+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 81 to 96 of 127

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    24

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post


    This doesn't sound like your account of the incident:
    You sound like you are rationalizing the story.






    Matthew 14:22-33
    I wasn't trying to rationalise anything. I was merely stating that crude interpretations of languages long since past can lead to false beliefs.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    I wasn't trying to rationalise anything. I was merely stating that crude interpretations of languages long since past can lead to false beliefs.
    I was wondering because the bible passage is pretty straight-foward in how it relates Jesus' walking on water..and his disciples were struck in wonderment by his apparent
    "ghostly" impression this act gave to them, which appears related to something much more in-line with a "supernatural' act.

    I then checked the original passage in Strong's Concordance and the related story is the same in that respect.

    So do you think that this account is a bona fide "supernatural" account, a misunderstanding of events due to either purposeful embellishments, or misrepresentation by scholars, or an illusion performed for the benefit of Jesus' disciples?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    24

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    I would say all of the above, and then some.

    The laws of the day were very strict. Perhaps seeing a man using a wharf or "walking on water" may have instilled a shock and awe type reaction from others. When Jesus got someone else to "walk on water", after which he sank into the water, may have just been a case of that person being so scared shitless, he merely jumped off the jetty for fear of being crucified. My point being, that after such a long time, and lets not forget that the first scriptures were only made decades after the death of jesus, that stories handed down form generation to generation tend to lose their authenticity while adding lots of bullshit to the mix to keep the stories interesting.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,872

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Compman View Post
    I would say all of the above, and then some.

    The laws of the day were very strict. Perhaps seeing a man using a wharf or "walking on water" may have instilled a shock and awe type reaction from others. When Jesus got someone else to "walk on water", after which he sank into the water, may have just been a case of that person being so scared shitless, he merely jumped off the jetty for fear of being crucified. My point being, that after such a long time, and lets not forget that the first scriptures were only made decades after the death of jesus, that stories handed down form generation to generation tend to lose their authenticity while adding lots of bullshit to the mix to keep the stories interesting.
    For Jesus, truth may be stranger than fiction. I crirticize the gospels based on one assumption. Jesus was God and not His son.

    Partly to support that assertion, I defer to the books of Bart D. Ehrman. With remarkable scholarship, Bart documents the case for gospel inaccuracies. I would add, Paul's writings are also false with respect to his claim that Jesus was God's first born. So, where do we find the truth about Jesus?

    Read Revelations 11 about the two witnesses. With reference to Rev. 11, note that 1,260 days equals the time of the Lord's minister which is also repeated in Rev. 12. Only in Rev. 11 and 12 of the Bible are those numbers mentioned. To discover what happend in heaven while God (Jesus) was on earth, read Revelations 12 where the angels fight Satan.

    You ask, why the two witnesses? It is because Jesus (God) is two persons in one, both equal in power, glory, and Holiness.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    The laws of the day were very strict. Perhaps seeing a man using a wharf or "walking on water" may have instilled a shock and awe type reaction from others.
    Then why isn't the gospel explaining that Jesus explained to his disciples that what they saw was only a "mirage," and not really what happened? This is a quote of his words:
    But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
    Then Peter gets out of the boat and starts to walk on the water, but hears the wind, and loses his faith and starts to sink....only to be saved by the lord. Was the wharf sinking? Did Peter miss the wharf? If it was sinking, then why didn't Jesus sink with it?

    “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
    29 “Come,” he said.

    Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

    31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
    32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
    My point being, that after such a long time, and lets not forget that the first scriptures were only made decades after the death of jesus, that stories handed down form generation to generation tend to lose their authenticity while adding lots of bullshit to the mix to keep the stories interesting.
    If this is so, (the scriptures are really full of metaphor and are inaccurate pertaining to the works of the biblical god and his son) how can folks build these emotional "molehills" into "mountains" that effectively state that Jesus and god are supernatural beings?

    Are the bible story believers ineffective at reading skills, or very effective at emotional hyperbole?

    Where do biblical stories either deny or promote Jesus' and god's supernatural powers?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    24

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post

    If this is so, (the scriptures are really full of metaphor and are inaccurate pertaining to the works of the biblical god and his son) how can folks build these emotional "molehills" into "mountains" that effectively state that Jesus and god are supernatural beings?
    Exactamundo my friend!

    If you examine how religion first began, it's a little easier to believe that "metaphor" was a commonly used communication skill of the day. Religion only exists today due to early man's inability to explain anything in the world due to a lack of scientific skills.

    "Oh! What was that loud noise? (thunder) It must have been a god." etc etc.

    From there, religion was used to instill basic moral teachings into people. Good Vs bad etc. and was seen as a good thing by the powers that be as it became easier for them to control the people of the time.

    Using metaphor was a well used communication skill in older times. "Walking on water" instead of "using a jetty" is just an example. And over a long period of time, stories become exaggerated and distorted until you now have what we know to be the bible.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,872

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    In some ways, humans in ancient societies were more advance in their thinking. Assuming there is a God, at least they got it right. Although they had limited understanding, they knew intuitively that a supernatural being creating the world.

    In our industrial world, many educated humans feel independent of any deity. They know how to function in the world, so they don't require or believe in a deity.

  8. #88
    LogicallyYours's Avatar
    LogicallyYours is offline Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,352

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    What a joke. So, assbackwards societies without advanced education, science and a knowledge of how things really happened, "got it right".

    So, in your reality, ignorance is bliss and stupidity is intelligence.

    I've got that right, correct?
    Last edited by LogicallyYours; 12-29-2011 at 05:30 PM.
    "Religion is a heavy suitcase: all you have to do is put it down."
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I have read the bible...more than once. I was not impressed nor was I so moved to give up my ability to think for myself and surrender my knowledge of facts for the unfounded belief in a mythical sky-fairy." - Me.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Religion only exists today due to early man's inability to explain anything in the world due to a lack of scientific skills.
    It looks like you and I are just about on the same page.

    Another reason it exists, I feel, has to do with a basic lack of inner security by most folks.

    From there, religion was used to instill basic moral teachings into people.
    The bible is originally meant to be a law book. So it has some good use in that it proposes morality to men.

    But the bulk of the work I feel belongs to the parents.

    There is a much older version of morality...from Hammurabi around 2500 years before Christianity....and it doesn't seem to have much of the Babylonian religion involved, either.

    I've even seen some documented evidence by some Egyptologists a while back stating that morality has been around even before the
    Egyptians, or Babylonians....in the form of it being a complementary respecting of each other, and related property.

    There are even some tribes in South America, visited in the past, that have had a basic moral code, even before outside influences.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    In some ways, humans in ancient societies were more advance in their thinking. Assuming there is a God, at least they got it right. Although they had limited understanding, they knew intuitively that a supernatural being creating the world.

    In our industrial world, many educated humans feel independent of any deity. They know how to function in the world, so they don't require or believe in a deity.

    If a basic insecurity is advanced thinking, you got that right, Cnance.
    "Limited understanding" was probably why they invented a god....to protect them from the other tribes, and from the thunder and lightning.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,872

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    If a basic insecurity is advanced thinking, you got that right, Cnance.
    "Limited understanding" was probably why they invented a god....to protect them from the other tribes, and from the thunder and lightning.
    My point is, if God exists, they got it right. Maybe that's why God communicated with Abraham and Moses, because they believed!

    Never mind, it is a waste of time pursining this line of thinking with a dedicated atheist. Oh, I'm sorry, you're an agnostic. Maybe I should qualify that. You believe in a material force, one that fits perfectly with a material world.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    My point is, if God exists, they got it right. Maybe that's why God communicated with Abraham and Moses, because they believed!
    And my point stressed before is that IF there is a "god" it will not be the god of the bible, or quran, or any other "holy book." It will probably be a god of the science book, if any.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  13. #93

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    And my point stressed before is that IF there is a "god" it will not be the god of the bible, or quran, or any other "holy book." It will probably be a god of the science book, if any.
    The God of the bible is the God of the science-book.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    The God of the bible is the God of the science-book.
    The descriptions in the bible are accounts of a "humanoid, supernatural being." There isn't any viable observations on record of any violations of the laws of physics (supernatural) that weren't exaggerations, falsehoods, delusions, or staged incidents.

    How can you make the over-exaggerated claim that the biblical god is the god written about in science books? Is this only a "feeling" that you have, or do you have proof?

    While there are accounts of the still unexplained, yet logically and mathematically viable, there are still no accounts of the supernatural, or "spirit beings" given in the science books that I've studied.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,872

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    The descriptions in the bible are accounts of a "humanoid, supernatural being." There isn't any viable observations on record of any violations of the laws of physics (supernatural) that weren't exaggerations, falsehoods, delusions, or staged incidents.

    How can you make the over-exaggerated claim that the biblical god is the god written about in science books? Is this only a "feeling" that you have, or do you have proof?

    While there are accounts of the still unexplained, yet logically and mathematically viable, there are still no accounts of the supernatural, or "spirit beings" given in the science books that I've studied.
    There are accounts of a supernatural beings in the Bible, right under your nose.

    How about this one?

    "There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in the flames of fire within a bush, Moses say that though the bush was on fired it did no burn up." Exodus 3 (2).

    There are, of course other accounts of God in the Bibe.

    Here is one of my favorites. It aas to do with seeing the face of God.

    And the Lord said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence, . . . . "But" . . . "'you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." Exodus 33 (19-20).

    It is really funny, atheist keep demanding proof, and there it is. Written proof in the
    Bible. Humans only record of God's visitation to earth.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Glendale Az
    Posts
    1,249

    Re: Watch Israel for the end of the World.

    MY POST:
    The descriptions in the bible are accounts of a "humanoid, supernatural being." There isn't any viable observations on record of any violations of the laws of physics (supernatural) that weren't exaggerations, falsehoods, delusions, or staged incidents.



    YOUR POST:

    There are accounts of a supernatural beings in the Bible, right under your nose.
    And, of course, you have undauntable proof of the viability of those sightings, and the facts supporting the evidence that they are not exaggerations....don't you?

    It is really funny, atheist keep demanding proof, and there it is. Written proof in the
    Bible.
    And its even funnier that you accept these wildly unbelievable falsehoods as true, even though they break your god's immutable laws of reality.

    Humans only record of God's visitation to earth.
    Unfortunately, the humans that recorded those biblical assertions must have been smoking something that is illegal in our times.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

Similar Threads

  1. Top Zio-Nazi Admits World Fed Up With Israel's BS
    By dchristie in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-07-2010, 03:13 PM
  2. The World is Wrong to Condemn Israel
    By Grim17 in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 11:30 AM
  3. World's Leading Sponsors Of Terror: U.S.A & Israel
    By dchristie in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2008, 08:48 AM
  4. U.S. Financial Aid to Israel vs. World
    By Ronald in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-29-2007, 05:38 PM
  5. Israel to become next world Oil Supplier powerhouse
    By Worried_in_the_USA in forum Political Scams
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-02-2006, 07:38 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •