplines and leaders have a vested interest in their downlines production because in the end that is what makes us money. But, this is only from personal experiences. What I have found is that the more I focus on helping others succeed and advance in our company and the industry, the more it pays of. I think before anything, we must realize that this is a people industry and a people business. That's what attracted ME to the business. I like helping others. There ARE people in this industry who take advantage of that in the wrong way. If you have a genuine care for the success of those you bring in---it will come back to you. I do agree that there are some scumbags out there. No question about that. But that's why you try not to deal with those people. And, if you eventually find that your dealing with one. PICK UP AND GO. I can say that from first hand experience. That's exactly what I did. I didn't let some guy who screwed me over ruin my vision and goals. Sure, it hurts. But if your goals are that strong you will find a way.
    I guess it's all about what you are willing to do, how far you are willing to go, how much you are willing to step into deception (you know the numbers) in order to achieve "a better life". I know there are plenty of folks out there like you who have nothing but the best of intentions. But there are FAR too many of the "scumbags" you describe out there in this industry. And that fact alone is enough to keep me away from it. There are far too many better things for me to be doing.

    I will say that I did meet some of the most inspirational people I know in this industry (one in particular). However, the ones who were "real" are simply no longer in the industry at all. They just didn't want to be what they needed to become in order to achieve success in MLM. That was their call. It was mine as well.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    A key distinction, I think.

    I guess it's all about what you are willing to do, how far you are willing to go, how much you are willing to step into deception (you know the numbers) in order to achieve "a better life". I know there are plenty of folks out there like you who have nothing but the best of intentions. But there are FAR too many of the "scumbags" you describe out there in this industry. And that fact alone is enough to keep me away from it. There are far too many better things for me to be doing.

    I will say that I did meet some of the most inspirational people I know in this industry (one in particular). However, the ones who were "real" are simply no longer in the industry at all. They just didn't want to be what they needed to become in order to achieve success in MLM. That was their call. It was mine as well.

    Open,

    As they say "different strokes for different folks". It's my personal opinion, that the numbers could change. Yes, it's no secret that there is a large drop out rate in MLM. People really need to ask themselves though...is it because of the person or the company? I don't think that argument will ever have a middle ground. It's also known in this world that a large amount of the wealth is owned by a small percentage of the people. I think again, there is a reason for it, and I believe that there is a good reason. But again that argument usually doesn't have a middle ground either. People find their passions in live in different avenues.

    I really enjoy your posts and your reason. It's good to know there are people here who actually like to hold conversations.


    The best to you Open!

    Bobby
    Last edited by PowerOfCards; 08-02-2006 at 09:22 PM.
    FYL's response to ACNs revenue their 5th year in business:

    Originally Posted by freeyourlife
    ACN did in the 100's of millions.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    631

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    As they say "different strokes for different folks". It's my personal opinion, that the numbers could change. Yes, it's no secret that there is a large drop out rate in MLM. People really need to ask themselves though...is it because of the person or the company?
    My position is that it doesn't matter which. If "most" people are going to fail at this, then by definition, it HAS to be a very difficult business to build, because you need lots of people being successful in order to build it and make any real money. I just don't feel it was worth the effort. Again, my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I don't think that argument will ever have a middle ground. It's also known in this world that a large amount of the wealth is owned by a small percentage of the people. I think again, there is a reason for it, and I believe that there is a good reason. But again that argument usually doesn't have a middle ground either. People find their passions in live in different avenues.
    I'm assuming that your reason why a small percentage have the wealth is because a small percentage are smart/good enough to earn it? If that's the case, then my initial argument applies here as well.

    The fact is that most people will fail at ANY commissioned sales business. And this is a commissioned sales business. If you don't like sales, stay away. Why do we constantly see ads for car salespeople and insurance sales people in the papers? MLM, however, loves to paint this business as a "cause" rather than a sales job. That's because "causes" are easier to sell than sales.

    And please, no one come back to me with the "sharing" thing. That is a METHOD of sales, not an excuse why the business is NOT sales. Here's how to tell if you are in sales or not (answer honestly): are you paid a commission when someone buys a product? If the answer is "yes", you are in sales. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I really enjoy your posts and your reason. It's good to know there are people here who actually like to hold conversations.

    The best to you Open!

    Bobby
    Thanks, and best to you. I try to be respectful in most cases, and I appreciate your demeanor here as well.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    224

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Open,

    Great response. One thing I make sure to tell everyone is, "Every transaction in life where there is a product/service moved from one person to another IS A SALE". Anyone who tells you different is a liar. Sharing IS a form of sales.

    I guess I think differently than most people though. I don't see "Sales" as a bad or negative thing. The fact is, people will always be buying. It doesn't matter WHAT it is, people will always be out there looking for products/services. As you said, usually a small percentage of the salesforce contributes for most of the sales and there is a very good reason for that. Those are the people who realize that there is always something being sold and that being the "salesman" is simply helping a prospect or individual find the right fit for them (whatever the product may be).


    Unlike other people, I will explain why I tell people to SHARE. If you can GENUINELY seperate yourself from the OUTCOME of a sale/share that will dramatically take the pressure off of yourself as the salesman AND the decision of the prospect. Too many people in sales and the MLM industry try to BEG people to see the opportunity and join up. That is a complete waste of time, and those are the people who take rejection personal. I will not get caught up in the decision when I share my companies information with a prospect. They either "see" it (the opportunity) or they don't. If I have to force them in, then I have to force them to take the product/service, force them to get people people out/and force them to want success. THAT WON'T HAPPEN. Nor am I willing to waste my time and let that happen. I understand it's a numbers game, and I understand that not everyone will see it as being a "fit" for them. That is "A-OKAY" with me. I would rather spend my time with someone who has shown intrest in generating another income or taking my product. Those are the people who will produce. A large number of people who fail in this industry are the people who were forced by a friend/family member/or stranger to join. The enroller knew from that start they were setting that person up to fail by forcing them in. I do agree that those people need to re-evaluate why they are in this industry. I can also say that a large number of those people who force people in their team never experience success either.

    I believe it takes a certain kind of person to sell. I will be the first to say that. I think the person HAS to have a genuine intrest in other people period. That is the bottom line, if you go into the MLM industry and do nothiing but look out for yourself you WILL fail.

    So, I would agree with you that the idea of "sharing" is a form of "sales" which I am completely fine with. It's a much lower pressure form of sales, and generally tends to bring back better results.

    I don't think people should join MLM just to help their friend out, that won't help anything and you'll spend money that you don't want to spend.




    Bobby
    Last edited by PowerOfCards; 08-02-2006 at 09:59 PM.
    FYL's response to ACNs revenue their 5th year in business:

    Originally Posted by freeyourlife
    ACN did in the 100's of millions.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    631

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I guess I think differently than most people though. I don't see "Sales" as a bad or negative thing.
    Me neither. I just have a problem when people refuse to call it what it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    Unlike other people, I will explain why I tell people to SHARE. If you can GENUINELY seperate yourself from the OUTCOME of a sale/share that will dramatically take the pressure off of yourself as the salesman AND the decision of the prospect. Too many people in sales and the MLM industry try to BEG people to see the opportunity and join up. That is a complete waste of time, and those are the people who take rejection personal. I will not get caught up in the decision when I share my companies information with a prospect. They either "see" it (the opportunity) or they don't. If I have to force them in, then I have to force them to take the product/service, force them to get people people out/and force them to want success. THAT WON'T HAPPEN. Nor am I willing to waste my time and let that happen. I understand it's a numbers game, and I understand that not everyone will see it as being a "fit" for them. That is "A-OKAY" with me. I would rather spend my time with someone who has shown intrest in generating another income or taking my product. Those are the people who will produce. A large number of people who fail in this industry are the people who were forced by a friend/family member/or stranger to join. The enroller knew from that start they were setting that person up to fail by forcing them in. I do agree that those people need to re-evaluate why they are in this industry. I can also say that a large number of those people who force people in their team never experience success either.
    This is all MLM 101 to me, honestly. I was highly trained in all those things (by ACN, by the way). But I don't believe anyone could ever be "forced" into the business as you describe. Rather, I think people are SEDUCED into the business by the promise of things that they could never in reality achieve. Don't know who you can blame for that, but I think it's the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I believe it takes a certain kind of person to sell. I will be the first to say that. I think the person HAS to have a genuine intrest in other people period. That is the bottom line, if you go into the MLM industry and do nothiing but look out for yourself you WILL fail.
    Do you really need an "interest in other people" to sell, or do you really only need an interest in making a profit? I think that an interest in other people might make someone a more honest or successful salesperson, but there are PLENTY of swine out there who don't give a rats butt about other people, but who still make a LOT of money selling. I've met them.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    So, I would agree with you that the idea of "sharing" is a form of "sales" which I am completely fine with. It's a much lower pressure form of sales, and generally tends to bring back better results.
    No argument there.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfCards
    I don't think people should join MLM just to help their friend out, that won't help anything and you'll spend money that you don't want to spend.
    And there.




    Bobby[/QUOTE]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    A key distinction, I think.

    I guess it's all about what you are willing to do, how far you are willing to go, how much you are willing to step into deception (you know the numbers) in order to achieve "a better life". I know there are plenty of folks out there like you who have nothing but the best of intentions. But there are FAR too many of the "scumbags" you describe out there in this industry. And that fact alone is enough to keep me away from it. There are far too many better things for me to be doing.

    I will say that I did meet some of the most inspirational people I know in this industry (one in particular). However, the ones who were "real" are simply no longer in the industry at all. They just didn't want to be what they needed to become in order to achieve success in MLM. That was their call. It was mine as well.
    What do you have to become?
    long term goals with short term ACTION

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    631

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by M2CG
    What do you have to become?
    You don't need me to tell you. You'll figure it out in time. It's just my opinion, anyway.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    Quote Originally Posted by openQuestion
    You don't need me to tell you. You'll figure it out in time. It's just my opinion, anyway.
    in your opinion,not my opinion in time,What are you a politician ? lol My OPINION your opinion deserves respect.My opinion there are many opinions on A.C.N. AND opinions on the REPS. have a great one G.D.
    long term goals with short term ACTION

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,251

    Re: Is ACN a scam

    wow... 2 of my favorite scam.com guys had quite the discussion today!

    Bobby, as usual, I think the same way you do, so I agree with what you've said here.

    Open, I always love reading posts by you and you always make great points. You're a great guy and it's a shame that the "bad seeds" soured you on the industry. Network marketing could use a few more like you (and Bobby and Franky and me) who truly want to look out for people's best interests. Maybe if there were more of us working in MLM, then the industry wouldn't have such a bad name!

    and I do believe that there are a quite a few people at the top who deserve to be there. If they've worked hard and are truly focused on helping people succeed, and that in turn has helped them to succeed, then there's nothing wrong with that. Yes I know that there are many of those who stepped on toes to get to to the top... but I'm willing to bet that you'll find that in Corporate America too.
    I do not believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business model. I believe it's the shady people in MLM that make it LOOK bad. As long as you work hard, run your business ethically, and work with ethical people, then MLM can help you reach your financial goals... whether it's just to make extra money on the side or a full-time income.

    "Never argue with an idiot. They just drag you down to their level and beat you with years of experience."

    Pink Zebra Sprinkles

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