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  1. #1
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    "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Well I had just finished reading the book

    "Manning up"- "How the Rise of Women has turned men into Boys" It is a very fascinating Read....




    It is generally geared towards the younger population of women and men however I can also see how it has changed men who are older as well and why they are upset that us women are gaining more rights and equality.

    After having discussions with BryWilson, IAMWil, Old Timer and Knight-Mare it is hard for me to understand where they are comming from because they are so use to women obeying their every wishes.

    Old Timer had made a comment to I believe it was either Tulip or LisAn23 that if they were together one of them would have been gone "a long time ago" I dont remember the exact verbage but it was something to that effect(not mention the whole ordeal with the young woman in the cat suit).....but that comment really stuck with me. It made me realize how strong women are becoming in todays society. Women will no longer put up with mens crap. Knight-Mare had made similiar comments that I cant remember the exact wording but really made me say "WOW These older men really are not use to strong independent and level headed women.


    Further I had the opportunity to have conversations with two other men IAMWil, and BryWilson2.

    Generally all I can say about IAmWil is that I think he at least tries to understand where us women are comming from but deep down he's conflicted He still doesnt fully understand why us women can do anything a man can do (and in many cases even better ) he thinks our bodies are different. (Which is very true) Our Bodies are different generally speaking man has more upper body muscles than women) but if push comes to shove us women can do anything a man can do if we wanted more upper body muscles we could work out more. Needless to say IamWil stated he still would not want a women to save him from a tree on a ladder from a fire truck.

    Many men in the older generations when confronted will run away from their problems. This i believe is different from the younger generation today who is more apt and willing to listen and compromise. BryWilson2 is a perfect example of this. Tulip and I both had the opportunity to have a discussion with BryWilson2 on the "Why do so many men oppose feminism?" thread. BryWilson2 had made many comments that had made me realize how men are. He had made many comments about how he would not put up with his Girlfriends and compromise with them. Further he had gone on a sexist slur on Sarah Palin, talking about her nipples, breasts and how she was a skank (Even IAMWil had stated that he was starting to side with Tulip and I ). BryWilson2 also could not understand how calling Sarah Palin a Skank is a statement of his views on all women. No women deserves to be called those names. Finally BryWilson2 ended up leaving the thread and running away (this is ttypical of the older male generation) instead of sitting down like a man and discussing the issue at hand he ran away from his problem rather than trying to resolve it.

    I could be wrong but I think the younger generation is going to treat and accept women much better than the older generation has.

    The unfortunate thing is that while the Younger generation of men are morre respectful of women. Women are maturing at a much faster rate than men are in effect turning the young men into boys (The older men are already boys if they view women the way BryWilson2, Old Timer, Knight Mare and IAMWil do).

    It will be interesting to see what happens once the older generation of men die out and the younger generation of "boys" turn into men themselves.

    Stay tuned.....in 10-15 years we will have the opportunity to reflect on this thread
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  2. #2
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    After having discussions with BryWilson, IAMWil, Old Timer and Knight-Mare it is hard for me to understand where they are comming from because they are so use to women obeying their every wishes.

    Speaking for myself, what a load of crap. You may think you know me or understand me, but you don't. So don't pretend that you know.

    You're the best at all you do - and all you do is make people hate you.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  3. #3
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza. View Post
    Strong willed, forceful, confident and independent women are a complete turn-on!

    The "men" were always "boys".

    A real "man" respects and interacts with anyone who can demonstrate they are their mental and physical equivalent.

    A "boy" gets pissed off by feeling inferior to (or being eclipsed by) a woman.


    .


    Amen!!!!!!


    Brywilson2 and Knight-Mare could learn a lot from your words of wisdom.
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  4. #4
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermit The Frog View Post
    Amen!!!!!!


    Brywilson2 and Knight-Mare could learn a lot from your words of wisdom.
    You want to know something Kermit? People can't say that you have absolutely nothing! After all, you have inferiority!
    Last edited by Knight-mare; 04-20-2011 at 01:09 PM.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  5. #5
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    You want to know something Kermit? People can't say that you have absolutely nothing! After all, you have inferiority!

    So its asked again......

    Why do men treat women so poorly in your generation.............

    It's complex

    Some women like "bad boys" and are turned on by their misbehaviour. However, there is another reason.

    Why do men treat women so poorly? One of my main answers is "because they can." Many know that their woman feels dependant upon them, and that's the first place they go to lash out. The societal expectation is that women will just take it, because "that's how men are," or "boys will be boys." There's also a pervading hierarchy in today's society that still, somehow, places women in a kind of permanent second class status. It's been that way ever since the
    Adam and Eve myth was used to justify the new social order.


    Also, some men were themselves abused, usually as children, and they didn't ever learn the non-abusive way to live and to treat women in a better way. That's just how they grew up seeing women treated, and see it as normal. Or, they had no control of their lives for so long that now, they take it out on women, who are "lower on the totem pole" and seen as the one thing that maybe he CAN control. Women are often easy to manipulate emotionally, and that kind of abuse isn't as easy to suss out - even for the woman - as other more violent, blatant forms of abuse. Sometimes, it takes a while to know it's there, like the STORY ABOUT THE FROG IN THE HOT WATER By the time the woman (or sometims even an abused man; it happens) realizes what's going on, it's fairly entrenched.

    Women are very often raised to have low self esteem, and think this is the only guy they can get - the only one who would ever "want" them. However, from the inside of an abusive relationship, things look very different than the ydo to an outside observer. The woman will make excuses as to why it isn't really abuse. "He's only like that when he's drunk," or "It's my fault, I shouldn't have burnt dinner," or "He's having a hard time at work."

    Also, traditionally, women are a little more economically dependant upon men than men are on women. Perhaps she feels that she can't make a go of it on her own, either because she has no place to go, or no job skills beyond "housewife," or that he's cowed her into having such bad self esteem that she thinks she's not good enough for any other situation. Abused women have a notable lack of confidence that hold them back from many things, including getting the h*ll out!

    With all of this stated.... women are equalizing their status in america. The younger generation of women are more independent and willing to not take the abuse that the baby boomer generation have to endure daily. Men in the younger generation also tend to respect women more than their older male generation counterparts. You see it all the time on this forum.... Old Timer, Knight-Mare, Bry, IamWil they all have this perceived notion that they can mentally and/or physically take advantage of a women. Even Old Timer once told LisaAn23 that if he were married to her that "she would be gone a long time ago" Lisa is to strong of a woman for Old Timer. Old Timer needs someone who is willing to obey his every command and LisaAn23 won't put up with that nonesensical crap!
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5MkX...eature=related

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  6. #6
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermit The Frog View Post
    So its asked again......

    Why do men treat women so poorly in your generation.............

    It's complex

    Some women like "bad boys" and are turned on by their misbehaviour. However, there is another reason.

    Why do men treat women so poorly? One of my main answers is "because they can." Many know that their woman feels dependant upon them, and that's the first place they go to lash out. The societal expectation is that women will just take it, because "that's how men are," or "boys will be boys." There's also a pervading hierarchy in today's society that still, somehow, places women in a kind of permanent second class status. It's been that way ever since the
    Adam and Eve myth was used to justify the new social order.


    Also, some men were themselves abused, usually as children, and they didn't ever learn the non-abusive way to live and to treat women in a better way. That's just how they grew up seeing women treated, and see it as normal. Or, they had no control of their lives for so long that now, they take it out on women, who are "lower on the totem pole" and seen as the one thing that maybe he CAN control. Women are often easy to manipulate emotionally, and that kind of abuse isn't as easy to suss out - even for the woman - as other more violent, blatant forms of abuse. Sometimes, it takes a while to know it's there, like the STORY ABOUT THE FROG IN THE HOT WATER By the time the woman (or sometims even an abused man; it happens) realizes what's going on, it's fairly entrenched.

    Women are very often raised to have low self esteem, and think this is the only guy they can get - the only one who would ever "want" them. However, from the inside of an abusive relationship, things look very different than the ydo to an outside observer. The woman will make excuses as to why it isn't really abuse. "He's only like that when he's drunk," or "It's my fault, I shouldn't have burnt dinner," or "He's having a hard time at work."

    Also, traditionally, women are a little more economically dependant upon men than men are on women. Perhaps she feels that she can't make a go of it on her own, either because she has no place to go, or no job skills beyond "housewife," or that he's cowed her into having such bad self esteem that she thinks she's not good enough for any other situation. Abused women have a notable lack of confidence that hold them back from many things, including getting the h*ll out!

    With all of this stated.... women are equalizing their status in america. The younger generation of women are more independent and willing to not take the abuse that the baby boomer generation have to endure daily. Men in the younger generation also tend to respect women more than their older male generation counterparts. You see it all the time on this forum.... Old Timer, Knight-Mare, Bry, IamWil they all have this perceived notion that they can mentally and/or physically take advantage of a women. Even Old Timer once told LisaAn23 that if he were married to her that "she would be gone a long time ago" Lisa is to strong of a woman for Old Timer. Old Timer needs someone who is willing to obey his every command and LisaAn23 won't put up with that nonesensical crap!
    Once again, Kermit pretends like she knows WTF she is talking about and she doesn't.

    If ignorance is bliss, you (Kermit) must be the happiest person alive.
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  7. #7
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    Once again, Kermit pretends like she knows WTF she is talking about and she doesn't.

    If ignorance is bliss, you (Kermit) must be the happiest person alive.

    People are reading the book!!!!

    Here is what one reader wrote:


    Kay Hymowitz has written a great book - and no reviewer on here has really captured the thrust of it yet. (The book is now out on Amazon and I read it yesterday.) Hymowitz' argument could be summarized thusly:

    1) Beginning in the 1960s, women gained the freedom to have unlimited sex and be financially independent - without getting married -- for the first time ever. Vast swathes of young women have been choosing to do just that.

    2) Today, women in their 20s are far more "together" than men the same age: They are better looking, smoother, probably better educated and probably make more money.

    3) As such, women in their 20s have sharply-reduced interest in getting married - and even less interest in marrying fellow 20-somethings. It's not that no woman in her 20s marry any guy in his 20s. Many do. But the percentages are way down.

    4) Instead of getting married, attractive young women go out and play the field. But they don't play the whole field -- and that's the key. They generally focus on the most appealing guys: the "alpha" males. Vivacious 20-something women have little interest in drudges, unattractive guys, late bloomers, short guys, introverted guys, etc etc. As a result, roughly half of males can't get a decent date during their 20s. Hymowitz has read the work of the amateur evolutionary psychologists in the "seduction community" and appears to agree with roughly 80% of their findings: Young attractive women overwhelmingly seek alpha males. As a consequence, she writes, "beta" males have been the primary losers in the sexual revolution.

    5) Beta males are the key to the whole story. A beta male is frequently a male who is trying to be a man by doing the right thing: He works hard to learn the difficult trades demanded in the modern economy; he treats women with respect and deference, he is generally sober, he spends a lot of time trying to understand prevailing political and philosophical currents. As a result, he is very unlikely to be the seductive Prince Charming that today's young women have been brought up to expect as their birthright. He just doesn't have the time - and it probably hasn't occurred to him that that's what women want. So, he loses the girl to the bad boys, the "natural alphas" and the successful guys in their 30s.

    6) Women in their 30s who are still unmarried (roughly half nowadays) often begin to get the urge to marry and settle down. But the pickings are slimmer. The women are somewhat less attractive, they have fewer years of fertility remaining and the remaining single men their own age are less interested. Many men in their 30s and 40s have become bitter or dropped out of the dating scene due to years of rejection. Others have been wiped out in a divorce.

    7) Hymowitz has a good discussion of the negative impact of no-fault divorce laws on the marriage landscape. Roughly 70% of divorces are initiated by women - yet women get the kids almost every time. They also get child support. Once they have the kids and the money, it's a fairly easy matter to get a restraining order on a man who wants to see his kids. Obviously there are many deadbeat dads out there. But there are also many successful men who have been raked over the coals -- and it's the successful men that women are interested in.

    8) Hymowitz really offers no solution to the man-child issue, which is fair because I don't think there are any practical solutions. One thing that would solve the problem would be if women, during their years of peak attractiveness and fertility (say. between the ages of 21 and 29) suddenly chose, en masse, to forego years of playing the field and instead settled down with the hard-working, unexciting guys their own age whom they are now ignoring. These guys would get their dream girls - and they would work hard to support them and raise a family. The man-child phenomenon would be over because players and pick-up artists would find no more willing girls out seeking alpha males for a quick and exciting fling. Of course, the chances of this happening are not high.
    Knight-Mare your a man trapped in boys body. You have to get over yourself we are no longer in the 1960's, 70's, 80's, or even 90's we are in 2011.

    Women are gaining their freedom and rights back something your generation has failed to do. We will no longer put up with men like you and your crap!
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  8. #8
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermit The Frog View Post
    People are reading the book!!!!

    Here is what one reader wrote:




    Knight-Mare your a man trapped in boys body. You have to get over yourself we are no longer in the 1960's, 70's, 80's, or even 90's we are in 2011.

    Women are gaining their freedom and rights back something your generation has failed to do. We will no longer put up with men like you and your crap!
    LOL. Just because you have read a book, you actually believe that you have all the answers to understanding some of the people on this site. You have got a lot to learn little girl.

    You don't know me, so stop pretending that you do.

    I'm glad to see that you realize that it is 2011.

    In the dictionary under the word, "stupid", it says, "see Kermit."
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  9. #9
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    ]Here is another Review from Publishers Weekly

    What do Adam Sandler movies, Maxim magazine, and South Park have in common? According to journalist Hymowitz's unpersuasive polemic, they are compelling evidence that "crudity is at the heart of the child-man persona," an increasingly ubiquitous personality type among men age 20–40 who don't grow up because they don't have to. Weaving together the socioeconomic and cultural paradigm shifts of the last half-century, Hymowitz identifies the appearance of "a new stage of life" in developed societies—pre-adulthood—where the traditional life-script: grow up, marry, have children, and die, is now: "What do I want to do with my life?" But in a world where social demands no longer equate manhood with maturity, frat dudes, nerds, geeks, and emo-boys can remain in suspended postadolescence, while women, whose biological clocks are ticking, are forced to choose between single parenthood and casting their lot with a "child-man." It's a provocative argument that Hymowitz advances with considerable spirit, but she conflates character with maturity, and her blaming feminism for the infantilization of men wrests more power and control away from men, suggesting that they can't develop a sense of responsibility without a woman's help.
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  10. #10
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    LOL. Just because you have read a book, you actually believe that you have all the answers to understanding some of the people on this site. You have got a lot to learn little girl.

    You don't know me, so stop pretending that you do.

    I'm glad to see that you realize that it is 2011.

    In the dictionary under the word, "stupid", it says, "see Kermit."
    B.Y. observing your behaviours I am under the assumption that you may not fit with the age category of 20-40.

    However, there are certain extreme circumstances that certain "men" I.E. boys above that age have tendencies to still be a "child-man".

    I believe you follow under that umbrella.... Maybe you were the one that paved the way for the younger generation of child-men to follow.
    Last edited by Kermit The Frog; 07-28-2011 at 03:40 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermit The Frog View Post
    B.Y. observing your behaviours I am under the assumption that you may not fit with the age category of 20-40.

    However, there are certain extreme circumstances that certain "men" I.E. boys above that age have tendencies to still be a "child-man".

    I believe you follow under that umbrella.... Maybe you were the one that paved the way for the younger generation of child-men to follow.
    Still trying to figure me out I see. You may think that you know me, but you really don't.

    Let me see if I can figure you out. You are probaly an insecure, over-weight woman who hides behind the persona of a muppet. Am I right so far?
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

  12. #12
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight-mare View Post
    Still trying to figure me out I see. You may think that you know me, but you really don't.

    Let me see if I can figure you out. You are probaly an insecure, over-weight woman who hides behind the persona of a muppet. Am I right so far?

    I think I have you pretty well pegged KM :liefde:
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  13. #13
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    Re: "Manning Up"-Kay Hymowitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Kermit The Frog View Post
    I think I have you pretty well pegged KM :liefde:
    No you don't KTF!!
    "The mind bends and twists in order to deal with the horrors of life...
    ...sometimes the mind bends so much it snaps in two".

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