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    The best documented experience of 'God'

    I never really like to use the word 'God" because so many people have so many meanings attached to the word and its meaning.

    Atheists have this emotional recoil knee jerk reflex to want to stop reading and to throw the baby out with the bathwater when they hear the word as I have in my past too.

    You see in my model the universe (everything that is including you) IS God and thus I can agree with the atheist and the theist alike. Youes you cannot prove it and yes it really exists.I really do not believe in God as a personality (ego) that one can talk to.

    I don't belive in a religios icon called God that will give you His wrath if you don't do His bidding. One that is jealous of other 'gods' (In the midst of its singularity) That is not a God that's a petty tyrant.

    Yet to me God exists as a complete being that includes everything including you and me and thus we also say "you are God" It's the same as saying "you are made of star stuf like everything else."

    The best way to know God is to experience it by simply being in life as it is. Here below have the best documented case of a person who tried to reason with God to some extent and also found that intelligence and knowledge really has nothing to to with worth.

    One really cannot make sense of God with a human mind but this is the best effort I saw yet.


    Enough said. Read this.

    The Near-Death Experience of Mellen-Thomas Benedict
    In 1982, I died from terminal cancer. My condition was non-operable. I chose not to have chemotherapy. I was given six to eight months to live. Before this time, I had become increasingly despondent over the nuclear crisis, the ecology crisis, and so forth. I came to believe that nature had made a mistake—that we were probably a cancerous organism on the planet. And that is what eventually killed me.

    Before my near-death experience, I tried all sorts of alternative healing methods. None helped. So I determined that this was between me and God. I had never really considered God. Neither was I into any kind of spirituality. But my approaching death sent me on a quest for more information about spirituality and alternative healing. I read various religions and philosophies. They gave hope that there was something on the other side.

    I had no medical insurance, so my life savings went overnight on tests. Unwilling to drag my family into this, I determined to handle this myself. I ended up in hospice care and was blessed with an angel for my hospice caretaker, whom I will call "Anne." She stayed with me through all that was to follow.

    Into the Light
    I woke up about 4:30 am and I knew that this was it. I was going to die. I called a few friends and said good-bye. I woke up Anne and made her promise that my dead body would remain undisturbed for six hours, since I had read that all kinds of interesting things happen when you die. I went back to sleep. The next thing I remember, I was fully aware and standing up. Yet my body was lying in the bed. I seemed to be surrounded by darkness, yet I could see every room in the house, and the roof, and even under the house.

    A Light shone. I turned toward it, and was aware of its similarity to what others have described in near-death experiences. It was magnificent and tangible, alluring. I wanted to go towards that Light like I might want to go into my ideal mother's or father's arms. As I moved towards the Light, I knew that if I went into the Light, I would be dead. So I said/felt, "Please wait. I would like to talk to you before I go."

    The entire experience halted. I discovered that I was in control of the experience. My request was honored. I had conversations with the Light. That's the best way I can describe it. The Light changed into different figures, like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, archetypal images and signs. I asked in a kind of telepathy, "What is going on here?"


    It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. It was like all the love you've ever wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates. I was ready to go at that time. I said "I am ready, take me." Then the Light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet. I saw that we are the most beautiful creations—elegant, exotic ... everything.

    I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in an instant. I said/thought/felt, "Oh, God, I didn't realize." I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul. People may do terrible things out of ignorance and lack, but no soul is evil. "What all people seek—what sustains them—is love," the Light told me. "What distorts people is a lack of love."


    The revelations went on and on. I asked, "Does this mean that Humankind will be saved?" Like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Light "spoke," saying, "You save, redeem and heal yourself. You always have and always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world." In that instant I realized that we have already been saved.

    I thanked the Light of God with all my heart. The best thing I could come up with was: "Oh dear God, dear Universe, dear Great Self, I love my Life." The Light seemed to breathe me in even more deeply, absorbing me. I entered into another realm more profound than the last, and was aware of an enormous stream of Light, vast and full, deep. I asked what it was. The Light answered, "This is the River of Life. Drink of this manna water to your heart's content." I drank deeply, in ecstasy.

    The Void of Nothingness
    Suddenly I seemed to be rocketing away from the planet on this stream of Life. I saw the earth fly away. The solar system whizzed by and disappeared. I flew through the center of the galaxy, absorbing more knowledge as I went. I learned that this galaxy—and the entire Universe—is bursting with many different varieties of life. I saw many worlds. We are not alone in this Universe. It seemed as if all the creations in the Universe soared past me and vanished in a speck of Light.

    Then a second Light appeared. As I passed into the second Light, I could perceive forever, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void, pre-Creation, the beginning of time, the first Word or vibration. I rested in the Eye of Creation and it seemed that I touched the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. I was simply at One with Absolute Life and Consciousness.

    I rode the stream directly into the center of the Light. I felt embraced by the Light as it took me in with its breath again. And the truth was obvious that there is no death; that nothing is born and nothing dies; that we are immortal beings, part of a natural living system that recycles itself endlessly.

    It would take me years to assimilate the Void experience. It was less than nothing, yet greater than anything. Creation is God exploring God's Self through every way imaginable. Through every piece of hair on your head, through every leaf on every tree, through every atom. God is exploring God's Self. I saw everything as the Self of all. God is here. That's what it is all about. Everything is made of light; everything is alive.

    The Light of Love
    I was never told that I had to come back. I just knew that I would. It was only natural, from what I had seen. As I began my return to the life cycle, it never crossed my mind, nor was I told, that I would return to the same body. It did not matter. I had complete trust in the Light and the Life process.

    As the stream merged with the great Light, I asked never to forget the revelations and the feelings of what I had learned on the other side. I thought of myself as a human again and I was happy to be that. From what I have seen, I would be happy to be an atom in this universe. An atom. So to be the human part of God ... this is the most fantastic blessing. It is a blessing beyond our wildest imagination of what a blessing can be.

    For each and every one of us to be the human part of this experience is awesome, and magnificent. Each and every one of us, no matter where we are, screwed up or not, is a blessing to the planet, right where we are. So I went through the reincarnation process expecting to be a baby somewhere.


    But I reincarnated back into this body. I was so surprised when I opened my eyes, to be back in this body, back in my room with someone looking over me, crying her eyes out. It was Anne, my hospice caretaker. She had found me dead thirty minutes before. We do not know how long I was dead, only that she found me thirty minutes before. She had honored my wish to have my newly-dead body left alone. She can verify that I really was dead.

    It was not a near-death experience. I believe I probably experienced death itself for at least an hour and a half. When I awakened and saw the light outside, confused, I tried to get up to go to it, but I fell out of the bed. She heard a loud "clunk", ran in, and found me on the floor. When I recovered, I was surprised and awed about what had happened. I had no memory at first of the experience. I kept slipping out of this world and kept asking, "Am I alive?" This world seemed more like a dream than that one.

    Within three days, I was feeling normal again, clearer, yet different than ever before. My memories of the journey came back later. But from my return I could find nothing wrong with any human being I had ever seen. Previous to my death I was judgmental, believing that people were really screwed up. Everyone but me.

    About three months later a friend said I should get tested for the cancer. So I got the scans and so forth. I felt healthy. I still remember the doctor at the clinic looking at the "before" and "after" scans. He said, "I can find no sign of cancer now." "A miracle?" I asked. "No," he answered. "These things happen ... spontaneous remission." He seemed unimpressed. But I was impressed. I knew it was a miracle.

    Lessons Learned
    I asked God: "What is the best religion on the planet? Which one is right?" God said with great love: "It doesn't matter." What an incredible grace. It does not matter what religion we are. Religions come and they go. They change. Buddhism has not been here forever, Catholicism has not been here forever, and they are all about to become more enlightened. More light is coming into all systems now. Many will resist and fight about it, one religion against the next, believing that only they are right.

    When God said, "It doesn't matter," I understood that it is for us to care about, because we are the caring beings. The Source does not care if you are Protestant, Buddhist, or Jew. Each is a reflection, a facet of the whole. I wish that all religions would realize it and let each other be. It is not the end of separate religions, but live and let live. Each has a different view, and it all adds up to the big picture.

    I went over to the other side with a lot of fears about toxic waste, nuclear missiles, the population explosion, the rain forest. I came back loving every single problem. I love nuclear waste. I love the mushroom cloud; this is the holiest mandala that we have manifested to date, as an archetype. More than any religion or philosophy on Earth, that terrible, wonderful cloud brought us together all of a sudden, to a new level of consciousness.

    Knowing that maybe we can blow up the planet fifty times, or 500 times, we finally realize that maybe we are all here together now. For a period they had to keep setting off more bombs to get it into us. Then we started saying, "we do not need this any more." Now we are actually in a safer world than we have ever been in, and it is going to get safer.

    So I came back loving toxic waste, because it brought us together. These things are so big. Clearing of the rain forest will slow down, and in fifty years there will be more trees on the planet than in a long time. If you are into ecology, go for it; you are that part of the system that is becoming aware. Go for it with all your might, but do not be depressed or disheartened. Earth is in the process of domesticating itself, and we are cells on that Body. Population increase is getting very close to the optimal range of ****** to cause a shift in consciousness. That shift in consciousness will change politics, money, ******.

    The Great Mystery of life has little to do with intelligence. The Universe is not an intellectual process. The intellect is helpful; but our hearts are the wiser part of ourselves. Since my return I have experienced the Light spontaneously. I have learned how to get to that space almost any time in my meditation. You can also do this. You don't have to die first. You are wired for it already. The body is the most magnificent Light being there is. The body is a universe of incredible Light. We don't need to commune with God; God is already communing with us in every moment!


    For the full text of this near-death experience: www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html
    For Mellen-Thomas Benedict's personal website: www.mellen-thomas.com
    As you may have noticed. There is no way to prove the existence of God when everything is God.

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Weird dream he had.

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harutsedo View Post
    Weird dream he had.
    Strong cheese. Always does it for me.

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    Lord_jag is offline I am God because I say I am. Prove me wrong.
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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    So "God" is everything that exists and it doesn't have a personality?

    I think the word you are looking for is "Universe", not God.

    So far your description requires no requirement for anything more than what science refers to as the universe and explains nothing.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    So "God" is everything that exists and it doesn't have a personality?

    I think the word you are looking for is "Universe", not God.

    So far your description requires no requirement for anything more than what science refers to as the universe and explains nothing.
    You got it.
    Thats why spiritual and love and light people often revers to "the universe" and sometimes "God" depending on who we adress.

    If a person remains in the dogmatic world we call it "the universe" for his or her benefit because that was the first observation.

    But nothing would exist without conciousness and conciousness is In my view. "God"

    Concousness and ****** creates reality. E=mc squared.

    I know it wants to make many people run away to call "all that is" God. Just the word God made me want to run away after I fled the churches, but down the line I came to experience it in another way through other realizations.

    This universe is the dream of God. Its not real. Its conciousness projecting a reality. It can change as fast as changing ones mind, and we would not notice it because we are as much part of that reality.

    Sounds crazy I know. But if you open your mind and imagine it through you might percieve what I am trying to convey in words here.

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    Lord_jag's Avatar
    Lord_jag is offline I am God because I say I am. Prove me wrong.
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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    You got it.
    Thats why spiritual and love and light people often revers to "the universe" and sometimes "God" depending on who we adress.

    If a person remains in the dogmatic world we call it "the universe" for his or her benefit because that was the first observation.

    But nothing would exist without conciousness and conciousness is In my view. "God"

    Concousness and ****** creates reality. E=mc squared.

    I know it wants to make many people run away to call "all that is" God. Just the word God made me want to run away after I fled the churches, but down the line I came to experience it in another way through other realizations.

    This universe is the dream of God. Its not real. Its conciousness projecting a reality. It can change as fast as changing ones mind, and we would not notice it because we are as much part of that reality.

    Sounds crazy I know. But if you open your mind and imagine it through you might percieve what I am trying to convey in words here.
    No.. It doesn't sound crazy. It sounds like you are describing "The Matrix." Perhaps I should start looking around for Keanu Reaves.
    A real, honest, falsifiable claim made b.y Seer of dreams:(2011)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    I believe there will be a nuclear war in October of this year.
    Oh Cnance.... Full of shit as always.

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_jag View Post
    No.. It doesn't sound crazy. It sounds like you are describing "The Matrix." Perhaps I should start looking around for Keanu Reaves.
    I loved Matrix from the get go for that very reason. :liefde:

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    You got it.
    Thats why spiritual and love and light people often revers to "the universe" and sometimes "God" depending on who we adress.

    If a person remains in the dogmatic world we call it "the universe" for his or her benefit because that was the first observation.

    But nothing would exist without conciousness and conciousness is In my view. "God"

    Concousness and ****** creates reality. E=mc squared.

    I know it wants to make many people run away to call "all that is" God. Just the word God made me want to run away after I fled the churches, but down the line I came to experience it in another way through other realizations.

    This universe is the dream of God. Its not real. Its conciousness projecting a reality. It can change as fast as changing ones mind, and we would not notice it because we are as much part of that reality.

    Sounds crazy I know. But if you open your mind and imagine it through you might percieve what I am trying to convey in words here.
    This treatise of yours is all about personal truth....Perception, individual and complete to each and every person. John Locke had some very insightful thoughts on the subject....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...direct_realism
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    This treatise of yours is all about personal truth....Perception, individual and complete to each and every person. John Locke had some very insightful thoughts on the subject....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...direct_realism
    Yes you are correct. We all have our own personal view on everything and not one is exactly the same as anothers. Simply because we don't see with our eyes we don't hear with our ears, we don't taste with our tounges.

    Yes the senses receive frequency that they transver to signals to the brain that the mind then interprets. Our reality is an interpretation of the mind.Our brain is an interface between body and the invisible mind.

    This Wipikedia article is close to the mark but not quite. You see we don't think with that grey matter inside our heads. It appears that way but its not.We are not corporeal beings even though we use bodies.

    NDE people who traveled to places and learned things they could never have known in the physical world unless they were there at that time proves that conciousness does not need body or brain to be concious and to think.

    More proof in this case is the fact that Mellen-Thomas was clinically dead for more than an hour and a half and then woke up. Now as debatable as that may be, the mere fact that he literally returned from terminal ilness to healthy with no inkling of cancer or anything left in him, is evidence enough for me that he experienced SOMETHING that made him the wiser about life and everything.

    I maintain that it is not that something that cured him but rather his mind and what he learned from that something that cured him. One need not be able to put something into words for it to be real. If the mind cannot explain it through words it does not make it any less real. If it is in another dimention invisible to this one it does not make it any less real either.

    Oh and I learned something else too. When you die...Dont go into the light.:spin2: Its a deception.

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    eugene66 said: You see we don't think with that grey matter inside our heads. It appears that way but its not.We are not corporeal beings even though we use bodies.
    This presumption of yours is false as there is plenty of evidence for the brain(gray matter) converting human sensory impulses into feelings and into thought about our perceptions. There is no proof or evidence for the spiritual realm...this is only the product of imagination....wishing against reality with the impetus being "There must be something magical causing this" doesn't cut it.
    NDE people who traveled to places and learned things they could never have known in the physical world unless they were there at that time proves that conciousness does not need body or brain to be concious and to think.
    First of all people who claim that having a near death experience means that there is a heaven must realize that because they "died and came back to life after an hour" means nothing. Now if they've been dead for 6 months and came back to life, that would be very telling of a Heaven or a spiritual realm. This factor would rule out any other natural causes of "visions" or NDEs related to stories from beyond the grave. You see, science just doesn't make claims about the unknown until it can bring incontrovertible evidence. Science is the field of study that would be called in to investigate any and all of these claims. The fact that someone has "clinically died" is not a true test of the spiritual realm's existence as nothing has ever been observed to this point to support the claim for it to be viable.
    More proof in this case is the fact that Mellen-Thomas was clinically dead for more than an hour and a half and then woke up. Now as debatable as that may be, the mere fact that he literally returned from terminal ilness to healthy with no inkling of cancer or anything left in him, is evidence enough for me that he experienced SOMETHING that made him the wiser about life and everything
    Mis-diagnosis is common, but not always responsible. I have a friend in Florida that was correctly diagnosed with terminal cancer by three different specialists- and he made a full recovery without even undergoing any treatment regimen. Hes not a religious person, in fact he is an atheist. He never died or had a NDE, but he did see some of the most hostile fighting the Korean war had to offer. The human body is truly a strange thing....I say this simply because there is still so much to discover about it's workings...still no proof of spiritual existence. And as far as making Mr. Benedict "wiser,"we have within our brains and bodies a memory system that can call up at any time past events and pictures we may say that we never knew that we experienced but are there at any rate. Yes, the memory system is more than just the brain. It involves the whole body.
    Last edited by GHOST DOG; 05-15-2011 at 01:27 PM.
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    This presumption of yours is false as there is plenty of evidence for the brain(gray matter) converting human sensory impulses into feelings and into thought about our perceptions. There is no proof or evidence for the spiritual realm...this is only the product of imagination....wishing against reality with the impetus being "There must be something magical causing this" doesn't cut it. First of all people who claim that having a near death experience means that there is a heaven must realize that because they "died and came back to life after an hour" means nothing. Now if they've been dead for 6 months and came back to life, that would be very telling of a Heaven or a spiritual realm. This factor would rule out any other natural causes of "visions" or NDEs related to stories from beyond the grave. You see, science just doesn't make claims about the unknown until it can bring incontrovertible evidence. Science is the field of study that would be called in to investigate any and all of these claims. The fact that someone has "clinically died" is not a true test of the spiritual realm's existence as nothing has ever been observed to this point to support the claim for it to be viable. Mis-diagnosis is common, but not always responsible. I have a friend in Florida that was correctly diagnosed with terminal cancer by three different specialists- and he made a full recovery without even undergoing any treatment regimen. Hes not a religious person, in fact he is an atheist. He never died or had a NDE, but he did see some of the most hostile fighting the Korean war had to offer. The human body is truly a strange thing....I say this simply because there is still so much to discover about it's workings...still no proof of spiritual existence. And as far as making Mr. Benedict "wiser,"we have within our brains and bodies a memory system that can call up at any time past events and pictures we may say that we never knew that we experienced but are there at any rate. Yes, the memory system is more than just the brain. It involves the whole body.
    I've been this way before.

    You make a LOT of assumptions about the meaning of what I say. Creating your own delusion of my meaning.

    Adress what I said and we can maybe talk about that. I did not say anything about a heaven and I already said that science will never be able to prove this.

    Being concious after corporeal death does not prove anything other than being concious after death. It does not imply or assume anything about heaven or hell. But if one is scared of other peoples beliefs or the existence of a heaven or a hell then one would be afraid that life after death might imply a heaven or a hell. Fact is it doesn't

    Come with a clear open mind that does not create its own delusions through assumptions and you will probably see a lot more than when you assume what is being said and placing your own veil of delusion over it.

    A lot of people think this way and I am not condemning you for it. But I am also not going to spend my time and ****** running down your delusions and arguing over them.

    Science can only explain what it can. There was a time when Auras were considered airy fairy to science. Now forty years later science eventually states "There is an electro magnetic field around a human body." Now that they can "see' thoughts they say "The mind is non-local" Science will always lack behind reality because it will always be limited to what it can measure and prove according to its own set criteria of "real" There are things that the mind and science cannot fathom. Does not mean that it's not there.:rasta:

    Every thing I state has been "proven" to my satisfaction through observation. Sceintifically a bee cannot fly. But observe the bee and see it flies. If science were true then the bee does not fly and we would be dead a long time ago because we cannot have agriculture without pollenation.:rotz:

    One needs an open mind. That means going beyond limited thinking. I like science but there are areas where science does not work. Science is not the only tool we have. Its time we wake to our invisible senses too.

    If the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem will begin to look like a nail...or appear not to exist.:spin2:

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    Every thing I state has been "proven" to my satisfaction through observation.
    Ah, but your satisfaction is purely subjective, science cannot be so. The crazy man recently released from a mental institution in Tenerife who beheaded a woman in a supermarket ailse, he I suspect was entirely sure, to his satisfaction, that the "god" in his head was instructing him to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    Sceintifically a bee cannot fly. But observe the bee and see it flies. If science were true then the bee does not fly and we would be dead a long time ago because we cannot have agriculture without pollenation.:rotz:
    Where is the scientific papers which show bees cannot fly? This paper must be devastating, it must surely be turning the world of physics upside down right now. I await this information with anticipation!! (or is it just "proven" to your satisfaction?)

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    GHOST DOG said:
    First of all people who claim that having a near death experience means that there is a heaven must realize that because they "died and came back to life after an hour" means nothing.
    eugene66 said:
    Adress what I said and we can maybe talk about that. I did not say anything about a heaven and I already said that science will never be able to prove this.
    I didn't say that YOU said there was a heaven...I said that all PEOPLE who claim an NDE must mean that there is a heaven haven't really proved anything....so if you make this claim, there you are. Have you had an NDE?
    Being concious after corporeal death does not prove anything other than being concious after death. It does not imply or assume anything about heaven or hell. But if one is scared of other peoples beliefs or the existence of a heaven or a hell then one would be afraid that life after death might imply a heaven or a hell. Fact is it doesn't
    This statement is also true to me....
    Come with a clear open mind that does not create its own delusions through assumptions and you will probably see a lot more than when you assume what is being said and placing your own veil of delusion over it.
    I only assume what seems clear to me.....as you do. I assumed that you understood what you read in my post above about people who believe NDEs are reason enough for a heaven...."
    The mind is non-local" Science will always lack behind reality because it will always be limited to what it can measure and prove according to its own set criteria of "real" There are things that the mind and science cannot fathom. Does not mean that it's not there
    Sorry...I don't buy this line about a "non-local" mind....please provide citations of viable proof of this postulation please. Also You should know that science investigates reality...so how on earth could it LAG behind it? Science is the cutting edge of human reality. Is there another reality undetectable that I should know about?
    Every thing I state has been "proven" to my satisfaction through observation. Sceintifically a bee cannot fly. But observe the bee and see it flies. If science were true then the bee does not fly and we would be dead a long time ago because we cannot have agriculture without pollenation.
    Good for you! I assume that you have citations proving this also? I would guess that science has long ago investigated the bee's ability to fly and found it viable. I find it most unbelievable that a space shuttle can fly, but it does very well, IMHO.
    One needs an open mind. That means going beyond limited thinking. I like science but there are areas where science does not work. Science is not the only tool we have. Its time we wake to our invisible senses too.
    BINGO! and I also agree that there are areas where science doesn't work....astrology, numerology, palm reading, etc.... by the way....what other tool would you install in place of science if there is another viable means of discovering the unknown portions of reality? If there is such a thing as "invisible senses" I feel that science of some sort will discover them, don't you?
    Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion- in the long run these are the only people who count... Robert Heinlein

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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Ah, but your satisfaction is purely subjective, science cannot be so. The crazy man recently released from a mental institution in Tenerife who beheaded a woman in a supermarket ailse, he I suspect was entirely sure, to his satisfaction, that the "god" in his head was instructing him to do it.


    Where is the scientific papers which show bees cannot fly? This paper must be devastating, it must surely be turning the world of physics upside down right now. I await this information with anticipation!! (or is it just "proven" to your satisfaction?)
    Oh Thistle again?

    Yeah dude ...to my satisfaction.

    Have a nice day. :rryumy:

  15. #15
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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by GHOST DOG View Post
    GHOST DOG said: eugene66 said:I didn't say that YOU said there was a heaven...I said that all PEOPLE who claim an NDE must mean that there is a heaven haven't really proved anything....so if you make this claim, there you are. Have you had an NDE? This statement is also true to me....I only assume what seems clear to me.....as you do. I assumed that you understood what you read in my post above about people who believe NDEs are reason enough for a heaven...." Sorry...I don't buy this line about a "non-local" mind....please provide citations of viable proof of this postulation please. Also You should know that science investigates reality...so how on earth could it LAG behind it? Science is the cutting edge of human reality. Is there another reality undetectable that I should know about? Good for you! I assume that you have citations proving this also? I would guess that science has long ago investigated the bee's ability to fly and found it viable. I find it most unbelievable that a space shuttle can fly, but it does very well, IMHO. BINGO! and I also agree that there are areas where science doesn't work....astrology, numerology, palm reading, etc.... by the way....what other tool would you install in place of science if there is another viable means of discovering the unknown portions of reality? If there is such a thing as "invisible senses" I feel that science of some sort will discover them, don't you?
    There is a lot in this post and I agree with you on some and on others I believe more clarity is called for.

    I just learned that in 2006 it was eventually proved how bumble bees fly. Most of my life we were told that science cannot figure it out. A hercules cargo plane and An impala fighter jet SA ...same story. Technically it was not supposed to fly.
    It is believed that the calculations which purported to show that bumble bees cannot fly are based upon a simplified linear treatment of oscillating aerofoils. The method assumes small amplitude oscillations without flow separation. This ignores the effect of dynamic stall, an airflow separation inducing a large vortex above the wing, which briefly produces several times the lift of the aerofoil in regular flight. More sophisticated aerodynamic analysis shows that the bumblebee can fly because its wings encounter dynamic stall in every oscillation cycle.[32]
    Additionally, John Maynard Smith a noted biologist with a strong background in aeronautics, has pointed out that bumble bees would not be expected to sustain flight, as they would need to generate too much power given their tiny wing area. However, in aerodynamics experiments with other insects he found that viscosity at the scale of small insects meant that even their small wings can move a very large volume of air relative to the size, and this reduces the power required to sustain flight by an order of magnitude.[33]
    Another description of a bee's wing function is that the wings work similarly to helicopter blades, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades".
    Bees beat their wings approximately 200 times a second. Their thorax muscles do not expand and contract on each nerve firing, but rather vibrate like a plucked rubber band.
    So for about forty years of my life, untill it was proven, the flight of the bumblebee was a pipe dream. Yet they flew so then it was simply a mystery.

    I don't know how they resolved the Hercules but the Impala was eventually explained thus: Because of its short wingspan it would be more accurate to say that an impala is a manned missile rather than an airplane.

    Non local mind.
    I will see if I can find an article for you but as I remember the tests they proved that you can see the firing of neurons when a muscle moves but when you ask the subject not to move and to decide what to move or not....in that time there is no brain activity. This proves that the commander or decision maker is not in any physical location.



    Product Description

    In this remarkable scientific exploration of the mind's powers, pioneering physicist Russell Targ and renowned spiritual healer Jane Katra present an extraordinary synthesis of how spiritual healing and non-local mind--the mind's ability to transcend space and time--are integrally linked. Photos & illustrations 6-city author tour. Targeted print ads. Radio publicity . HERE
    Locality and Beyond
    The central question is: What is it that exists independent of the physical brain? Yet as soon as we attempt to formulate this questions we prejudice the answer through our linguistic concepts of object, location in space and so on. Current "consciousness studies" in the hard sciences assume that mind, or consciousness, emerges out of the physical brain and cannot therefore exist independent of it - although a variety of physical signals can be sent between brains. Our experience of consciousness awareness - scanning the environment and having access to our memories - is certainly conditioned by the state of the physical brain. But to suggest that brain is the sole cause of mind does not logically follow.
    Consciousness studies also argue in favour of some sort of quantum mechanical origin for consciousness. I do not find the argument particularly satisfying or logically compelling. In its barest form it proposes that the sort of things done by consciousness (Penrose picks out mathematics) cannot all be reduced to algorithmic processes and therefore mind does not have a mechanical basis. While parts of it may be hard wired it does not totally operate like a computer. Quantum theory, the argument goes, is the other thing that cannot be reduced to algorithmic form. Ergo quantum theory must have something to do with consciousness. From there researchers rush on to theories of quantum tunneling, collapsing wave functions, non-local connections and coherent quantum structures. But a variety of other explanations are possible:
    • That mind was present in the universe ab inito. For example, in the form of a proto mind associated with even the elementary particles.
    • That mind is of a totally different order and makes its liaison with matter via the medium of the brain (The dualism of Popper and Eccles).
    • That both mind and matter (at the quantum level) arise out of some deeper level.
    • Or, to follow Bohm, that mind and matter form an unanalyzable whole which must be addressed through some totally different order of explanation - the Implicate Order. In this case the Cartesian cut is an illusion present only at the Explicate Order of perception and explanation.
    Phenomena
    We are now well on the road to invoking theoretical explanations and at this point it is important to go back to experience and psychic phenomena. This is a long read but you c an see all of it here
    I can find many more for you but in the end its boils down to the words I heard David Blaine say.

    "To those who don't know how it is done no explanation will do. To those who do, no explanation is needed."

    We used to call it 'Wiring' a brain ir wired for it or it isn't An open mind can re wire onto new data but a closed one will forever be blind to the new data. It will literally not "see" it either in real life or in imagination (where everything begins.)

    Thanks for that explanation of heaven and other people.. My bad. I assumed it was meant for me because whats the use of speaking to people that are not here. LOL

    I never had an NDE but I had other experiences that confirmed my belief in things we cannot prove...yet maybe? But I think we are reaching the limitations of rational mind here.

    To go any further we will have to stop using words, mind and rational explanation.

  16. #16
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    Re: The best documented experience of 'God'

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    Oh Thistle again?

    Yeah dude ...to my satisfaction.

    Have a nice day. :rryumy:
    Was there an answer to my question there? I dont think so. I'm sure you just missed it:

    Where are the scientific papers which show bees cannot fly?

    You said "Sceintifically a bee cannot fly".

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