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  1. #1

    Watkins Summit Group

    I just came across this site.

    http://www.tsginfo.com/wat4/index.php?rc=ey2236&rcext=

    It states " How's $258,134 per year sound?"

    Watkins is a legitimate company but the summit group is destroying its reputation! :judges:

  2. #2
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas_Adams View Post
    It states " How's $258,134 per year sound?"

    Watkins is a legitimate company but the summit group is destroying its reputation! :judges:
    Douglas,

    The website you visited contained income claims, income averages and official disclaimers that were all approved by Watkins in writing. They are also used in Watkins own literature as well. The website also said that the average Watkins associate makes less than $50 per month.

    Yes, Watkins is a legitimate company, but its reputation is historically based on a peddler going door-to-door or someone at a local flea market. Certainly those methods are fine for those who want to do this, but we think it is also important for people who want to build a serious, six figure business to know that it can be done with Watkins.

    The $258,000 figure is the actual, verified average incomes of those Watkins associates who have reached the Gold Executive level. Yes, there are only a few, but why wouldn't you want people to know what was possible with hard work and dedication? For the average person who knows Watkins as a door-to-door business, do you think they would perceive that such incomes are possible?

    At the same time, you let them know what the average associate earns, and the Summit Group clearly states this as well.

    People do this business many different ways and have many different goals. We embrace all of the folks who love the heritage and warm fuzzies of this great company, but we also embrace those who are thinking outside the box to grow the company and its brand to reach new markets.

    Have a great day!
    Steve Bretzke
    Watkins Gold Executive
    Summit Group Founder

  3. #3
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBretzke View Post
    Douglas,

    The website you visited contained income claims, income averages and official disclaimers that were all approved by Watkins in writing. They are also used in Watkins own literature as well. The website also said that the average Watkins associate makes less than $50 per month.

    Yes, Watkins is a legitimate company, but its reputation is historically based on a peddler going door-to-door or someone at a local flea market. Certainly those methods are fine for those who want to do this, but we think it is also important for people who want to build a serious, six figure business to know that it can be done with Watkins.

    The $258,000 figure is the actual, verified average incomes of those Watkins associates who have reached the Gold Executive level. Yes, there are only a few, but why wouldn't you want people to know what was possible with hard work and dedication? For the average person who knows Watkins as a door-to-door business, do you think they would perceive that such incomes are possible?

    At the same time, you let them know what the average associate earns, and the Summit Group clearly states this as well.

    People do this business many different ways and have many different goals. We embrace all of the folks who love the heritage and warm fuzzies of this great company, but we also embrace those who are thinking outside the box to grow the company and its brand to reach new markets.

    Have a great day!
    Steve Bretzke
    Watkins Gold Executive
    Summit Group Founder

    Very well put Steve, and would apply to all decent MLM companies.
    Last edited by ChrisDoyle; 02-09-2011 at 09:41 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    From Watkins InternetPolicy

    E-Associates cannot make earnings and income claims. All Associates shall safeguard and promote the good reputation of Watkins and its products. The marketing and promotion of Watkins, the Watkins opportunity, the International Compensation Plan, and Watkins products shall be consistent with the public interest, and must avoid all discourteous,deceptive, misleading, unethical or immoral conduct or practices.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2010
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    8

    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Douglas,

    No income claims were made. Factual income amounts were given that came straight from Watkins.

    There is a difference between making a claim and stating a fact.

    See page 20 of Watkins System For Success plan to see where the numbers came from. We use the exact same disclaimer that is listed under that chart.

    http://www.watkinsonline.com/pdf/pro...ide_1_2011.pdf

    Steve
    Last edited by SteveBretzke; 02-11-2011 at 01:48 PM.

  6. #6
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    789

    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    I see this is an old thread, but hope someone will reply anyways. Some quick questions:

    1) When did Watkins start using the MLM business model?
    2) Is the model ethical, non-deceptive and just? In case yes, how?
    3) How did you sell the products before starting with the MLM-model?
    4) Is it possible for me to buy your products in a local shop/on the internet without being an associate?
    5) Do your products have competitive pricing?
    Last edited by Zapticon; 11-12-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Slightly changed a question
    If itīs too good to be true, it probably is.

  7. #7
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Let me answer these for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    I see this is an old thread, but hope someone will reply anyways. Some quick questions:

    1) When did Watkins start using the MLM business model?

    Good question. Thought I knew the answer, but didn't. Hmm....
    .....Ok, I did the legwork. Called their office. They stated that they have always done business as a MLM. Since 1868, if a person wanted to be a Watkins distributor, they had to find a sponsor(upline) and sign up through them in order to sell the Watkins products.

    2) Is the model ethical, non-deceptive and just? In case yes, how?

    You've already seen plenty of argument for and against. Nothing new is going to present itself....but good luck!

    3) How did you sell the products before starting with the MLM-model?

    It has always done business using the MLM model. Door to door and in stores (stores about 10 years ago, from what lady told me - places like walmart and wallgreens). Tradeshows and fairs. Mobile store fronts. Catalogs. Online, etc.


    4) Is it possible for me to buy your products in a local shop/on the internet without being an associate?

    Yes

    5) Do your products have competitive pricing?

    Yes. Google "Watkins price comparison."
    Last edited by bibleman; 11-13-2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Updated with answer to #1

  8. #8
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    789

    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Let me answer these for you.

    1) When did Watkins start using the MLM business model?

    Good question. Thought I knew the answer, but didn't. Hmm....
    .....Ok, I did the legwork. Called their office. They stated that they have always done business as a MLM. Since 1868, if a person wanted to be a Watkins distributor, they had to find a sponsor(upline) and sign up through them in order to sell the Watkins products.
    Interesting stuff. So they were trained by their own distributors and then got a license selling from door to door. Seems fair enough, as long as the focus is selling products.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    3) How did you sell the products before starting with the MLM-model?

    It has always done business using the MLM model. Door to door and in stores (stores about 10 years ago, from what lady told me - places like walmart and wallgreens). Tradeshows and fairs. Mobile store fronts. Catalogs. Online, etc.
    So they have their products both in stores and selling door to door. Seems like it is more common to focus on one or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    4) Is it possible for me to buy your products in a local shop/on the internet without being an associate?

    Yes
    Good, do you have a link by the way?
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    5) Do your products have competitive pricing?

    Yes. Google "Watkins price comparison."
    Then why use direct selling? If they are competitive, they could easily sell them through stores.
    If itīs too good to be true, it probably is.

  9. #9
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    So they have their products both in stores and selling door to door. Seems like it is more common to focus on one or the other.
    Corporate does it (as do many MLMs) on a limited basis to maintain or create brand awareness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    Good, do you have a link by the way?

    Click HERE


    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    Then why use direct selling? If they are competitive, they could easily sell them through stores.

    They could....but they don't. Maybe tradition?

  10. #10
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Corporate does it (as do many MLMs) on a limited basis to maintain or create brand awareness.





    Click HERE

    They could....but they don't. Maybe tradition?
    It depends on the product line. Many products are perfect for word of mouth advertising where someone can describe what they're like. Those same products, in a shop, would be sitting on a shelf with many other products of the same type of line. How are people going to know how good they are? They could use advertising, but a)many people dont believe advertising and b) the price would probably have to go up to pay for it.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

  11. #11
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDoyle View Post
    It depends on the product line. Many products are perfect for word of mouth advertising where someone can describe what they're like. Those same products, in a shop, would be sitting on a shelf with many other products of the same type of line. How are people going to know how good they are? They could use advertising, but a)many people dont believe advertising and b) the price would probably have to go up to pay for it.


    I think in Watkins particular case, they sell smaller bottles or far less variety....sort of a teaser to the public to encourage them to search out an actual local dealer.

  12. #12
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    I sent them an email asking this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Email from me to Watkins
    Hi!

    I come from Norway, and recently learned about your company. I saw the trailer for the movie about your distributor with CP which was really moving. I have some questions I could not find answers to:

    1) When did you start using the MLM-model?
    2) Do you sell products through franchises? If not, was that the primary selling point prior to MLM? 3) Do you cowork with any company training your distributors?
    4) How many distributors do you currently have and in how many levels? Hope to hear from you.

    Regards from ******
    This was their response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Answer from Watkins
    Good Afternoon *****
    Thank you for contacting Watkins Incorporated regarding becoming an Associate. We currently have 2 requirements if interested in setting up an Associate membership with Watkins.
    1) The first step is that you would need to have a sponsor. A sponsor would be someone who is current in actively selling Watkins products.
    2) The second step would be to purchase a membership package for $39.95 +tax.
    The membership package contains a 1 year membership with Watkins where you would be receiving a 25% discount on all of your orders; and you would also have the opportunity to earn additional compensation in the form of a commission check each month.
    Most Associates use Watkins as a home-based business. However, some people join to sell to friends and family members.
    The internet is also a great way to market yourself as an Associate. We currently have an e-associate program which would give you your own Watkins Online website to personalize. Any orders placed on this site would entitle you to the credit. This program has a start-up fee of $64.95 and a monthly maintenance fee of $19.95 for each month after the initial set-up.
    If you would like me to send you a business information packet with more details, please provide me with your complete mailing address and phone number.
    Sincerely.
    They did not answer any of my questions.
    If itīs too good to be true, it probably is.

  13. #13
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    I sent them an email asking this:

    This was their response:

    They did not answer any of my questions.
    Probably has more to do with your "off" questions than anything...

    1st off, you did not specify if you were still in Norway....I think they only serve the US and Canada...
    They've always used the MLM model for distributors, as I've already stated based off my call to them, they are not a franchise org, again there was no "before MLM," probably confused them when you asked about co-working with someone for training...

    I've said this before. MLM is a pay plan. The business is sales. Watkins, being an MLM, has their admin offices, but that is to primarily handle incoming product orders.

  14. #14
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    I sent them an email asking this:



    This was their response:



    They did not answer any of my questions.
    Man you anti-MLMr's sure are lazy and unimaginative...

    Once again, Google's yer friend..

    Between these two sites (and some common sense!) you can find almost all of your answers...

    Click Here!

    Click Here too!

    Lazy wannabe 'scambusters'...:rotz:
    As long as it is acceptable for a person to beLIEve that he knows how god wants everyone on Earth to live, we will continue to murder one another on account of our myths. ~ Sam Harris, 'The End Of Faith'
    ~~~~~
    Christianity demands the crucifixion of the intellect.
    ~ Susan Kierkegaard

  15. #15
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    Probably has more to do with your "off" questions than anything...
    Probably. "Maybe I got a little to close" as the circus director said in The Butterfly Circus (4:15). Amazing short film, recommend watching it. 20 minutes, all on YouTube.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    1st off, you did not specify if you were still in Norway....I think they only serve the US and Canada...
    They've always used the MLM model for distributors, as I've already stated based off my call to them, they are not a franchise org, again there was no "before MLM," probably confused them when you asked about co-working with someone for training...
    Here, I disagree. I think they were using a traditional affiliate marketing-model before, or SLM if you want to call it that. Then they developed into a combination of franchise-selling and MLM. Not surprising as practically the whole direct selling industry seems to be doing that now.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleman View Post
    I've said this before. MLM is a pay plan. The business is sales. Watkins, being an MLM, has their admin offices, but that is to primarily handle incoming product orders.
    Yes, I know. And if they have good products (which I think they do, concidering the age of the company), and have a focus on actually selling the products to non-participant end customers, then good! Products are being brought to people willingly buying because they want the product, and maybe a little bit because they were pressured by a sales man, but no harm in that as it is ultimately the choice of the customer.

    By the way, I have recently responded to Watkins apologizing for asking intruding and somewhat inappropriate questions. I know far too little of the company to be asking those kind of questions. Just to clearify that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohein56 View Post
    Man you anti-MLMr's sure are lazy and unimaginative...

    Once again, Google's yer friend..

    Between these two sites (and some common sense!) you can find almost all of your answers...

    Click Here!

    Click Here too!

    Lazy wannabe 'scambusters'...:rotz:
    I've seen both of the links you refer to, and I now know the company a bit more. Also, I recommend watching the movie Door to Door telling the story of Bill Porter, the sales man from another planet, having CP and all. In his first year as a sales man for Watkins, he was the top selling distributor with approx. 42.000$ worth of products sold! Patience and persistense was his "motto", and indeed he had that.

    A moving story about a real person. It got 7,8 on IMDB. I gave it 9/10.
    If itīs too good to be true, it probably is.

  16. #16
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    Re: Watkins Summit Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapticon View Post
    Probably. "Maybe I got a little to close" as the circus director said in The Butterfly Circus (4:15). Amazing short film, recommend watching it. 20 minutes, all on YouTube.



    Here, I disagree. I think they were using a traditional affiliate marketing-model before, or SLM if you want to call it that. Then they developed into a combination of franchise-selling and MLM. Not surprising as practically the whole direct selling industry seems to be doing that now.



    Yes, I know. And if they have good products (which I think they do, concidering the age of the company), and have a focus on actually selling the products to non-participant end customers, then good! Products are being brought to people willingly buying because they want the product, and maybe a little bit because they were pressured by a sales man, but no harm in that as it is ultimately the choice of the customer.

    By the way, I have recently responded to Watkins apologizing for asking intruding and somewhat inappropriate questions. I know far too little of the company to be asking those kind of questions. Just to clearify that.



    I've seen both of the links you refer to, and I now know the company a bit more. Also, I recommend watching the movie Door to Door telling the story of Bill Porter, the sales man from another planet, having CP and all. In his first year as a sales man for Watkins, he was the top selling distributor with approx. 42.000$ worth of products sold! Patience and persistense was his "motto", and indeed he had that.

    A moving story about a real person. It got 7,8 on IMDB. I gave it 9/10.
    After reading his story you should now know that done properly, MLM is a very ethical business and just because you're a top distributor, as Bill Porter is, doesn't make you someone who has ripped people off.
    "People are not interested in your product or your business; they are interested in solving their own problems." -- James Dillehay, Entrepreneur and Author

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