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  1. #33

    Re: Know your proofs of God

    This is very strange. Jesus makes specific promises of the Bible as the prayer should work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God answers prayers. And Christians believe Jesus - according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible literally true." In some areas, the number should be higher than 75%.

  2. #34
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    An atheist Professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, the Almighty. He asks one of his newMuslim students to stand and…..
    Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?
    Student: Yes, sir.
    Professor: So you believe in God?
    Student: Absolutely, Sir.
    Professor: Is God good?
    Student: Sure.
    Professor: Is God all-powerful?
    Student: Yes.
    Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
    (Student is silent)
    Professor: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is God good?
    Student: Yes.
    Professor: Is Satan good?
    Student: No.
    Professor: Where does Satan come from?
    Student: From…God…
    Professor: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
    Student: Yes.
    Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make
    everything. Correct?
    Student: Yes.
    Professor: So who created evil?
    (Student does not answer)
    Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
    Student: Yes, sir.
    Professor: So, who created them?
    (Student has no answer)
    Professor: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son…Have you ever seen God?
    Student: No, sir.
    Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
    Student: No, Sir.
    Professor: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
    Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
    Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?
    Student: Yes.
    Professor: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
    Student: Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
    Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student: And is there such a thing as cold?
    Professor: Yes.
    Student: No sir. There isn't.
    (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events)
    Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is ******. Cold is not the opposite of heat, Sir, just the absence of it.
    (There us a pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre)
    Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
    Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
    Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light….But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness, darker, wouldn't you?
    Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man?
    Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
    Professor: Flawed? Can you explain how?
    Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.
    Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they *****ed from a monkey?
    Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
    Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
    (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going)
    Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going Endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
    (The class is uproar)
    Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
    (The class breaks out into laughter)
    Student: Is there anyone here, who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it…No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, Sir.
    With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

  3. #35
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    In a way you are contradicting yourself.

    Mind can only know, understandd and experience PART of the whole.

    And then you say



    You can study swimming for a lifetime but you will NEVER know it if you don't get wet and swim yourself.

    There is a grand difference between knowing something in theory or through experience.

    I believe we incarnated here to have experience of things one can only know in theory without a body.
    Astute observation. However, what I was referring to with respect to Objective self awareness is the ability to step away from oneself and obverse the self as if it where separate from the self. In this way, we react to the world around us by being "objective," thus removing ourselves from subjective experiences.
    Last edited by Cnance; 03-12-2011 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #36
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by marshanthony View Post
    This is very strange. Jesus makes specific promises of the Bible as the prayer should work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God answers prayers. And Christians believe Jesus - according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible literally true." In some areas, the number should be higher than 75%.
    I know this is a tough read on the gospels, but here it is. Read Bart Ehrman's books on the New Testament. The gospels were written 35 to 75 years after Jesus was murdered, by Greeks, not Jews or disciples; written in Greek not Hebrew, and by men who had never been to the "promise land." Thus, because of their ignorance, we have different accounts of the early life of Jesus and the events of His death.

    Read Revelation 11. That is the true account of Jesus, the Lord God. JESUS WAS THE LORD GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT.

    To avoid the consequences of Murdering God, the gospel writers and Paul made up a cover story. They made up stories to promote a new religion.

    Now, as we enter the final days of earth, we'll witness the consequences of murdering God. They'll be no rapture, no glorious salvation for humankind, no social justice for martyrs. For humankind, actions have consequences.

  5. #37
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnance View Post
    Astute observation. However, what I was referring to with respect to Objective self awareness is the ability to step away from oneself and obverse the self as if it where separate from the self. In this way, we can see how we react to the world around us. In this way, we are doing the best to be "objective," thus removing ourselves from subjective experiences.
    I have done that and I do that often. Too often maybe. I found that its a resonance. Like your biorithms you find there are times to orbit out and times to remain grounded.

    Yet I firmly believe we came here to experience what we know in theory. So we cannot orbit out all the time. Thats escapism. Most of the new-ager love and light brigades want to be high on spirituality. Its so much more fun to be earthed in it.

    But being high is also cool. It keeps them meek and socially "not a problem" to anyone.

    In my model of reality we made most of our choices since before conception.I don't think we came here to escape here.I think we came here to be here.

    (Harry Houdini lives :spin2:)

  6. #38
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by reggie88wilder View Post
    Doubting God is one of my biggest problems in day to day life. I have a mind that never stops thinking "what if..." "then this is that...and if that's that then this has to be..." "if God exists why..." "how this be true if God exists..." etc. it's kind of an obsession. I've prayed for firm hope and faith and I'm starting to accept that I'll never get a personal letter signed from God Himself saying "I'm here, it's true.
    Fortunately, I never had that problem. My parents went to church on Sundays and I went to Bible Class, but I had a science-minded older brother and grew up with science. I moved out of the church and have never looked back. It all seems right to me. I don't waste time praying for world peace because it is a prayer that is never answered. I fear death no more than anyone else, and my morals are good enough that I devoted much of my time researching social science and finding answers to why our society is now in such poor condition.

    Why not take a look at it in my webpage? You might find a new way of thinking that would replace all that unsertainty you have.
    Brough,
    civilization-overview.com

  7. #39
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by charles brough View Post
    Fortunately, I never had that problem. My parents went to church on Sundays and I went to Bible Class, but I had a science-minded older brother and grew up with science. I moved out of the church and have never looked back. It all seems right to me. I don't waste time praying for world peace because it is a prayer that is never answered. I fear death no more than anyone else, and my morals are good enough that I devoted much of my time researching social science and finding answers to why our society is now in such poor condition.

    Why not take a look at it in my webpage? You might find a new way of thinking that would replace all that unsertainty you have.
    Interesting book.

    Tell me what do you think of the ideology that the Zeitgeist movement put out there for the future?

  8. #40
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by reggie88wilder View Post
    Doubting God is one of my biggest problems in day to day life. I have a mind that never stops thinking "what if..." "then this is that...and if that's that then this has to be..." "if God exists why..." "how this be true if God exists..." etc. it's kind of an obsession. I've prayed for firm hope and faith and I'm starting to accept that I'll never get a personal letter signed from God Himself saying "I'm here, it's true.
    OK, finally someone with a pair of balls to say that she has questions and sometimes may not be buying all the Bull. That makes me think about gravity....it too won't be sending you any personally signed letter attesting to it's existence... and like God, it too will give you dire consequences if you should , say, accidentally fall off, jump of your own accord, from the Brooklyn Bridge without any chute on your body.

    God is of the opinion that if you think there will be no consequence and or benefit for believing in HIM then go right ahead.... live your life as you please...the newspapers will tell the final story, ( The Hell Gazette, The Heavenly Journal ).

    This is what I was taught to answer you when I was under the GodSpell.

    PM me and I will tell you how :rotz:I would answer under the NewSpell.
    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved."

    -Tim Minchin



    I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.

    -Isaac Asimov





  9. #41
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSandman View Post
    OK, finally someone with a pair of balls to say that she has questions and sometimes may not be buying all the Bull. That makes me think about gravity....it too won't be sending you any personally signed letter attesting to it's existence... and like God, it too will give you dire consequences if you should , say, accidentally fall off, jump of your own accord, from the Brooklyn Bridge without any chute on your body.

    God is of the opinion that if you think there will be no consequence and or benefit for believing in HIM then go right ahead.... live your life as you please...the newspapers will tell the final story, ( The Hell Gazette, The Heavenly Journal ).

    This is what I was taught to answer you when I was under the GodSpell.

    PM me and I will tell you how :rotz:I would answer under the NewSpell.
    What is the relation between God and traffic? They both don't concern themself as to wether you believe in them or not. They simply "happen" and thy don't bother to leave any evidence behind.

  10. #42
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    What is the relation between God and traffic? They both don't concern themself as to wether you believe in them or not. They simply "happen" and thy don't bother to leave any evidence behind.
    OK, without having mentioned the Christian God ( Dad, Son, and the presence of the godhead on the Earth, the "Holy Spirit" ) I can see why you would not know what I was "relating" to.

    The concept is very simple
    1. Do right and obey the laws or
    2. violate them, at will or otherwise, and suffer the consequences.

    There is no other basis to promote the idea of gravity/ C.Godhead .
    It just is and has it's own laws that you either learn to understand or you can dismiss them at your peril or your "Freedom" ( as in the case of ignoring the power of gravity and putting into effect the law of "lift" and soaring as high and even higher than those "Godly" eagles :o)

    I sought to lift myself above and beyond the grand delusion of a Deity....and I now soar higher than all my wildest expectations and can see much clearer from this height.

    I don't know if this helps you understand my original reply to the young lady.
    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved."

    -Tim Minchin



    I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.

    -Isaac Asimov





  11. #43
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSandman View Post
    OK, without having mentioned the Christian God ( Dad, Son, and the presence of the godhead on the Earth, the "Holy Spirit" ) I can see why you would not know what I was "relating" to.

    The concept is very simple
    1. Do right and obey the laws or
    2. violate them, at will or otherwise, and suffer the consequences.

    There is no other basis to promote the idea of gravity/ C.Godhead .
    It just is and has it's own laws that you either learn to understand or you can dismiss them at your peril or your "Freedom" ( as in the case of ignoring the power of gravity and putting into effect the law of "lift" and soaring as high and even higher than those "Godly" eagles :o)

    I sought to lift myself above and beyond the grand delusion of a Deity....and I now soar higher than all my wildest expectations and can see much clearer from this height.

    I don't know if this helps you understand my original reply to the young lady.
    I may understand you more clearly than it would appear.

    I use the term God very loosely. Sometimes I use it to speak another's language in way they would better understand. But often I use it in my mythological context to put a name on "all that is".

    To me God is NOT a deity in fact you might as well say I am a non-god believer because the way I see it God is everything or maybe I can say God is nature. In that sense god is completely unconditional and not really an approachable deity.

    I heal sometimes and I call on the e nergy of the universe to do so. To me that is "channeling " nature or channeling God force.

    But it could have any any other name. The essence of everything that is. Which includes me and you btw and that is why the eastern s say Namasté and it literally means. "The God in me can recognize and appreciate the God in you"

    So to all you sentient beings out there I say:

    Namasté

  12. #44
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by BibianaBurke View Post
    Jag boy, honey:, you just know you're betrayed by your own world view. You pray boy, even if you're only praying for fun. You pray, just once, even for fun and the Lord God above is gonna change your heart. I challenge you to pray boy, just once. And you come back to me and tell me what the Lord did to your heart. If He wants you, He'll get you and there's nothing you can do.:
    What if I pray, but the Lord doesn't want me? How do I know he heard me, but he decided not to want me?
    "Farewell, all joys! O Death, come close mine eyes!
    "More Geese than Swans now live, more Fools than Wise."

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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by eugene66 View Post
    Interesting book.

    Tell me what do you think of the ideology that the Zeitgeist movement put out there for the future?

    It can be translated as "the Age of Modern thinking," but I was disappointed when I looked it up. It resembles Marxism in that it is against capitalism and has the ideal of phasing out government. An ideology that sets up such goals as replacing capitalism and government not only misses the goals we really need---eg. the colonizing of space, limiting population, building a new civilization, etc.---it sets goals that would destroy society to just the extent they were implemented.

    East Asian Marxism survives only because it's Marxist thinking secularized a little and moved from "down with capitalism" to employing it and from "down with government" to strengthing it. Even so, it still has ideological flaws that will doom it. The Zeitgeist-Movement ideology has even more flaws.

    Moreover, neither the Zeitgeist or Marxist ideology has a moral code and, hence, no moral means to improve the moral fiber of the society. Marxist China has big such problems. A Zeitgeist-ideology society and state would have even more of them.
    Brough,
    civilization-overview.com

  14. #46
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    Re: Know your proofs of God

    Quote Originally Posted by charles brough View Post
    It can be translated as "the Age of Modern thinking," but I was disappointed when I looked it up. It resembles Marxism in that it is against capitalism and has the ideal of phasing out government. An ideology that sets up such goals as replacing capitalism and government not only misses the goals we really need---eg. the colonizing of space, limiting population, building a new civilization, etc.---it sets goals that would destroy society to just the extent they were implemented.

    East Asian Marxism survives only because it's Marxist thinking secularized a little and moved from "down with capitalism" to employing it and from "down with government" to strengthing it. Even so, it still has ideological flaws that will doom it. The Zeitgeist-Movement ideology has even more flaws.

    Moreover, neither the Zeitgeist or Marxist ideology has a moral code and, hence, no moral means to improve the moral fiber of the society. Marxist China has big such problems. A Zeitgeist-ideology society and state would have even more of them.
    Dont listen to other peoples interpretations of what it is. Look at this video and then tell me what you think.

    Zeitgeist: Addendum - 2008 by Peter Joseph from ZeitgeistMovie.com on Vimeo.


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