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  1. #1

    Experts.........

    I would be the first to admit that I am no expert and that I know next to nothing about Global Warming. But one thing that amazes me is that there are so many that claim to be experts and yet not one of them have ever been through a period of Global Warming on this planet before and have absoultly no first hand knowledge of Global Warming.

    What they seem to be doing is just posting articles from other so called experts on the subject who also have no first hand knowledge themselves. I realize that science has learned a lot and has a lot more to learn. Maybe if more detailed records are recorded and kept and this happens again, those in the future just may be able to actually learn something and be able to also pass their information along.

    Unless there are actual records from the last actual Global Warming, which I doubt, folks are just trying to make themselves out to be experts for a little bit of fame and glory which they in all reality do not deserve.

  2. #2
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    Re: Experts.........

    I just want to clarify one quick thing. You may not need the clarification but others do.

    No one on this site has claimed to be an expert. They have referred people to experts. (I don't think OT needed that clarification but there are others who do)


    As to the records. There are very detailed records. They are just not in digital form. There are tree, ice cores, geologic, and historical. These have provided fairly detailed records of the atmosphere and temperature for a very long time. Of course they are all not perfect but if you have 5,000 pieces of information it is possible to sort out the anomalies fairly easily.

    Science has learned alot and is constantly updated. There is always somone looking over your shoulder to find a way to improve or disprove what you have already done. The theory of AWG is not based on one person. Not 2 people. Not 100 people.

    It is based on over 40 years of research conducted by every country on earth. The first thing every country did. Including George Bush. Was to send out there experts to repeat the analysis and try to prove it wrong. (economically they want it to be wrong). Even under Bush it was found to be true.

    This is not some fad for people looking for a little bit of fame. The only fame that any scientists has gotten from AWG is when someone attacks him and calls them a liar. Before the so Called Climate gate you probaly had never heard of mike McMann. Now he's supposidly a leader.

    There are people who look for fame in this however. You have the celebrities and the wanna be celebrities (lord monckton)(wakefield of the anti-vaxers).


    Sadly AWG is not based on just a couple people and countries around the world do not base there economic policies without confirming things for themselves.

  3. #3

    Re: Experts.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Spector567 View Post
    I just want to clarify one quick thing. You may not need the clarification but others do.

    No one on this site has claimed to be an expert. They have referred people to experts. (I don't think OT needed that clarification but there are others who do)


    As to the records. There are very detailed records. They are just not in digital form. There are tree, ice cores, geologic, and historical. These have provided fairly detailed records of the atmosphere and temperature for a very long time. Of course they are all not perfect but if you have 5,000 pieces of information it is possible to sort out the anomalies fairly easily.

    Science has learned alot and is constantly updated. There is always somone looking over your shoulder to find a way to improve or disprove what you have already done. The theory of AWG is not based on one person. Not 2 people. Not 100 people.

    It is based on over 40 years of research conducted by every country on earth. The first thing every country did. Including George Bush. Was to send out there experts to repeat the analysis and try to prove it wrong. (economically they want it to be wrong). Even under Bush it was found to be true.

    This is not some fad for people looking for a little bit of fame. The only fame that any scientists has gotten from AWG is when someone attacks him and calls them a liar. Before the so Called Climate gate you probaly had never heard of mike McMann. Now he's supposidly a leader.

    There are people who look for fame in this however. You have the celebrities and the wanna be celebrities (lord monckton)(wakefield of the anti-vaxers).


    Sadly AWG is not based on just a couple people and countries around the world do not base there economic policies without confirming things for themselves.
    On what you have just posted, I totally agree. I think I wasn't clear enough Spector. I was referring to those people that just seem to pop up out of nowhere claiming all sorts of things and yet they actually know nothing except how to copy past an article and try to take some credit for that. It is not just those here on this forum, they are everywhere all over the net as well as other places.

    The real scientists of the world have done an amazing job of piecing together each little piece of the puzzle. Of that there is no doubt. Now there are more better educated and better equiped scientists than ever before. As it may or may not appear to actually be happening they can draw on what knowledge they have learned and actually see what is really happening and why. And then possibly be able to draw better conclusions.

  4. #4
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    Re: Experts.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Timer View Post
    On what you have just posted, I totally agree. I think I wasn't clear enough Spector. I was referring to those people that just seem to pop up out of nowhere claiming all sorts of things and yet they actually know nothing except how to copy past an article and try to take some credit for that. It is not just those here on this forum, they are everywhere all over the net as well as other places.

    The real scientists of the world have done an amazing job of piecing together each little piece of the puzzle. Of that there is no doubt. Now there are more better educated and better equiped scientists than ever before. As it may or may not appear to actually be happening they can draw on what knowledge they have learned and actually see what is really happening and why. And then possibly be able to draw better conclusions.
    Yes, you are quite right. The people to decide on scientific issues are the scientists. The only thing I would say is this - someone posting an article or video which explains the current scientific view is quite different from someone who searches out the minority politically or ideologically motivated argument to the contrary.

    The layman cant argue against the consensus, without the expertise. If he does, its generally because of a presupposition based on politics etc.

    I should also add that in the case of global warming, as opposed to something like ev0lution, the consensus is less secure. But it does exist, for now.

    But a good post OT, I do agree with you.

  5. #5
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    Apr 2009
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    Re: Experts.........

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle View Post
    Yes, you are quite right. The people to decide on scientific issues are the scientists. The only thing I would say is this - someone posting an article or video which explains the current scientific view is quite different from someone who searches out the minority politically or ideologically motivated argument to the contrary.

    The layman cant argue against the consensus, without the expertise. If he does, its generally because of a presupposition based on politics etc.

    I should also add that in the case of global warming, as opposed to something like ev0lution, the consensus is less secure. But it does exist, for now.

    But a good post OT, I do agree with you.
    I agree OT. I misunderstood your origenal post.

    Why didn't you post this in the political section? I personally think there are alot of people there that would benifit more from the discussion.

  6. #6

    Re: Experts.........

    I try to stay out of that area for a lot of good reasons. Please post it if you wish.

    Here is some weather info my father in law just sent to me.


    Top 10 cities with least weather varietybased on temperature variation,
    precipitation, wind, severe weather

    1. San Francisco, California

    2. San Diego, California

    3. Los Angeles, California

    4. Santa Barbara, California

    5. Eureka, California

    6. Long Beach, California

    7. Honolulu, Hawaii

    8. Santa Maria, California

    9. San Luis Obispo, California

    10. Kahului, Hawaii


    Top 10 hail prone cities based on frequency and severity of hail

    1. Tulsa, Oklahoma

    2. Amarillo, Texas

    3. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

    4. Wichita, Kansas

    5. Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas

    6. Arlington, Texas

    7. Denver, Colorado

    8. Colorado Springs, Colorado

    9. Shreveport, Louisiana

    10. Kansas City, Missouri/Kansas


    Top 10 Tropical Storm/Hurricane prone cities - Average number of years with no
    storm. Totals based on data from 1871- 2007, hitting within 60 miles of the
    city

    1. Cape Hatteras, North Carolina 2.49

    2. Delray Beach, Florida 2.54

    3. Hollywood, Florida 2.58

    4. Deerfield Beach, Florida 2.58

    5. Boca Raton, Florida 2.58

    6. Florida City, Florida 2.63

    7. Grand Isle, Louisiana 2.63

    8. Ft. Pierce, Florida 2.69

    9. Miami, Florida 2.69

    10. Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 2.69


    Top 10 Tornado states based on number of tornadoes per 10,000 square miles,
    occurring from 1953-2004

    1. Florida 9.4

    2. Oklahoma 8.2

    3. Kansas 6.7

    4. Iowa 6.6

    5. Illinois 6.2

    6. Indiana 6.1

    7. Mississippi 5.7

    8. Maryland 5.7

    9. Louisiana 5.6

    10. Texas 5.2


    Top 10 Thunderstorm Cities - Avg annual number of thunderstorms

    1. Fort Myers, Florida 89

    2. Tampa, Florida 87

    3. Tallahassee, Florida 83

    4. Gainesville, Florida 81

    5. Orlando, Florida 80

    6. Mobile, Alabama 79

    7. W. Palm Beach, Florida 79

    8. Lake Charles, Louisiana 76

    9. Daytona Beach, Florida 75

    10. Vero Beach, Florida 75


    Top 10 Tornado prone cities - Ranked by tornadoes per 1,000 miles

    1. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

    2. Tulsa, Oklahoma

    3. Dallas - Ft. Worth, Texas

    4. Wichita, Kansas

    5. Springfield, Missouri

    6. Kansas City, Kansas/Missouri

    7. Ft. Smith, Arkansas

    8. Little Rock, Arkansas

    9. Jackson, Mississippi

    10. Birmingham, Alabama


    Top 10
    Earthquake prone states based on number of earthquakes in the last 30
    years centered in the state

    1. Alaska

    2. California

    3. Hawaii

    4. Nevada

    5. Washington

    6. Idaho

    7. Wyoming

    8. Montana

    9. Utah

    10. Oregon


    10 all-time hottest temperatures - Obtained from state temperature records,
    NCDC

    1. Death Valley, California 134

    2. Lake Havasu, Arizona 128

    3. Laughlin, Nevada 125

    4. Lakewood, New Mexico 122

    5. Alton, Kansas 121

    6. Steele, North Dakota 121

    7. Ozark, Arkansas 120

    8. Tipton, Oklahoma 120

    9. Seymour, Texas 120

    10. Usta, South Dakota 120


    10 all-time coldest temperatures - Obtained from state temperature records,
    NCDC

    1. Prospect Creek, Alaska -80

    2. Rogers Pass, Montana -70

    3. Peters Sink, Utah -69

    4. Riverside, Wyoming -66

    5. Maybell, Colorado -61

    6. Tower, Minnesota -60

    7. Parshall, North Dakota -60

    8. Island Park Dam, Idaho -60

    9. McIntosh, South Dakota -58

    10. Couderay, Wisconsin -55


    10 hottest cities - Average annual temperature, F

    1. Key West, Florida 77.7

    2. Miami, Florida 75.6

    3. W Palm Beach, Florida 74.6

    4. Ft. Myers, Florida 73.9

    5. Yuma, Florida 73.9

    6. Brownsville, Texas 73.6

    7. Orlando, Florida 72.4

    8. Vero Beach, Florida 72.4

    9. Corpus Christi, Texas 72.1

    10. Tampa, Florida 72.0


    10 coldest cities - Average annual temperature, F

    1. International Falls, Minnesota 36.4

    2. Duluth, Minnesota 38.2

    3. Caribou, Maine 38.9

    4. Marquette, Michigan 39.2

    5. Sault Ste Marie, Michigan 39.7

    6. Fargo, North Dakota 40.5

    7. Williston, North Dakota 40.8

    8. Alamosa, Colorado 41.2

    9. Bismarck, North Dakota 41.3

    10. St. Cloud, Minnesota 41.4


    10 driest cities - Avg annual precipitation in inches

    1. Yuma, Arizona 2.65

    2. Las Vegas, Nevada 4.19

    3. Bishop, California 5.61

    4. Bakersfield, California 5.72

    5. Phoenix, Arizona 7.11

    6. Alamosa, Colorado 7.13

    7. Reno, California 7.49

    8. Winslow, Arizona 7.64

    9. El Paso, Texas 7.82

    10. Winnemucca, Nevada 7.82


    10 wettest cities - Avg annual precipitation in inches

    1. Hilo, Hawaii 128.00

    2. Quillayute, Washington 104.50

    3. Astoria, Oregon 69.60

    4. Blue Canyon, California 67.87

    5. Mobile, Alabama 64.64

    6. Tallahassee, Florida 64.59

    7. Pensacola, Florida 61.16

    8. New Orleans, Louisiana 59.74

    9. W Palm Beach, Florida 59.72

    10. Miami, Florida 59.55


    10 snowiest cities - Avg annual precipitation in inches

    1. Blue Canyon, California 240.8

    2. Marquette, Michigan 128.6

    3. Sault Ste Marie, Michigan 116.7

    4. Syracuse, New York 111.6

    5. Caribou, Maine 110.4

    6. Mount Shasta, California 104.9

    7. Lander, Wyoming 102.5

    8. Flagstaff, Arizona 99.9

    9. Sexton Summit, Oregon 97.8

    10. Muskegon, Michigan 97.0


    10 windiest cities - Avg annual wind speed in mph

    1. Blue Hill Observatory, Massachusetts 15.4

    2. Dodge City, Kansas 14.0

    3. Amarillo, Texas 13.5

    4. Rochester, Minnesota 13.1

    5. Casper, Wyoming 12.9

    6. Cheyenne, Wyoming 12.9

    7. Great Falls, Montana 12.7

    8. Goodland, Kansas 12.6

    9. Boston, Massachusetts 12.5

    10. Lubbock, Texas 12.4


    10 sunniest cities - Annual percent of possible sunshine

    1. Yuma, Arizona 90%

    2. Las Vegas, Nevada 85%

    3. Phoenix, Arizona 85%

    4. Tucson, Arizona 85%

    5. El Paso, Texas 83%

    6. Flagstaff, Arizona 79%

    7. Fresno, California 79%

    8. Reno, Nevada 79%

    9. Sacramento, California 78%

    10. Albuquerque, N.M. 76%


    10 cloudiest cities - Avg number of cloudy days per year

    1. Astoria, Oregon 240

    2. Quillayute, Washington 240

    3. Olympia, Washington 229

    4. Seattle, Washington 227

    5. Portland, Oregon 223

    6. Kalispell, Montana 213

    7. Binghamton, New York 212

    8. Beckley, West Virginia 211

    9. Elkins, West Virginia 211

    10. Eugene, Oregon 209


    10 most humid cities - Avg relative humidity in %

    1. Quillayute, Washington 83.0

    2. Olympia, Washington 78.0

    3. Port Arthur, Texas 77.5

    4. Lake Charles, Louisiana 77.0

    5. Apalachicola, Florida 76.5

    6. Gainesville, Florida 76.5

    7. Corpus Christi, Texas 76.0

    8. Eugene, Oregon 75.5

    9. New Orleans, Louisiana 75.5

    10. Houston, Texas 75.0


    10 least humid cities - Avg relative humidity in %

    1. Las Vegas, Nevada 30.5

    2. Phoenix, Arizona 37.0

    3. Yuma, Arizona 38.0

    4. Tucson, Arizona 39.0

    5. El Paso, Texas 42.5

    6. Albuquerque, New Mexico 44.5

    7. Winslow, Arizona 46.0

    8. Grand Junction, Colorado 48.0

    9. Winnemucca, Nevada 48.5

    10. Reno, Nevada 50.5


    10 rainiest cities based on number of days per year with rain

    1. Hilo, Hawaii 277

    2. Quillayute, Washington 210

    3. Astoria, Oregon 191

    4. Elkins, West Virginia 171

    5. Syracuse, New York 171

    6. Buffalo, New York 169

    7. Marquette, Michigan 168

    8. Sault Ste Marie, Michigan 166

    9. Erie, Pennsylvania 165

    10. Binghamton, New York 162


    10 least rainy cities based on number of days per year with rain

    1. Yuma, Arizona 17

    2. Las Vegas, Nevada 26

    3. Bishop, California 29

    4. Santa Barbara, California 30

    5. Long Beach, California 32

    6. Los Angeles, California 35

    7. Great Falls, Montana 35

    8. Phoenix, Arizona 36

    9. Bakersfield, California 37

    10. San Diego, California 42


    Largest annual temperature variation based on change in average temperature
    between summer and winter

    1. Fairbanks, Alaska 90.8

    2. Bettles, Alaska 90.0

    3. International Falls, MN 88.8

    4. Fargo, North Dakota 87

    5. Williston, North Dakota 86.6

    6. Aberdeen, South Dakota 86.5

    7. McGrath, Alaska 86.2

    8. Bismarck, North Dakota 86.1

    9. Alamosa, Colorado 85.9

    10. St. Cloud, Minnesota 85


    10 most uncomfortable cities based on average combination of summer heat and humidity

    1. Phoenix, Arizona

    2. Corpus Christi, Texas

    3. San Antonio, Texas

    4. Dallas, Texas

    5. West Palm Beach, Florida

    6. Miami, Florida

    7. Waco, Texas

    8. Houston, Texas

    9. Montgomery, Alabama

    10. New Orleans, Louisiana


    Top 10 clean air cities based on long-term particle pollution

    1. Cheyenne, Wyoming

    2. Santa Fe, New Mexico

    3. Honolulu, Hawaii

    4. Great Falls, Montana

    5. Tucson, Arizona

    6. Anchorage, Alaska

    7. Farmington, New Mexico

    8. Bismarck, North Dakota

    9. Albuquerque, New Mexico

    10. Rapid City, South Dakota


    Top 10 dirty air cities based on long-term particle pollution

    1. Los Angeles, California

    2. Bakersfield, California

    3. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

    4. Visalia, California

    5. Fresno, California

    6. Detroit, Michigan

    7. Hanford, California

    8. Cleveland, Ohio

    9. Atlanta, Georgia

    10. Chicago, Illinois


    Best cities for allergies based on pollen counts from 1999-2002

    1. Grand Rapids, Michigan

    2. Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    3. Seattle, Washington

    4. San Francisco, California

    5. Minneapolis, Minnesota

    6. Chicago, Illinois

    7. Syracuse, New York

    8. Salt Lake City, Utah

    9. Los Angeles, California

    10. Denver, Colorado


    Worst cities for allergies based on pollen counts from 1999-20002

    1. Kansas City, Mo/Ks

    2. Louisville, Kentucky

    3. Tampa/St. Pete, Florida

    4. Tulsa, Oklahoma

    5. Atlanta, Georgia

    6. Austin, Texas

    7. St. Louis, Missouri

    8. Sacramento, California

    9. Orlando, Florida

    10. Indianapolis, Indiana


    Chart data sources: The National Climatic Data Center, Riskmeter Online,
    Hurricane City , Weatherpages.com, National Lung Association, Sperling's
    Best Places

    Fastest warming: 12 hour warm-up: 83 degrees. From -33 in the morning to
    50 by late afternoon in Granville, North Dakota, on February 21, 1918 15
    minute warm-up: 42 degrees. From -5 to 37 degrees in Fort Assiniboine,
    Montana, on January 19, 1893 7 minute warm-up: 34 degrees in Kipp, Montana,
    in 1896

    Fastest Cooling: 24 hour chill: 100 degrees. From 44 to -54 below zero in
    Browning, Montana, on January 23-24, 1916. 12 hour chill: 84 degrees..\
    From 63 to -21 below zero in Fairfield, Montana, on December 24, 1924. 2
    hour chill: 62 degrees. From 49 at 6:00am to -13 at 8:00am in Rapid City,
    South Dakota, on January 10, 1911 15 minute chill: 47 degrees. >From 55 at
    7:00am to 8 at 7:15am in Rapid City , South Dakota on January 10, 1911

    Interesting U.S. weather facts:

    Through August 2007, the U.S. experienced its hottest year ever. During the
    month of August, more than 8,000 new heat maximum and minimum records were
    set or tied across the country.

    In Hawaii, where surface temperatures are always above 50F, there is snow.
    Between 1 and 2 feet of snow falls each year in the mountains above 5,000
    feet.

    The coldest football game ever played was the NFL Championship Game on
    December 31, 1967, in Green Bay, Wisconsin, between the Green Bay Packers
    and Dallas Cowboys, when the temperature fell to -13. The 2007 NFC
    Championship game in Green Bay, between the New York Giants and Green Bay
    Packers was the third coldest game in history with a temperature of -1 and
    wind chill of -23.

    The longest rain-free period in the United States was 767 days (2 years, 37
    days), from October 3, 1912, to November 8, 1914, at Bagdad, CA.

    A world record rainfall occurred at Holt, Missouri, on June 22, 1947, when
    it rained 12 inches in just 42 minutes. This averages to over 1/4 of an inch
    of rainfall per minute. On July 4th, 1956, in Unionville, Maryland, 1.23
    inches of rain fell in 1 minute.

    The average yearly temperature of New York, St. Louis and San
    Francisco differs by only 1.8F degrees.

    Which is the least rainy city - Seattle, New York City or Miami? Although on
    average Seattle is cloudy 227 days a year, it only receives 39 inches of
    rain per year, compared to New York City (42 inches) and Miami (60 inches).

    Is Chicago really "The Windy City?" Of the 262 major weather reporting
    stations in the United States, 27% or 72 stations average higher annual wind
    speeds than Chicago, which averages 10.3 mph. For example, New York City 's
    annual wind speed is 12.2 mph.

    Due to Florida's proximity to the equator, the state receives more than a
    hundred times the UV exposure that Maine does.

    Cheyenne, Wyoming, averages the most hail storms in the United States per
    year with 10 and Tulsa, Oklahoma, experiences the most severe hail storms
    annually.

    The United States leads the world with an average of over 1,000 reported
    tornadoes each year. A distant second is Canada with an average of
    approximately 100 reported tornadoes.

    Kansas has received the most F5 tornadoes since 1880. Oklahoma encounters
    the highest number of significant and violent tornadoes per square mile. Of
    the total reported tornadoes in the United States each year, 20 can be
    expected to be F5 tornadoes, with winds over 200 mph and nearly complete
    destruction.




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